Lucic will be the Man.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    Luc adds a lot to the lineup...but most on here before last year said he was the second coming.  Cam could score from anywhere in a time when goals were at a premium.  Cam was a 50 goal scorer.  Lucic will never hit that.  Cam also took on all comers.    
    Posted by shuperman


    Cam was a 50 goal scorer when goals were at a premium? Possibly one of the worst, and most inaccurate statements ever.. Neely was a great player, I definitely would not take that away from him, but scoring was way up, goals per game during his career were at 7.2 per game, vs 5.69 for Milan lucic's  meaning scoring in general was 25% HIGHER and the nhl average gpg per team was at 3.5.. Making the value of a 40 goal scorer now, the equivalent of a 50 goal scorer then..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    I do agree that 40 goals is the same as 50 in Cam's time. Whole different game now, with goalie equipment, more defensive systems, and even greater info on players than before. Also, so many fringe players that good players could just skate around. (IMHO) I think the talent level is much deeper today.
    The thing about Milan is that he has a nasty side to him that no one, other than the true heavyweights, want to mess with. This creates room for him and his linemates. He just goes off once in a while, and everyone goes 'oh oh!' and starts to watch for him instead of the play. That is such a huge advantage. Much like Lindros in his early years. Now Lucic isn't anywhere near the talent that Lindros was, but they both had that same physical presence that changes the way defensemen think.
    In my mind, the $4mil per year is a bargin.

     
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    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

       I am begining to feel that Julien,a solid,defense first coach,could stifle,to some extent.the enormous offensive skills of some of the kids,especially Seguin.Hope he realizes what he has and uses rather than suppress these kids.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    roler,

    how was my statement about Cam off the charts.  He played at a time when there were numerous 50 goal scorers.  The entire point of the message you missed.  I was pointing out that Lucic will never be Cam.  cam could take this team on his back and pull everyone along.  Lucic will have a hard time scoring 20 goals. 

    Anyway, I am not gonna throw stones...but read the entire post and the point of the message
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    roler, how was my statement about Cam off the charts.  He played at a time when there were numerous 50 goal scorers.  The entire point of the message you missed.  I was pointing out that Lucic will never be Cam.  cam could take this team on his back and pull everyone along.  Lucic will have a hard time scoring 20 goals.  Anyway, I am not gonna throw stones...but read the entire post and the point of the message
    Posted by shuperman


    I did, you clearly don't understand what your sentence actually meant..

    goals were not at a premium when neely was doing so,  he scored 50 goals, during a time when many players were doing so and scoring was basically at its highest...So lucic does not need to match those totals, he can put up 35g and be deserving of such a comparision..

    Neely was a good player, but throw them on his back and take them along where??  The bruins of that era were a better team then the current bruins, made up of 3? hall of famers, yet they didn't win anything..

    The comparison to neely is high, but not unrealistic, many of already stated he does not have the offensive skill set that neely did, but there is still time to develop that.. Lucic plays the phsyical game at a level few do, and has the ability to change the game from that stance alone, the "power foward" position that ws revolutionized by neely has its prime candidate in lucic.. I don't think anyone makes these comparisions under the ideas that they will have the same career (segiun and yzerman) etc.. It would be unfair to compare anyone in their first 2-3 years with a hall of famer...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    re-read what you just wrote....premium I meant high scoring league...80-90's when there was no trap.  Maybe I worded it incorrectly...but by premium I meant that there were many 50 goal scorers.  Maybe I used Premium our of context.
    "a sum above the nominal or par value of a thing."



    Lucic is not a pure goal scorer like Neely who had a rocket shot and could score from outside the circles.   Lucic is more of an in the net crasher.  And the comparison is wrong.  Bottom line.  For starters it is a different era.  More skill is placed on todays game then ever before.  Lucic is not fleet of foot and will have a hard time against a more skilled lineup.  Lucic is easy to shut down b/c of this.  Neely is in the HOF when you were permitted to water ski on people using the stick...if the old NHL games are ever on the NHL network you should watch and get a good laugh...the stuff they got away with was priceless.  Gretzky and Mario would score 300 pts in todays NHL.  In general I think players in Cam's days are head and shoulders above todays players.  I just think there are more quality players in todays league. I may have to explain that one a little bit.  Basically meaning the stars of yesterday were far better than the stars of today.  But the league is much deeper now. 

