Horton close to being a Bruin?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NumbaFouwer. Show NumbaFouwer's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : If this speculation that you present turns out to be true, do you then draft BC over Gudbranson or Fowler since you didn't include someone like Wideman or Ference in the package?
    Posted by Hockguy0818


    It sounds like PC wants one of those top D. Thus maybe he takes Fowler or Gormley, and then trades Wideman in a separate deal later on. But once again, pure speculation.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TuukkainNet. Show TuukkainNet's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    I think the Kessel comparison is really far off....the guy is a work out freak.  I think if remember correctly he actually lived with the teams trainer in his first two off seasons....Kessel is a jellydonut who was gifted with an ability to skate and snipe.  The best comment about Horton was that he can look incredible for a few games and then disappear completely (yes Ryder like).  I think he is a much better player then Ryder but like I said...how I feel about a deal like this would matter what we send in return.  Horton has never played in a good system or with talent...it is a little interesting to think of him with Savvy and Lucic or even Krejci.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    I like Horton. He can put the puck in the net . Some say that commenting on Horton's abilities without living in the region is going by the 'they said' theory . Hasn't this poster ever heard of the tv and NHL center ice package ? He is exactly the type of player that this goal starved team needs. I have followed Horton's career since watching him in junior B and have liked his talents ( skating and shot ). IMO if put with Savard we could see our top goal scorer for years to come. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    "Put him with Savard..." needs to be put to rest.  They put Ryder with Savard, and that didn't work.  They put Sturm with Savard and that didn't work.  Both guys were 25+ goal scorers before they played with Savard.  Savard isn't that guy who sets up guys regardless of their games.  If he finds chemistry with someone - like Chara on that back-door PP play - he's fantastic at getting the puck to the guy.  If not, he can't get a feel for his linemates and throws the puck all over the place.

    I've never been in favour of Horton, and I'm not now.  Blah blah blah I'm not in the locker room blah blah but the player I've watched in Jr. and in the NHL fits perfectly with the stories of him getting into Milton Bradley incidents off the ice.  Arrogant, bullying personality translates into great play when he's not challenged physically, but when he's up against someone who will stand up to him, he vanishes.  If it's a deal for a 2 or a defenseman and a pick, maybe it makes some sense.  Anything more and well, no.  Oh, if it's Wheeler straight up, then pop the champagne.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    Some things you have to look at when evaluating this trade. First, and most importantly, what we have to give up. I quite frankly have no idea, I don't think Bergeron would be included in a trade, unless the 3rd overall pick came in our direction, but that would indeed be a blockbuster, and those trades rarely happen. Secondly, Horton has never played with much talent. I think a line of him, savard, and lucic would put up points, lots of them, and also create a lot of work for the trainers. Horton does hit. Horton has played on a terrible team his entire career, honestly, I've been in situations where I was on a bad hockey team, and its not fun, and it can really drain the energy from a young player. Now, I'm not saying this will happen, but imagine the boost he would receive, going from a terrible team, to a team that is almost a sure thing to be in the playoffs, with a great young core and veterans such as Chara, and Recchi. That could really motivate a kid, and I think that would be a gamble I would be willing to take as a GM. I don't like the comparison to Kessel, Kessel had an awful work ethic his entire career (in college and even before too) and he had that awful work ethic in a winning environment. Now, a lot of people are saying that he is Ryder junior. While I think his upside is way higher than Ryders, I think that Ryder COULD go in the other direction. Here is why. Although not satisfied with his performance, the main reason that FLA is trying to trade Horton is that they don't want his contract. If he had one year left on his deal, they would hope that he would play for his contract, and that they could move him at the deadline for much more if he were on pace for a 35 goal season. As of now, I don't think he is worth all that much, certainly not a first rounder. My guess is that they would push for 32+Hunwick, but would probably be okay with 45+Hunwick.Throw in an additional pick, and they would take Ryder. Florida gets a slightly lesser player that picks up a little scoring, hopefully playing like hes playing for a contract, a 2nd rounder, a young dman, and lower range pick/prospect and get two cut off 2 years of a 4 million dollar contract.....there are my two cents, bash away because they may actually ask for more, but i don't think trading for Horton is a "blockbuster," by any means.
    Posted by pbergeron37


    He's definitely not Ryder junior (I base this purely on his stats).  His entire career in the NHL has been somewhat of a dissapointment so far, but he's young and, as you said, he played on an awful team.  So, here's his career stats:

    GP - 422
    G - 142
    A - 153
    P - 295
    +/-:  +27

    Now, let's look at Ryder's stats throughout his career:

    GP - 470
    G - 144
    A - 149
    P - 293
    +/-:  +7

    Take it for what it is....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    This deal is high risk-reward.

