Hall going #1?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Saying Seguin pulled a Problem is a bit harsh.  He's the main reason Plymouth topped the Soo and he was neck and neck with Hall in scoring through the first round.  The Whalers got harpooned by the #3 ranked team in the country - a team that has not only two of the top 4 picks in this year's draft, but first-rounders from previous drafts in Ryan Ellis and Zack Kassian and Team Canada WJHC players Adam Henrique and Greg Nemisz.  They keyed on him mercilessly.  And yeah, Ovechkin was shut down on the WJHC stage more than once when teams keyed on him and made his life miserable. 

    Chowdah - I'm not disagreeing or suggesting for one second that Hall shouldn't be the pick because he might get injured.  But I do wonder if you can teach him to protect himself a bit better and delay the inevitable.  I'd hate to see his injuries start early and occur often.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlueChip99. Show BlueChip99's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Hall and Seguin are much the same level. But I would take Seguin, precisely because the Bruins history is full of  players like Hall with a too brief career here.

    Be effective, knowing avoid serious injury, is also part of what `s called the hockey sense. That`s why Michael Schumacher has been the greatest driver that the Formula One has ever have.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    Saying Seguin pulled a Problem is a bit harsh.  He's the main reason Plymouth topped the Soo and he was neck and neck with Hall in scoring through the first round.  The Whalers got harpooned by the #3 ranked team in the country - a team that has not only two of the top 4 picks in this year's draft, but first-rounders from previous drafts in Ryan Ellis and Zack Kassian and Team Canada WJHC players Adam Henrique and Greg Nemisz.  They keyed on him mercilessly.  And yeah, Ovechkin was shut down on the WJHC stage more than once when teams keyed on him and made his life miserable.  Chowdah - I'm not disagreeing or suggesting for one second that Hall shouldn't be the pick because he might get injured.  But I do wonder if you can teach him to protect himself a bit better and delay the inevitable.  I'd hate to see his injuries start early and occur often.
    Posted by Bookboy007

    bookboy , the injury part of his game is something he'll find out for himself once he reaches the NHL. There will be some things he just won't be able to do in the NHL that he was doing in the OHL. Bigger, faster, tougher and meaner players. But he'll adapt no doubt because besides his talent this kid is a smart hockey player. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    GOAT, you hit my concern with Hall right on the nose.  He is reckless with his body - that's one of the things you have to love about the way he plays.  But he gets just abused from time to time.  It's one thing to get abused in the OHL, and another when the abuser is 6'5" 230 of NHL nutrition and muscle.  Love watching him play, so I can't say I'd be disappointed if Boston does get him, but given the Bruins' history of injured stars, I'll be hoping Karma's in his favour. And because I can't resist - The problem played 5 min a night as a rookie because he was lost.  Not fast enough, not engaged enough, not learning the system fast enough.  Lost.  He should have been in the Soo, but there wasn't much left for him to accomplish in Jr. and he was too lazy to really push himself to dominate.  He was soft then just as he's soft now, it if the Sharks didn't have Clowe and Pavelski and that "second line" group of players who sell out for their team, Jumbo No-Show would be golfing.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    I agree with you about 'the problem', and he sure is  Jumbo No show.  But in his first year with the Bruins they were trying to go slow with him and 'groom him' as a franchise player, that's why he got the limited minutes.  That's why he got the 5 minutes of ice.  He was way out of place in jrs, he does have a ton of talent - and just a few ounces of motivation. 

    I think California suits Joe, he does surf, doesn't he?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    They said the reason he played 5 min a game was that they were grooming him, but every time he was on the ice he looked confused and unable to keep up.  If they'd exposed him to the NHL full throttle, he'd have had his doors blown off.  I seem to recall Burns saying more than once that if he can't at least cover his responsibilities in his own end, a coach can't put him on the ice. He didn't understand that talent isn't enough.  All those cliched interviews where players say they have to work harder than the other team?  They aren't just blowing smoke.  The Problem never got that, really.  He found out how hard he had to work to collect the big paycheque and settled in; that's why he thinks he's not The Problem.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    Believe it or not, Edmonton has a very talented team, perhaps even more talented than a few of these playoff teams. Ales Hemsky, Dustin Penner, Sam Gagner, Andrew Cogliano, Shawn Horcoff, Sheldon Souray, Tom Gilbert and formerly Dennis Grebeshkov are skilled players who are capable of playing on the top two lines of nearly any team in the league. Khabibulin is a good goaltender when healthy, but his injury is part of what tanked this team. If Edmonton can get Seguin and manage to draft one of the better defensemen in the draft then they'll have two leaders added onto their extensive list of quality prospects (in my opinion they have arguably the deepest prospect depth in the league).  Posted by joeschmo25


