Phaneuf to Leafs!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

       Do you just enjoy trying to tick people off badhab? Does cowboy really have to say that...In any REASONABLE trade by two REASONABLE gm's, the one that gets the best player wins the deal.
       This observation was originally stated by Sam Pollock. I hope you don't mind if I trust his hockey wisdom over yours.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ssags111. Show ssags111's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    If you talk to any Leafs fan just them dumping Jason Blake was enough to make it Brian Burke Day in Toronto.  This was a typical Burke move like the ones he has done before where he took two doormats and turned them into powerhouses. The Leafs have tanked the season and are looking for the future and this was a move that started it all.

    Your assessment of Phaneuf is so off base it isn't funny.  The guy is 24 years old and some are talking like he is washed up, WOW.  Phanuef is a beast and has been since he came into the league.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    BadHab:
    <<If you think Phaneuf is worth all that, you are out of your mind />>

    I have a lot of respect for you opinions, as you know, even though you like sticking to the leafs any chance you get. I think you are that PC got a great deal for Kessel.  However, I think you may have this one wrong.

    Here's how I see this shaking out.
    Leafs get a young defensive stud.  He's only 24 and wore out his welcome in Calgary to be sure.  Is he worth 6 million?  Probably not, but then Chara is, what $7.5 million.  Not sure he's worth that either.
    In return the Leafs give up:
    Stajan=3rd line center at best.  His numbers this year are skewed because he got 1st line center minutes in a contract year.  He would have been gone after this year as a UFA.  Doesn't play with Kessel anymore regardless.  Bozak is there now, Kadri will be there next year.
    Hagman was a free agent signing and can be a good scorer but very streaky.  Disappears for stretches at a time.  Was going to be traded before deadline regardless.
    Mayers is a 4th line player.  Was UFA and gone after this year.
    White=underpaid overachieving 5th/6th nhl dman given this is his contract year.
    UFA and likely would have asked for a lot of $$ and probably would not have resigned with the Leafs.

    Can't see how this can't help the Leafs A LOT especially if Phaneuf gets back to form.  Hollywood wife plus center of the hockey universe may bring out the best in him. 

    Other trade was
    Toskala=average backup NHL goalie that is overpaid plus Blake=hard working 15 goal winger that is way overpaid.  Contract was an albratross on the Leafs.
    In return they get
    Giguere=All Star Stanley Cup Goalie 7 years younger than Brodeur
    Again this is an upgrade to what the Leafs have now in return for next to nothing.

    Most Leaf fans are liking this trade.

    I'm still not completley sold on Burke as GM, but he showed some b2#$s on this one.  Go big or go home....

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!


    They always say if you get the best player in the deal you "win " the trade..

    I was making the point, it isn't ALWAYS as simple as that.  Phaneuf is a question mark here.  If the Bruins were getting him, I'd be concerned about him trailing off since 2007-8, what is that all about?

    I can't argue that JS Giguerre isn't an upgrade.  Blake is probably going to be better in Anaheim than in Toronto.

    Short term:
    And I was thinking short term because, like you, Stanley Cup?  What is that?  Give me a good team next year and the year after.  How is this going to help the Leafs this year?  They just got rid of 2 of their 4 best forwards.  And how are they going to replace them?  Phaneuf can't get it done without some forwards and how will Burke get them this year?

    Long term:
    Phaneuf is a gamble, will he return to form or will he continue to spiral downward?  Of course, if starts playing well - and that can happen, it will be a win for Toronto.  If he continues to spiral downward - and that can happen, it would be a loss for Toronto.

    You say that he will step up in the media spotlight of Toronto, well, it's not as is if nobody in Calgary pays attention to hockey.

    I kind of like the Leafs, if we weren't depending on their draft picks, I'd be rooting for them.  Phaneuf isn't a blue chip 100% guarantee.  It is a gamble.  If Phaneuf were to come to Boston for Ryder and Sturm, I'd be happier to see Sturm and Ryder gone rather than getting Phaneuf - and I'd be happy with that, but I would have reservations.

    re: Chara not worth 7.5, you are right and I hope he follows Savard's lead and signs a very (very!) mgmnt friendly contract.  I think he owes it to us to tell you the truth.  His first 2 years weren't very good as far as I'm concerned, lots of really stupid give aways, and he's corrected that.  I think he should prove to us that he is sincere about winning and signs a contract to prove that.  I'm not saying he should sign for 500k a year, but the deal Savard got and maybe even less.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickrand3. Show rickrand3's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Hey, look on the bright side, the Bruins still have Wideman,Ferrence and Hunwick. AWESOME!!!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from POWERSURGE. Show POWERSURGE's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Toronto gets a  decent goalie and a top 2 D. Hmm maybe Toronto's draft pick this year will be lower than Boston's. At least they have a GM with "balls" that is not afraid of shaking things up. We have PC who'll make a few little changes to the team ( Kobasew out, Paille and Satan in), but nothing drasting; which should be done with an under-achieving team in the midst of a 7 game losing streak and out of a playoff spot.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!