    Lucic is going to be a solid leader who can chip in 20-25 in his best yrs.  He might tip 30 once in his career but I would be shocked/and pleasantly surprised if he did.  I think he will always be suited for the playoffs.  I like what we have in him.  But I think people set the bar too high...and I don't think he is worth the 4 million they gave him at an early age.  Make him earn his stripes 1st.

    cheers man

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    re-read what you just wrote....premium I meant high scoring league...80-90's when there was no trap.  Maybe I worded it incorrectly...but by premium I meant that there were many 50 goal scorers.  Maybe I used Premium our of context. "a sum above the nominal or par value of a thing." Lucic is not a pure goal scorer like Neely who had a rocket shot and could score from outside the circles.   Lucic is more of an in the net crasher.  And the comparison is wrong.  Bottom line.  For starters it is a different era.  More skill is placed on todays game then ever before.  Lucic is not fleet of foot and will have a hard time against a more skilled lineup.  Lucic is easy to shut down b/c of this.  Neely is in the HOF when you were permitted to water ski on people using the stick...if the old NHL games are ever on the NHL network you should watch and get a good laugh...the stuff they got away with was priceless.  Gretzky and Mario would score 300 pts in todays NHL.  In general I think players in Cam's days are head and shoulders above todays players.  I just think there are more quality players in todays league. I may have to explain that one a little bit.  Basically meaning the stars of yesterday were far better than the stars of today.  But the league is much deeper now.  Lucic is going to be a solid leader who can chip in 20-25 in his best yrs.  He might tip 30 once in his career but I would be shocked/and pleasantly surprised if he did.  I think he will always be suited for the playoffs.  I like what we have in him.  But I think people set the bar too high...and I don't think he is worth the 4 million they gave him at an early age.  Make him earn his stripes 1st. cheers man
    Posted by shuperman


    Ok, putting a premium on something puts a high value to it, when gas is at a premium, it means the cost is up, not there are above average supplies of it.  But thats mixing words and besides the point..

    I completely disagree with the idea that players of the past era were superior, the entire nhl scoring is down, I would be willing to abide the lemiuex and gretzky are the stadard in which scorers are measured by, and in there prime could still be a force in todays league.. but they would put up far less points then they did in thier prime.. ESPN did a story on ovechkin's 65 goal season arguing that it was the strongest goal scoring season in NHL history based on the fact that he scored 65 goals when scoring was at 5.5 per game, verse gretzky's 92 goal season in which the average was something like 9.5 goals per game.. meaning in an era where scoring was up 170% over todays game, he actually only put up 140% of the total, if that makes sense.

    Beyond that, players are faster, and stronger, the game is different I dont know that I believe gretzky could stay healthy in today's league, the fact is he would not be "hands off" superstar players get hit now a days, and hard..