    Hemsky is dynamic, but not always committed. Penner is Wheeler.  Gagner may never be fast enough to really compete.  Cogliano has yet to convince me there's production behind his "potential", Horcoff looks like a one or two year wonder who was riding chemistry with Hemsky (a bit like Craig Conroy in Calgary) who has faded fast.  Souray's done or in steep decline.  Gilbert is Tom Poti.  Count me as one of those people who doesn't think Jordan Eberle will be a first line scorer in the NHL.  I mean, great nose for the net in the biggest games - but how will he compete in mid-January?  I think they could be in for a long road back to relevance.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    yaz, to answer this question... "Whose to say Windsor has a better team vs that Hall has brought out the best from all of his team mates?" Anyone and everyone who knows anything about the OHL says that Windsor is miles ahead of any other team in the OHL.
    Posted by Reilly24


    Reilly agree with you on the Hall statement making HIS teammates better. Also although I do think that Windsor is the team to beat ,the Colts are looking pretty good losing only 1 game in the playoffs so far and having the best record in the OHL this year. So I don't think they are miles apart . I'm thinking it's going to go 6 or 7 games. ( just a guess )
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    No offense to anyone, but, in the grand scheme of things Edmonton is the team that has to make the choice.  The Bruins are in a reaction mode, seemingly in the perfect position of taking the course of fate.  If the Bruins deal with Edmonton the inside information I would understand would be to bring Bobby Orr back into the minds of so many of us who became fans in those now days of lore. Hall is dynamic but Seguin is not a drop off in potential.  Personally it is the best of worlds in this draft.  The analysis above indicates the Bruins are best with centers yet the need is wing.  What else would you want given the second pick.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Seguin will be the better player in the NHL.  The scouts haven't been wrong yet this decade.  He may not have the offensive polish that Hall does right now, but that will come in another year or so and his 2-way game, quickness, skill and hockey sense are far superior to Hall's at this point in their respective careers.  I've seen both play as sophmores, there's no comparison, Seguin makes Hall look like a late first rounder.

    And people on these boards who say they're just "stating the obvious", that Hall's the better player, without supporting their observations with facts, are only giving their opinion.  And we all know what they say about opinions.  I know the scouting service sure does.  The last ten years of 1 and 2 bear that out.

    If Edmonton's smart, they'll take Seguin.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Pierre Mcguire says alot of things.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wil39. Show wil39's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    WHO CARES we will all find out in June who goes 1 & 2, it's Playoff time, the best time of the year for hockey! 

    BTW, I agree with bim09, Pierre says a lot.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Notex. Show Notex's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    Keep in mind that Hall was on a better team than Sequin. Sequin did more with less. This will be 1 and 1a, not 1 and 2 in the draft
    Posted by davecarr

    Davecarr,

    Does this mean Stamkos is a better player than Crosby because he had comparable stats and was on a worse team?

    I totally see where you are coming from on the "he was on a better team" - because I have made this arguement myself...

    Just a thought!

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DallasSmith. Show DallasSmith's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    I think it is too early to project where either Hall or Seguin will fit as far as lines go.They will have to earn there ice time at the NHL level.I think the Bruins brought Thornton along slow because they had to.It was pretty evident early on that Thornton wasn't ready for prime time and had to be groomed slowly on the 4th line.Hopefully that won't be the case for either Hall or Seguin .
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Hall makes things happen. You need a clutch goal? no problem. He wants to score and he wants to win.

    Seguin though surrounded by 5 spitfire players didn't know how to "win" . IF you have three guys hovering on you then you get the puck to your teammates. I saw a few games and he played less than intense hockey. He was not man handled more than he didn't bring the extra intensity needed

    Hall will increase his intensity to NHL level in the OHL which is a scary thought because in the NHL level we won't know how much higher he could be able to turn it up ala gretzky, crosby etc.

    Seguin is talented but his intensity level and ability to jack it up is in question.