    Better no deal than stupid deal.  From what Burke said, this deal was broached early in the season and he said they were working on it for 7 straight days.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    BadHab don't worry what they say this will not help them now,  not this season .
    Why do you all think Giguere is a great deal ???  He has been horrible now for the last three years.
    Come on LoveRealHockey you're being blinded by two Leafs in from of your eyes. Now Ian White was no longer good ?  His stats are very similar to Dion on a bad Leafs team. I'm certain that Phaneuf is the better D between the two but how does this trade make them better now ?  Who will score goals ? Kessel will be an easier man to mark now that those other forwards are gone.
    It's  gamble for next year also but that we can only wait to determine . 
    If this doesn't work I can see the wolves in T.O. pouncing on Burke.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    "Phaneuf's best years are behind him."

    LOL he's only 24 years old!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Poor Dion. Unhappy fora  while where he was, then gets traded to Toronto?!

    Jiggy is probably already planning his retirement speech!


    LOL'ing @ TO... thier own fans are confused why Burke traded away the only players that actually performed last year. (Except Mayers, he allegedly already asked for a trade out of town, who can blame him?)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!


    I think Giguere is an upgrade to Toskala, true they did lose Blake's points...

    I was trying to be open minded, but now I'm not so sure...

    I am as convinced as ever that this move won't help them this year.

    Burke is going to have to hit some home runs in the FA market to improve the Leafs next year.  Unless.... the thrid round pick turns up an ace.  Somehow I doubt that.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    BadHab,

    I actually like your posts as well.  here is my take since everyone else is just calling you out.

    Toronto
    DP- 24 yrs old and can completely impact a game in different ways(huge hits, PP goals and can skate better than most at his position). Do you remember Scott Stevens and Chris Pronger when they came into the league?  They played a similar wreckless style of game.  Most d-man don't find a complete game until late into their 20's.  Its the hardest position to play b/c of this.  He is a stud and IMO will play great there. 
    My negative take on this is that they have 1/3 of the cap tied up in D-men next year.  And no fwds at all.  But if the are in sell mode next year we could see them shape into a playoff contender. 

    Calgary
    White and Hagman will return next year.  Stajan likely won't but will be a nice fit somewhere on that lineup. White is playing above his head in my eyes. Contract year...hello Jeff Finger Part II. Mayers is a depth/energy guy who likely gets in the lineup in place of Gratz.  
    This helps balance out the team but not for yrs to come.  This is a one shot trade in hopes of winning this year.  Calgary even parted with a prospect. I believe this does open a huge window for a trade for a star fwd.  I believe Calgary will be well balanced this year. 

    I think the Leafs win this deal b/c DP is really only coming into his own.  He will love the spotlight b/c he is a huge ego guy.  I think he could become the new Captain in a year or so.  

    Giggy for Tosk/Blake.  Again it clears more cap space and they get a legit #1 goalie.  Something they havent had since Cujo.  The Leafs will be likely make more deals to load up on propsects or picks and then retool via F/A at seasons end.  They are in dire need of a top line center to play with Kessel.  They need balance throughout the fwd lines.  

    I have always believed you build from the goalie out.  The Leafs have a number one goalie who had some off iceissues last year.  They have a solid top 6 def.  They have a potential 40 goal guy in Kessel. They need depth up front and a stud Center.  

    Cheers man. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!


    But why Phaneuf's drop off in productivity in the last 2 years?

    Please explain.  What is up with that.

    He turns that around, good for the Leafs, if he doesn't, bad for the Leafs and the point is, it's not a slam dunk.

    Again, if he were coming to the Bruins, I would be a little worried that the downward spiral might continue.  It's not like the NHL hasn't seen players rise fast and then fall off the edge of the world.

    Pronger and Stevens, check their stats, they were as consistent as you could reasonably expect, and they kept getting better.  It is unusual with Phaneuf that his development gets side tracked, especially given the type of guy he is.  He's a tank, he's only been hurt like 5 games in his life.  So its not likely he's been playing injured and waiting for surgery off season.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Iginlas stats dropped off in same time zone.

    Oh yeah bring in Keenan and he will ruin the will of good hockey players with his hate on for players, follow that up with Sutter and his D first attitude.

    Both of these coaches are true egomaniacs even more so than Burke as a GM. They stifle players into play their way and their way only and shut down a player's creativity which is what both Phan and Iggy thrive on. Phan's big mins have been lowered with Bouw coming in as well. Phan will be allowed to freewheel a bit more as TO has noone else.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichmondHillOntario. Show RichmondHillOntario's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Guys, you can bet Phaneuf's first game as a Leaf will be a good one just like most players who want to impress their new teams.  In that regard, the trade will look great and be hailed to the heavens by the media here in town.  (PK looked like gold in his initial game, too.) 