    I agree with you near completely on the analysis of the diffences of the two, but I think lucic can get stronger in some of those areas (keeping in mind the goal he scored 2 years ago from the top of the circle coming down the wing, how neely-esque was that?) and the fact is 40 goals from the top of the crease wouldstil be 40 work horse dirty goals, neely has a highlight reel of pretty one, but he earned most of the the hard way and just being hungry.. The bruins in general lacked the "hunger" to actually finish ugly ones last year...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man. : Ok, putting a premium on something puts a high value to it, when gas is at a premium, it means the cost is up, not there are above average supplies of it.  But thats mixing words and besides the point.. I completely disagree with the idea that players of the past era were superior, the entire nhl scoring is down, I would be willing to abide the lemiuex and gretzky are the stadard in which scorers are measured by, and in there prime could still be a force in todays league.. but they would put up far less points then they did in thier prime.. ESPN did a story on ovechkin's 65 goal season arguing that it was the strongest goal scoring season in NHL history based on the fact that he scored 65 goals when scoring was at 5.5 per game, verse gretzky's 92 goal season in which the average was something like 9.5 goals per game.. meaning in an era where scoring was up 170% over todays game, he actually only put up 140% of the total, if that makes sense. Beyond that, players are faster, and stronger, the game is different I dont know that I believe gretzky could stay healthy in today's league, the fact is he would not be "hands off" superstar players get hit now a days, and hard.. I agree with you near completely on the analysis of the diffences of the two, but I think lucic can get stronger in some of those areas (keeping in mind the goal he scored 2 years ago from the top of the circle coming down the wing, how neely-esque was that?) and the fact is 40 goals from the top of the crease wouldstil be 40 work horse dirty goals, neely has a highlight reel of pretty one, but he earned most of the the hard way and just being hungry.. The bruins in general lacked the "hunger" to actually finish ugly ones last year...
    Posted by rolerhoky19

    Was that goal against Auld when he was in Ottawa?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    shuperman:  I LOVED Murray.  He was one of my all time favorite players, and I followed him everywhere he went.  I was OUTRAGED when they traded him the first time, and when they got him back I was hoping he'd retire a Bruin.  Management SCREWED him over hard.  One of the most underrated players ever probably.  He was a pure sniper.  GOD I miss him in a B's uniform. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    roler,
    Can you imagine either Gretzky or Mario in todays hockey.  1st off back in their day you could water ski around on players and never get called.  Imagine having Pitt or the Oilers on the power play 10 times a game which is someone standard in todays game.  Also imagine no center ice...Coffee to Gretzky...Coffee to Mario.  It would have been gross.   Also more games in todays NHL and user friendly schedules, more expansion as well. 
    65 Goals in todays NHL is a pretty amazing thing....but no one will ever beat Gretzky's 50 goals in 39 games.  NEVER EVER. Seasons Greetings was still on the ice. 

    I will concede that todays game is a far balanced/equal playing field.  Players are bigger, faster but that's evolution.  Now you have 4 lines of good players where back in the day if you had two lines that were star quality you were lucky.  BUT, Gretzky was too smart to get hit.  And I don't think his ability to read the game 10 steps ahead of anyone on earth would change.

    But we will always compare eras and never be right or wrong.  I just think the 80-90's were the best hockey years ever.  They produced easily the best hockey players that are in the HOF.  The records that Gretzky has set will NEVER be touched.  215 pts?  92 Goals? 50g;s-39 Games. 

    Good chats...and good pts as well
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    big,

    I grew up/played hockey/attended his wedding with Glen growing up.  He is a true blue maritimer, very humble and just a great guy.  He still lives in LA, but has built a hotel in his hometown.  He gave a interview for the Chronicle Herald about retirement but I didnt see one blip on any of the nations sports centers.  Which is pretty sad if you ask me. 

    Just a very classy guy who never really wanted the spot light...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Don't get me wrong.

    I really like Glen Murray and all, but I don't really want to read about those kind of stories in my nations sports centers.

    Scoring a golden goal in the Olympics, on the other hand...

    Now, that's a story worthy of National attention.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Shuperman :

    For you.

    I found this in the nations sports centers about Murray's being bought out by the Bruins.  I also think Murray filed a claim against the Bruins after he was bought out if I am not mistaken.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    RMiller,

    His name didn't even hit the ticker below.  Lots of very avg players are at least recognized for playing the game....he should have had a small blurb...he isn't HOF worthy but he had a very productive career.  Lots of guys with far less careers have been given their minute of respect.