    He will be a decent nhl player via talent alone. He will get u 70 pts plus a season but i'm not too confident what he can do for u via playoffs.

    Edmonton will draft Hall #1. We better just pray seguin will not turn out to be another Hamill.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    lol, Seguin was injured during the playoffs with a groin.  Maybe you might want to go back and ppv some of his healthy games during the season when he single-handedly carried his team to victory after victory.  He probably injured himself because he was trying so hard.  Isn't that how Bergy tweaked his groin in Vancouver?

    Hall sophmore year 174 points, loaded Cup team
    Seguin sophmore year 173 points, solo

    S'all i need to know.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    Seguin will be the better player in the NHL.  The scouts haven't been wrong yet this decade.  He may not have the offensive polish that Hall does right now, but that will come in another year or so and his 2-way game, quickness, skill and hockey sense are far superior to Hall's at this point in their respective careers.  I've seen both play as sophmores, there's no comparison, Seguin makes Hall look like a late first rounder. And people on these boards who say they're just "stating the obvious", that Hall's the better player, without supporting their observations with facts, are only giving their opinion.  And we all know what they say about opinions.  I know the scouting service sure does.  The last ten years of 1 and 2 bear that out. If Edmonton's smart, they'll take Seguin.
    Posted by bim09

    Just like some posters stated the obvious about Bergeron ? Seguin makes Hall look like a late first rounder as sophomores ? C'mon bim I like reading your posts but sometimes you make outrageous statements that are hard to take. Bergeron and now this statement . You said observations and opinions were stated but no facts were given. How about MVP of the Memorial Cup in his sophomore year. Is this a good enough fact for you ? Does this make him a late 1st rounder compared to Seguin in his sophomore year ?  I have formed my opinion about these two great young players by watching them whenever they play on tv ( seen about 50 games between the two this year alone, just wondering how many have you seen bim out where you live ?) not by reading about them and seeing the odd game like others. That would be like me debating with you about players from the 'Q' , I wouldn't have much of a say about them. I'd defer to guys like you who have seen them. P.S The scouting service forgot about Matt Duchene ( finalist for Calder, no Tavares #1 and Hedman #2) as a #1 or #2 last year so I guess that refutes your earlier FACT about scouting services #1 and #2 picks bearing out in the last ten years. You don't have to agree with my opinion but at least respect the fact that it is formed by my own eyes not by others (media).
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjcaesar. Show kjcaesar's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    I think both of them will be great players, so let's just take whoever is left.

      
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    lol, Seguin was injured during the playoffs with a groin.  Maybe you might want to go back and ppv some of his healthy games during the season when he single-handedly carried his team to victory after victory.  He probably injured himself because he was trying so hard.  Isn't that how Bergy tweaked his groin in Vancouver? Hall sophmore year 174 points, loaded Cup team Seguin sophmore year 173 points, solo S'all i need to know.
    Posted by bim09


    why can't you and some of you get that it was the OHL regular season? Martin St pierre once scored 40 plus goals and 100 plus points and look at where he is now. The world juniors and playoffs is where you have to shine more. OHL playoff hockey could translate a bit better to regular season nhl hockey. The regular ohl season is almost playground shinny hockey. Guys throw the puck at the net from just inside the offensive zone line to score. Most goalies are pretty mediocre.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Not sure what your point is yaz.  Both Hall and Seguin are in the OHL, and they were neck and neck for points (though I assume Hall played fewer games b/c he played WJHC).  They played the same shinny and the same rec league goalies.  Through one round of the OHL playoffs, they were tied for points.  I'm guessing your point is that Seguin isn't as intense as Hall, and I don't think anyone disputes that, but Joe Sakic wasn't as intense as Hall, Adam Oates wasn't as intense as Hall, Brett Hull wasn't as intense as Hall. One reason fans will gravitate toward Hall regardless of scouting is that he's always attacking, but it's easy to confuse that kind of relentless style with being a better player - and it's not always the case.

    Hardly fair to compare an over-aged, 4th year player in St. Pierre to either guy.  You should know better.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    I definitely don't want to see PC do anything with the Bruins own #1 and TOs #2 he has just to move up unless he can send some salary Edmonton's way (Ryder) but I don't see that happening unless Tamballeni n Chiarelli bring in a 3rd team.