    Risk: Michael Ryder redux. See above for good comparisons of personality, stats, and contract.

    Reward: Scott Hartnell, like he played during these past playoffs: big, semi-reckless winger, with scoring touch.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=FLA&season=1011

    Salary has definitely got to be going the other way. Wideman or Ryder with Stanley Cups favorite Wheeker. The Bruins are on the hook for 4Mil till 2013 with Horton coming this way so If Boston isn't getting some cap relief in this deal then I don't like it cause Ryder is off the books at the end of the season so my guess is it has to be Wideman and a pick or Wheeker.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruins6. Show Bruins6's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    I like the deal PBergeron mentioned as I dont think Tallon will move his 3rd pick overall. We might have to dangle more if they are to take Ryder's contract off our hands, but Nathan Horton is a definite upgrade over Michael Ryder.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    "Put him with Savard..." needs to be put to rest.  They put Ryder with Savard, and that didn't work.  They put Sturm with Savard and that didn't work.  Both guys were 25+ goal scorers before they played with Savard.  Savard isn't that guy who sets up guys regardless of their games.  If he finds chemistry with someone - like Chara on that back-door PP play - he's fantastic at getting the puck to the guy.  If not, he can't get a feel for his linemates and throws the puck all over the place. I've never been in favour of Horton, and I'm not now.  Blah blah blah I'm not in the locker room blah blah but the player I've watched in Jr. and in the NHL fits perfectly with the stories of him getting into Milton Bradley incidents off the ice.  Arrogant, bullying personality translates into great play when he's not challenged physically, but when he's up against someone who will stand up to him, he vanishes.  If it's a deal for a 2 or a defenseman and a pick, maybe it makes some sense.  Anything more and well, no.  Oh, if it's Wheeler straight up, then pop the champagne.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    BB, you also forget to put in 'because he will fit in as well as Sturm or Ryder did with Savard ' comment also needs to be put to rest . This is also of the blah blah blah variety.A different player could mean different results. Don't see how this comment is any different then what everybody else is saying ( juniors or locker room ). Pure speculation just like the rest of us. Just because I've seen him play from junior B till now doesn't make my opinion right or wrong . It is my opinion based on seeing him play the game since then, not about the locker room or Milton Bradley  etc. If you prefer next time I will omit the fact that I've watched any player from junior and say that I have no knowledge of them to clarify what my opinion is based on. Sorry for upsetting you because of letting others know I've had the luxury of watching players play before they reach the NHL where I live .   
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    So if the Bruins went for Martin St. Louis then the trade would be more speculative trade would be acceptable.  If you check Martin St. Louis numbers at the same age as Nathan Horton you will find the goal totals are similar.  

    The point, if the Bs want value, the price will be higher.  If the Bs want to take a risk or opportunity with Horton then it is worth the attempt.  Yes he could be another Ryder, or he could be a significantly better player as well.  At 25 take a chance.  The exchange of picks makes the trade acceptable.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    So if the Bruins went for Martin St. Louis then the trade would be more speculative trade would be acceptable.  If you check Martin St. Louis numbers at the same age as Nathan Horton you will find the goal totals are similar.   The point, if the Bs want value, the price will be higher.  If the Bs want to take a risk or opportunity with Horton then it is worth the attempt.  Yes he could be another Ryder, or he could be a significantly better player as well.  At 25 take a chance.  The exchange of picks makes the trade acceptable.  
    Posted by islamorada


    Sorry for the first line.... So if the Bruins went for Martin St. Louis then the speculative trade would be more acceptable.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    I like Horton. He can put the puck in the net . Some say that commenting on Horton's abilities without living in the region is going by the 'they said' theory . Hasn't this poster ever heard of the tv and NHL center ice package ? He is exactly the type of player that this goal starved team needs. I have followed Horton's career since watching him in junior B and have liked his talents ( skating and shot ). IMO if put with Savard we could see our top goal scorer for years to come. 
    Posted by Chowdahkid-


    Relax ya curmudgeonly old crow.  Your simple minding side barbs fall on deaf ears.

    The point I was using wasn't that no one could watch the games, but more that, come on, it's the Panthers.  It's not as if anyone is actually a Panthers fan.  Unless it's the only game on or they're playing a team you want to watch, the Panthers are a commercial break or between periods team.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    To FLA: Matt Hunwick, Michael Ryder, 2nd in 2010 (BOS), 2nd in 2011 (MIN)
    To BOS: Nathan Horton

    If we want the #3, they'd probably push for Wheeler, the 15, our first next year or Toronto's first next year, and possibly an additional prospect that has upside but probably won't pan out (i.e. Lehtonen, Hamill) on top of all of that.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    To FLA: Matt Hunwick, Michael Ryder, 2nd in 2010 (BOS), 2nd in 2011 (MIN) To BOS: Nathan Horton If we want the #3, they'd probably push for Wheeler, the 15, our first next year or Toronto's first next year, and possibly an additional prospect that has upside but probably won't pan out (i.e. Lehtonen, Hamill) on top of all of that.
    Posted by beantowngm15


    Noooo!  The B's can't trade Wheeler now.  They give extended a qualifying offer to him.  If they trade him after doing that, no one will ever sign in Boston ever again!  Also, no RFA will ever stay in Boston, and no pending UFA will ever sign a contract extension to stay.