    Yes he did file a law suit.  Saying his injury was in place before the buy out. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    roler, Can you imagine either Gretzky or Mario in todays hockey.  1st off back in their day you could water ski around on players and never get called.  Imagine having Pitt or the Oilers on the power play 10 times a game which is someone standard in todays game.  Also imagine no center ice...Coffee to Gretzky...Coffee to Mario.  It would have been gross.   Also more games in todays NHL and user friendly schedules, more expansion as well.  65 Goals in todays NHL is a pretty amazing thing....but no one will ever beat Gretzky's 50 goals in 39 games.  NEVER EVER. Seasons Greetings was still on the ice.  I will concede that todays game is a far balanced/equal playing field.  Players are bigger, faster but that's evolution.  Now you have 4 lines of good players where back in the day if you had two lines that were star quality you were lucky.  BUT, Gretzky was too smart to get hit.  And I don't think his ability to read the game 10 steps ahead of anyone on earth would change. But we will always compare eras and never be right or wrong.  I just think the 80-90's were the best hockey years ever.  They produced easily the best hockey players that are in the HOF.  The records that Gretzky has set will NEVER be touched.  215 pts?  92 Goals? 50g;s-39 Games.  Good chats...and good pts as well
    Posted by shuperman



    Shuper, my take is and will always be, that gretzky dominated hockey the way no athelte will ever dominate a sport..I do not think he would be the best player in todays game though.   I look at his 92 goal season and look at how many of those would be scored in todays league against todays goalies??  Definitely a smart player, and definitely still translates..

    Similarly, hockey was wide open back then, no trap, no great defensive systems, it was an offensive game..You could hang on guys but that wasn't happening at the time in general, and didnt start to till really the devils starting winning championships with Defense..There were players who had battles but gretzky was given room to operate.. I think in the the late 80's ovechkin scores 100, hull scored 86 with not much more then a monster shot and quick release..The fact is in the cap era no one can touch gretzkys numbers simply because you can't put a team like that together now a ways..
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    roler,

    you make good points...ones that could be countered as well...I think we both have our take...I personally don't think Ovie would out perform Gretzkyin todays or yesterdays league.  Gretzky was 10 steps ahead of everyone in his mind...you don't teach that...

    Anyway, good chatting...I like someone that brings some meat and potatoes to the table/
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    roler, you make good points...ones that could be countered as well...I think we both have our take...I personally don't think Ovie would out perform Gretzkyin todays or yesterdays league.  Gretzky was 10 steps ahead of everyone in his mind...you don't teach that... Anyway, good chatting...I like someone that brings some meat and potatoes to the table/
    Posted by shuperman


    I think ovechkin is most comparable to orr, or a lesser neely honestly, orr had a better all around game, and was a smarter player, ovechkin is just talent and instinct in my opinion.. The only player in the top 10 in points, and top 20 in hits the past 5 years.. etc.. I haven't seen a player with that kind of mix in a long time...

    On the other hand where were you when the "most talented" player discussion was going on and wheatskins was telling me there was no way you could argue gretzky (phsyically not a gifted player) and that his intelligence was really only a sub catagory of puck handling...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from knewjax hockey. Show knewjax hockey's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Lucic will never be Neely. And he'll never score 25 - 30 goals, it will be around the 18 - 20 mark like he did two years ago.  He's a fan favorite so there will always be overachieving fan expectations.  Not trying to be a hater just realistic.  I'm a Lucic fan and have always been a fan of the power forward but he'll never be a Bertuzzi or Neely and he's not fast.  Not slow either but not fast, I would say average.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    So your "realistic" in statin lucic will never improve on his second season in the nhl when he was 20? Yeah, I would call that realistic..

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from knewjax hockey. Show knewjax hockey's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Correct.  Hopefully you're right and I'm wrong.  I'm a pessimist and look at everything that way.  I like to look at things this way to not be let down.  Better to be pleasantly surprised when you weren't expecting much than to expect more and be let down.

    And Gretzky couldn't hold Ovechkin's jock.  The league is faster, bigger, and stronger now.  Ovechkin is the dominant force in today's NHL while Gretzky was this in yesterdays NHL.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeguinMyTime. Show SeguinMyTime's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Yeah Sorry Gretzky would most likely get ripped in half by a Chara or other big hitter in todays league.

    If you put ovechkin now in the league with gretzky back then. damn he would have looked like a demi-god playing with men.