    The first time he nails somebody or scores, he'll be pronounced as the new "Scott Stevens."  In Komisarek, Schenn, Finger, Exelby, Beauchemin and now Phaneuf, that is a rugged D-corps.  Kaberle is left to supply the skill.

    Hard to say if the Leafs are better today than they were yesterday.  Isn't it said that the team that obtains the best player in a deal, wins the deal? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!


    "they stifle players into play their way and their way only and shut down a players creativity"
      


                                      Go to fullsize image

    "GET BACK!!! -GET BACK!!!  -STAY IN YOUR LANES!!! - D TO D 3 TIMES THEN CHIP IT UP THE BOARDS - DUMP IT IN - NO PENALTIES, BOYS"Laughing

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    BadHab.

    I don't think this trade helps the Leafs in the short-term; nothing will.  So to your point; I would agree that this deal HELPS Bruins for this year because it should solidify the lottery pick if it wasn't already.

    This is a trade in the right direction though.  It's make the Leafs tougher at the defensive end and at goal where they can give Gustovasson a chance to grow some more with Giguere there to mentor and play 20-30 games.

    Regardless of the production of the players going the other way, the Leafs are 2nd LAST in the league.  This team needs to rebuild in a big way and Phaneuf, although a gamble, is only 24 and worth the risk given the alternatives.

    At the end of this year Stajan(UFA) would have been gone, White (UFA) would have been gone, Hagman likely would have been gone (via trade), Blake would have been gone (buyout....a contract albratross), Toskala would have been gone, Jamal (UFA) would have been gone)

    Scoring?  Definitely a concern and likely more problematic this year but this trade was NOT for this year.

    Bad or mediocre pieces for a chance at a stud defenceman entering his prime.

    Worth the risk IMAO.

    But I still like your insight BadHab; you make me think....

    Cheers
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from joeschmo25. Show joeschmo25's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    I agree with the posts that say this isn't a short term fix. It's looked like a long term thing from the start, getting rid of Hagman's, Mayer's, and Blake's contracts show a determined approach to getting rid of big money tied in long term. Giguere's trade was a means of moving Toskala and getting rid of a big contract (Burke originally wanted to get rid of Jeff Finger but Anaheim wanted Blake so Burke settled). Moving Poni will be mostly to recoup some picks, and anything else that happens will most likely be dumping cap, if possible, in the idea to take cap on. Burke will most likely be interested in deals that expire not this season but the one after. This season's free agent market is top heavy, some great veteran talent at the top but past guys like Kovalchuk, Marleau, Lidstrom and Neidimeyer (the last two will most likely stay with their teams or retire) then it's nothing strong. If Burke times it so that the rest of the contracts expire for the 2011 offseason he'll have some serious money to go out and get some firepower in the form of 2 first line players to play with Kessel (if Kadri doesn't wow everybody before that time).

    In total, bad short term trade, possibly fantastic long term.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from smellybigmouth. Show smellybigmouth's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Kyle McClaren?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    I agree with Superman.  You cannot write off a kid with as much talent as Phaneouf, when he is 24 years old!

    We've seen great players go to different teams and stink, we've seen no names go to different teams and suddenly become stars.  We've also seen players look like bright young stars, unexpectedly plateau, get traded and then re-emerge.

    The only thing we can conclude about Phaneouf is that a change of scenary was absolutely necessary.  Now , he has a clean slate in a new system and less pressure on him to perform.  Hopefully, he can stop trying to do to much and get back to learning the game of hockey.

    Never underestimate the effect that a change of scenary can have!  Affinagenov is a great example and there are hundreds of others!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Because of the stall in Phaneouf's development, you downgrade him from sure-thing future star to young player with a ton of upside. 

    To write him off, at 24 years old , is rediculous.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Powersurge - you like balls but then completely discount the cohos it takes to make smart moves not reactionary ones.  Burke said the same thing; you don't panic under pressure created by poor performance.  You make smart, planned moves. Until I see a deal he should have been in on, and could have made, I'll give PC credit for sitting on his hands.

    "Best Player" - more than one 'expert' will tell you the best player in these deals right now is Ian White.  Not most potential, not best resume - playing the best hockey right now.  If you think that through, then that means the Laffs got worse trading White for Phaneuf straight up - for right now.  Who knows what will happen with DP in Toronto over the next few years, but I have no concerns about them getting off the mat this year.  Giguere might make a bigger difference if he can turn it around, but some goalies lose it early.  He might be one.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Anyone who thinks these deals have diddly/squat to do with where the Bruins pick hasn't paid any attention to Brian Burke over the years.  If anything, this is short-term pain for long-term gain despite the possibility the Laffs will be Oilers-bad the rest of the way.  Burke inherited not just a team but an organization that is so bad, so far from healthy, that he has a freedom you only get when you know you can't make things worse.  Only an organization as bad as the Laffs could trade four of its top eight scorers to secure a potential cornerstone player and a bit of goaltending stability.  Burke now has one <25yr cornerstone for his D and one <25 cornerstone for the O - both proven NHL players who've shown potential to be superstars.  He has to gamble that Gustafsson is the goalie to go with them. 