    I have no problem with either the question is will be Sauve or Colborne or both moving to wing. This is like the Red Sox with there depth at pitching now. The Bruins have a ton of up n comers at center and that is also fine with me. It's really good to have this problem and falls into what Chiarelli loves Bruins fighting for ice time.

    Me thinks Tambellini will take Hall is my prediction but I also picked the Devils in 5 against the Flyers. Once again I'm fine with either Hall or Seguin! This draft will define PC in a good way.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Edmonton needs a center, but the flip side is that Hall is from Alberta. Too close to call which way they'll go.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Chowdah - Can't really say that the CSS missed Duchene when he was ranked 3rd.  And you can't overlook the fact that all of the rookies up for the Calder were on playoff teams - 5th seed or higher, in fact.  Each of them was vital to the cause, sure, but Duchene benefitted from playing on an Avs team that only really needed quality goaltending to rebound.  Tavares and Hedman went to much worse teams.  Hedman was injured for parts of the year, and I think Tavares and Duchene had roughly the same stats. Using your preference for eyes over numbers, I'd say Tavares's presence on the ice was more prominent for the Isles than Duchene's for the Avs, too.

    I respect the fact that you've been to the games, but I do think it's worth remembering that we, as amateur scouts, can get fooled by our eyes as easily as by numbers.  I know I've been fooled both directions - players in junior I've seen dozens of times and expected to see star in the NHL disappear in the German Bundesliga, and guys I think are too slow and plodding turn into core players.  Basically, you learn something about these guys in all sorts of ways, and you never know where the most important data will come from.  There's a reason scouts grill these guys endlessly and interview their coaches etc.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    Oh by the way, Taylor Hall already played for Boston.

    1987-88Boston Bruins7gp0g0a0p4pim


    Meh.  Hardly impressive.  I say take Seguin if this is all you'd get from Hall.

    Tongue out
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Notex. Show Notex's posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    In Response to Re: Hall going #1? : why can't you and some of you get that it was the OHL regular season? Martin St pierre once scored 40 plus goals and 100 plus points and look at where he is now. The world juniors and playoffs is where you have to shine more. OHL playoff hockey could translate a bit better to regular season nhl hockey. The regular ohl season is almost playground shinny hockey. Guys throw the puck at the net from just inside the offensive zone line to score. Most goalies are pretty mediocre.
    Posted by yaz16

    Martin St Pierre spent like 5 seasons in the OHL...not comparable if you ask me - Just looked it up - his sophmore season in the OHL he had 85 points.. not bad but no where close to the numbers that Seguin/Hall are...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Hall going #1?

    In Response to Re: Hall going #1?:
    Chowdah - Can't really say that the CSS missed Duchene when he was ranked 3rd.  And you can't overlook the fact that all of the rookies up for the Calder were on playoff teams - 5th seed or higher, in fact.  Each of them was vital to the cause, sure, but Duchene benefitted from playing on an Avs team that only really needed quality goaltending to rebound.  Tavares and Hedman went to much worse teams.  Hedman was injured for parts of the year, and I think Tavares and Duchene had roughly the same stats. Using your preference for eyes over numbers, I'd say Tavares's presence on the ice was more prominent for the Isles than Duchene's for the Avs, too. I respect the fact that you've been to the games, but I do think it's worth remembering that we, as amateur scouts, can get fooled by our eyes as easily as by numbers.  I know I've been fooled both directions - players in junior I've seen dozens of times and expected to see star in the NHL disappear in the German Bundesliga, and guys I think are too slow and plodding turn into core players.  Basically, you learn something about these guys in all sorts of ways, and you never know where the most important data will come from.  There's a reason scouts grill these guys endlessly and interview their coaches etc.
    Posted by Bookboy007

    bookboy, as far as me saying referring to Duchene being missed by the scouts , you kind of missed part of the conversation I was having with bim . He was saying the scouting services have gotten it right the last 10 years with the 1&2 picks . That's why I threw in Duchene because in my eyes ( I know you don't agree ) he has been better than both Tavares and Hedman who were picked #1 & 2. And as far as Duchene going to a team that was MUCH worse than the other two , have to disagree. Colorado finished 3rd from the bottom . That's not exactly a good team in my opinion whether you say all that they needed was a goalie or not. Looks like voters for the Calder also disagree with Tavares' presence on the ice being greater then Duchenes' . This an individual award not a team award so team success shouldn't being taken into consideration.
     
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