    Lucic will pot a career high this year I have him from 22-28 goals 30 or so assists and thats pretty optimistic but I think he can do it. Esp playing with Horton and Krejci.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    Yeah Sorry Gretzky would most likely get ripped in half by a Chara or other big hitter in todays league. If you put ovechkin now in the league with gretzky back then. damn he would have looked like a demi-god playing with men. Lucic will pot a career high this year I have him from 22-28 goals 30 or so assists and thats pretty optimistic but I think he can do it. Esp playing with Horton and Krejci.
    Posted by SeguinMyTime


    I would probably temper the gretkzy comment some, he wouldn't beat a lot fo players in a game of one on one, that wasnt his strong point, but he did put up astronomical numbers, the year he put up 205pts, second place was 130, no body in any sport has ever had that kind of seperation.. He wasn't doing it with talent alone, and he had a great team, and saw the ice in a way no player ever has.. But he wasnt putting those numbers up against slouches either.. When Chara won his norris Cherry was quick to point out how diluted the current nhl is defensively.. Pronger and Lindstrom are past their primes, and Doughty, johnson, johnson etc, haven't entered theirs yet.. Late 80's early 90's is littered with first balet hall of famers...He survived playing with Scott Stevens and Darren Hatcher, I don't think Chara is a threat
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    In Response to Re: Lucic will be the Man.:
    RMiller, His name didn't even hit the ticker below.  Lots of very avg players are at least recognized for playing the game....he should have had a small blurb...he isn't HOF worthy but he had a very productive career.  Lots of guys with far less careers have been given their minute of respect. Yes he did file a law suit.  Saying his injury was in place before the buy out. 
    Posted by shuperman


    Why do you still cheer for a team that scr*wed your buddy over so badly that he felt the need to file a law suit against them ?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    Yeah there were no hitters in yesterdays game.  You couldnt hit Gretzky...Chara tear him in half.  Please....he stopped hitting 2 yrs ago.  Gretzky couldnt hold Ovie Jock.  What an absolute joke.   Even Ovie would laugh at that.  Gretzky is miles and miles ahead over any player in an generation.  I mean we are talking the best player to EVER lace a pair of skates up.  If you don't think people tried to hit him you are throwing a comment against the best generation to ever play the game.  You line your allstar team from 2000-2010 and I will lace mine from 1980-1990.  Its not even close.  Do some research before you make a stupid comment like that.  I'll start Mario/Gretzky/Yzerman with Potvin/Borque and Roy in net.  Who you Got?  Let me guess Corsby/Ovie/? Lidstrom/? 
    Ok...thats your butter line.   Wanna go line for line?  Not even close. 

    Again, its impossible to debate generations.  But I will let the championships, world records stand for themselves.  the next time someone scores 92 goals and 215 pts come chat with me.  different leagues, yeah I know...and Ovie faced Carolina, Tampa, Atlanta how many times a year....if Gretzky had those teams and todays rules he would have scored 300 pts. 

    When they make rules b/c of Ovie come talk with me.  They made league rules b/c of Gretzky.  Imagine 4 on 4 with gretzky or Mario.  The league rules are far superior to yesterdays rules. 

    gretzky couldn't hold Ovie jock....man I am gonna laugh at that one for the next decade...i suppose Lidstrom is better than Orr as well...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RMiller87. Show RMiller87's posts

    Re: Lucic will be the Man.

    shuperman :

    Guess you missed my earlier question ?

    I'll repeat it.

    Why do you keep cheering for a team that scr*wed over your Bluenoser buddy so badly that he felt the need to file a law suit against them ? 

    Why not cheer for the Kings -- Murray lives in LA not Boston now, doesn't he ?

    And why do you seem kinda angry that there wasn't a story in any of the nations' newspapers about the Murray situation ?
     
    I am sure that most Bruin fans are happy that the Murray situation wasn't explored in any depth on a national scale.

    Glen Murray gave his all for his team, and they scr*wed him over in the end.

    Do you honestly want to see a story about that in the nation's newspapers ?
     
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