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    (no one wants Ryder)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : Noooo!  The B's can't trade Wheeler now.  They give extended a qualifying offer to him.  If they trade him after doing that, no one will ever sign in Boston ever again!  Also, no RFA will ever stay in Boston, and no pending UFA will ever sign a contract extension to stay. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! (no one wants Ryder)
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Is this a joke NAS?  The qualifying offer was to retain his rights and receive compensation if he is signed by another team.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TuukkainNet. Show TuukkainNet's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    The rumors down here that the Panthers thought they would get something substantial from moving Horton, then they got almost zero response and since have had to back track on what they are asking for.  The other thing I read (wish I could find the link) was that the B's have already turned down an offer from Florida and it was Florida who re-approached them.  

    I do think that Horton is a better player then Ryder...better skater, passer.  And although many don't put value on plus/minus...I do and was surprised to see that on really bad teams he still had a solid +/-.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : Is this a joke NAS?  The qualifying offer was to retain his rights and receive compensation if he is signed by another team.
    Posted by beantowngm15


    If they trade him after tricking him into signing the qualifying offer, it'll be GM suidice for sure, and no one will ever sign in Boston ever again.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : Noooo!  The B's can't trade Wheeler now.  They give extended a qualifying offer to him.  If they trade him after doing that, no one will ever sign in Boston ever again!  Also, no RFA will ever stay in Boston, and no pending UFA will ever sign a contract extension to stay. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! (no one wants Ryder)
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    This is exactly what was said after Thorton signed a new deal and was traded 10 games into it.  The next off season we signed the two biggest names on the market in Savard and Chara.  Also, a qualifying offer is not really signing a guy to a new deal...it's covering your butt to retain his rights.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : This is exactly what was said after Thorton signed a new deal and was traded 10 games into it.  The next off season we signed the two biggest names on the market in Savard and Chara.  Also, a qualifying offer is not really signing a guy to a new deal...it's covering your butt to retain his rights.
    Posted by Raskman


    Oh, no, you don't understand!  This would totally destroy the team!  The only players that would ever play for Boston again would be guys that they drafted, and then three years later, they'd leave too.

    If the B's qualify Wheeler and trade him before he plays one game on the contract, the Bruins might have to fold and move to a difference city.

    Oh the horror!  Oh the humanity!


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    Chowdah- I wasn't taking a shot at you, I was "blah blah"ing the inevitable response to saying something about Horton's personality - "you're not in the locker room, so you don't know."  For the record, I think it's always good to say what you're basing your opinion on, even if it's only blog static.  If you tell me XX is blog static, I may rip the blog static but I'll appreciate that you're not trying to tell me opinion XX is the Truth.  If you tell me you watched 20-30 Generals games and catch a dozen or so Panther games on Centre Ice, and based on that sample, you've formed an opinion of Horton, I still might disagree, but I better have something to base my opinion on that weighs in. 

    I also watched him in Jr. - not Jr. B - and saw a player who was a beast when he could exert his will physically, which was often at that level, but who didn't back it up when matched physically.  I had forgotten the Stewart beat-down until NAS brought it up, but it's a fit for the impression I've formed of the connection between Horton's game and his personality from watching games in multiple contexts, listening to him in interviews, and hearing the usual gossip.

    As for retiring the counter to the whole "if he plays with Savard!" nonsense, I'll stop as soon as people stop assuming an average player will explode playing with Savard as though a fire hydrant could score 40 with Savard.  Savard's history shows this simply isn't true, and it's only a select group of players who've really shone more brightly because they were playing on his wing.  I'd put Kessel in that group, but one of the things Kessel showed in Toronto is that he can score 30 without Savard.