    Burke's building a 1-line team for now - like his Bertuzzi-Morrison-Naslund Canucks. They have a long way to go (another lottery pick in Boston?). They have a credible top 4 D and may have calmed their problems in goal, but this is their top 3 lines if you organize them by current production:

    Ponikarovsky-Bozak-Kessel
    Kulemin-Mitchell-W. Primeau
    Orr-Stalberg-Wallin
    Tlusty-Hanson-Rosehill

    Bozak and Mitchell - the top two centers - spent big chunks of time in the minors this year. Wayne Primeau is on the second line (well - he would be by production!).  Colton Orr is a third-liner.  This would change only slightly with the return of Grabovski, but who will he pass to?

    Bozak will probably stay put as Kessel's centre for now, and if they deal Pony, its to clear space for signing a top-flight LW ('like who?') next year.  I really could see Burke making a run at a free-agent Kovalchuk and ending up with this lineup next year (approx. salaries):

    Kovalchuk-Kahdri-Kessel (bad name for a line...) (10+.9+5.4=16.3M)
    Kulemin-Grabovski-Bozak (1.5+3+.9=5.4M)
    Stalberg-Mitchell-Sjostrom (.8+.9+.8=2.5M)
    Rosehill-Hanson-Orr (.5+.8+.5=1.8M)
                                                              Forwards: $26M

    Phaneuf-Beachemin (6.5+3.8=10.3M)
    Komesarik-Kaberle (4.5+4.3=8.8)
    Schenn-Aulie (.8+.8=.71.6)
                                                              Defense: $20.7M

    Giguere-Gustafsson (6=2=8)                     Goalies: $8M

    Total:$54.7M

    You might shuffle a bit, and obviously there are a couple of guys buried in the minors.  The centre on that top line would change depending on performance - but it would be Kadhri's job to lose - and Schenn would bump Lucic's punching bag if he regains his rookie form. Basically, though, the gamble is that the top line would put up 120 goals by itself, and the rest of the lineup would cobble up another 120 (say, 50 from the D and an average of 12/player for the rest of the forwards) to make this a competitive, aggressive team.

    In two years, they're free of Giguere's and Kaberle's contracts, giving them a bit more flexibility.  So...these deals will pay real dividends in 2011-12!!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    BookBoy:
    I think I agree with your conclusion on your last 2 posts.  This deal is definitely a long-tem proposition; albeit a gamble.  This deal DOES help the Bruins this year for sure (possibly next year).

    What I don't agree with is Ian White is a better defenceman than Phaneuf?  Do you even watch the Leafs?  I see them all the time (unfortunately).
    He has better stats this year but he wasn't even on the radar for the team prior to this year and is in a contract season.  And the Leafs, by the way, are 2nd LAST in the League and give up the most goals (horrible on the PK and PP).  White is very good offensively, but is undersized for playing defence and makes a lot of bad passes in his own end.  Also has some personal problems that he's overcoming (drinking). Gets bumped off the puck a lot.  Can't cover the big boys near the net.

    Phaneuf has had his problems recently and wore out his welcome in Calgary but you don't walk away from a deal like this.  The upside is so much in favor of the Leafs on this one and many on this post don't even know who Aulie is (6'6 defenceman projected to be a solid NHL player with another year of seasoning) who will make this club next year or the year after.  He played on Canadian Junior team 2009 when they won the Gold (partnered with Myers).  Frederik Sjostrom is a former 1st draft pick (11th by Coyotes) and very good on the penalty kill where the Leafs s#$k the most in the League.

    The Leafs went from 'Hopefuless' to 'Hope' in these 2 trades.  No guarantees and I guess we watch it play out in the next 2-3 years.

    I make this deal any day and twice on Sunday's......
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Phaneuf to Leafs!

    Like I said, LRH, I've read more than one expert say that White has played better than Phaneuf this year.  McKenzie's point is probably right - for White to play better than Phaneuf, he has to be as good as he can be while Phaneuf plays at about 65% of capacity.  But that's what's been happening this year.  No, it won't last.  Probably. 

    Or the kid who has never lived outside of Alberta (Edmonton-born, Red Deer Jr., Calgary pro) will get totally overwhelmed in Toronto.  For those who've never spent much time in Western Canada, let's just say it's a bit like moving from a less-than-diverse city in Texas to L.A.  Culture's totally different, and the temptations are big-city temptations.
     

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