    Finally, yeah, different players will yield different results.  That's my point too.  If the chemistry is there, they'll kill.  But I have yet to see someone define the right makeup for a player to have success with Savard, and just assuming that Horton fits the profile is a dangerous game if you're committing $4M for him to fill that role. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    I ran the number on Ryder here a couple of weeks ago, and the thing I thnk you have to keep in mind is that they came into the league in the same year, so the difference in games played?  That means Horton wasn't available to play those games or was benched.  In the end, if you're not on the ice, you're not that useful.  Projecting Horton's numbers over more games is giving him credit for doing something he hasn't done - stay healthy.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin? : Relax ya curmudgeonly old crow.  Your simple minding side barbs fall on deaf ears. The point I was using wasn't that no one could watch the games, but more that, come on, it's the Panthers.  It's not as if anyone is actually a Panthers fan.  Unless it's the only game on or they're playing a team you want to watch, the Panthers are a commercial break or between periods team.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I'm relaxed enough to  stay away from namecalling . But I like it , you may call me that from now on . But stay away from the fancy words ( curmudgeonly ), don't know what it means , don't care to know what it means . Hope you don't use that one in a normal everyday conversation . I'm here to read and talk hockey not impress anyone with my knowledge of fancy words in the English language. Save that one for your friend(s).

    I'm sorry about picking apart what you've posted like you do with others ,I didn't realize that your posts were off limits. You read this and tell me what it means.

    The problem with the whole theory is that I don't think any of us have watched enough Panthers games to determine how the kid plays.  Maybe Tukinnet because he's apparently from the region, but the rest of us are going with "they say...". 

    I guess I was supposed to read between the lines or you didn't post what you meant to say . I was under the impression that your posts were well thought out as you have stated before .

    And as far as watching the Panthers games this year I presume there has to have been a few of us who watched them a little more than a commercial break or between periods this year as they were one of the teams that affected the B's chances for the top pick. I know I did.

    P.S. Age seems to be a big factor in addressing others with your comments . Beantowngm, 16 years old knows crap and Chowdakid- is an old crow . We both wish we were the perfect age , yours , so we could know more about hockey. Once again I will use your line to get away from the conversation 'Thanks for reading'.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulbking. Show paulbking's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    wow i can't believe this rumour? n. horton  who wouda thunk it???
    to bruins
    rw nathan horton
    3rd pick in first round

    to fla
    dave krejci center
    m ryder rw
    a ferrence d

    i think this all would be on hold till the oilers actually pick t. hall. if they take seguin i don't think the bruins trade any of there centers
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    In Response to Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?:
    Chowdah- I wasn't taking a shot at you, I was "blah blah"ing the inevitable response to saying something about Horton's personality - "you're not in the locker room, so you don't know."  For the record, I think it's always good to say what you're basing your opinion on, even if it's only blog static.  If you tell me XX is blog static, I may rip the blog static but I'll appreciate that you're not trying to tell me opinion XX is the Truth.  If you tell me you watched 20-30 Generals games and catch a dozen or so Panther games on Centre Ice, and based on that sample, you've formed an opinion of Horton, I still might disagree, but I better have something to base my opinion on that weighs in.  I also watched him in Jr. - not Jr. B - and saw a player who was a beast when he could exert his will physically, which was often at that level, but who didn't back it up when matched physically.  I had forgotten the Stewart beat-down until NAS brought it up, but it's a fit for the impression I've formed of the connection between Horton's game and his personality from watching games in multiple contexts, listening to him in interviews, and hearing the usual gossip. As for retiring the counter to the whole "if he plays with Savard!" nonsense, I'll stop as soon as people stop assuming an average player will explode playing with Savard as though a fire hydrant could score 40 with Savard.  Savard's history shows this simply isn't true, and it's only a select group of players who've really shone more brightly because they were playing on his wing.  I'd put Kessel in that group, but one of the things Kessel showed in Toronto is that he can score 30 without Savard. Finally, yeah, different players will yield different results.  That's my point too.  If the chemistry is there, they'll kill.  But I have yet to see someone define the right makeup for a player to have success with Savard, and just assuming that Horton fits the profile is a dangerous game if you're committing $4M for him to fill that role. 
    Posted by Bookboy007


    I now understand where you're coming from BB. I  seen the Junior hockey comment and thought I was getting ripped on . I just feel that when I have an opinion on a certain player I've seen I like to let people know that it's because I've seen them play to clarify it . If I haven't I'll admit it . My misunderstanding, I apologize and thanks for clearing that up for me. BTW Horton was with the Thorold Blackhawks in the Golden Horseshoe Junior B Hockey League.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlackandGold24. Show BlackandGold24's posts

    Re: Horton close to being a Bruin?

    NAS, what makes you so great that everyone but you is wrong and you can rip anyone you want? I like reading a lot of your posts, they make sense. But there's a ton of people on here that also make sense in their posts, and all I see is you ripping them. The GM suicide thing isn't funny because your talking about qualifying offers and not contract extensions. So please just shut up about it. You should really consider listening to everyones opinions because I see a bunch of legitimate things on here. And please stop being so ignorant.Laughing
     
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