Ryder as a black Ace?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from IcedAdam. Show IcedAdam's posts

    Ryder as a black Ace?

    For the more knowledgeable guru's out there, help me out with these scenarios.

    It seems like the biggest cap issue comes with the return of Sturm (given that he can return) and his salary gets added to the cap hit... something's gotta give. Lets explore two scenarios when Sturm is ready to jump back to the pro game.

    Scenario 1 - Ryder is on FIRE. He is finding the back of the net and is leading the team in points (try not to disturb the people next to you as you laugh). Sturm is waiting in the wings to step back in... can Sturm play re-hab games in Provi until Ryder cools off and the B's demote him if thats decided?  Are there re-entry waivers that he'll have to clear? Would Sturm's money count against the cap as soon as he's "cleared" to play?

    Scenario 2 - Ryder stinks.  He is in a scoring slump and the B's management has decided to eat his $4mil and send him to the Baby B's.  Lets say that they keep him there all year during the regular season.  Can they call him up as a "black ace" for the playoffs without getting into cap trouble (ala Satan with Pittsburg)? Also, would he have to clear waivers if being called up for black ace duty during the playoffs?

    That is all... have at it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    I wouldn't mind if Ryder were to go berserk and be completely on fire the first three months of the season. Goaltending is not a concern for me, Defense is not a concern IMO, I'm still concerned sticks will be held tight because last year is still in Bs players minds (overcompensation/trying too hard) and the goal output will be down like last year.

    I think the problem will be solved by a forward that tore it up in pre season camp and is tearing it up in Providence. As GOAT said it's the $3.5Mil question.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    What about Ryder going to the Isles?? just read a rumor that indicated that the Isle who are 5 mil BELOW the cap floor, and need to fill that to be cap compatable[ did not know this wrinkle] would be interested in Ryder plus NAS's favorite Zach Hamill. Anyone else aware of these possibilities??
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hockguy0818. Show Hockguy0818's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    What about Ryder going to the Isles?? just read a rumor that indicated that the Isle who are 5 mil BELOW the cap floor, and need to fill that to be cap compatable[ did not know this wrinkle] would be interested in Ryder plus NAS's favorite Zach Hamill. Anyone else aware of these possibilities??
    Posted by Bogie6

    Nooooooooooo! If Hamill is traded NAS will be heart broken!!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    For the second point, Ryder can definitely be called up during the playoffs as the cap does not apply in the playoffs (exactly the same situation as Satan when Pittsburgh traded for Guerin). I believe he would have to pass through waivers on the way down to Providence.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    Here's what I dont get....

    If Ryder is leading the team in goals when Sturm comes back (I dont think its that laughable), then why trade him?  As dissapointing as Ryder has been, we've all seen him snipe before.  And if he's sniping consistently , why not keep him around?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    I have a hard time believing the Isles would take Ryder (even with the Future Hall Of Famer Zach Hammill thrown in the mix), because Milbury's no longer running the team and running all the best talent out of town.

    Exactly who would the Bruins get in return? At this point I'd take Richard Park and a stack of water bottles to get Ryder's $4 M off the books.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    See the Winger Roulette thread for what I think about who goes where if Sturm returns - but I'll add here that, if they decided to dump Sturm to Providence and not Ryder, my guess would be a two week stint on LTIR for Bergeron, Savard, Krejci or Lucic.  They could send McQuaid down (assuming he's the 22nd player) and with the current lee-way, they'd still have to open up $2.6M more space to add Sturm.  If they only players they can send down without risk of losing them on waivers are Ryder and McQuaid, they'll either have to bite the bullet and lose Ryder (meaning Sturm stays up because someone would take Ryder-on-a-hot-streak for the rest of $2M, so he's either in Providence for the year or gone) or look for another way to hide salary for a very short period of time - long enough to complete the paperwork to send Sturm down.  It would raise some eyebrows, but it would probably work given the cost of holding one of those four out for two weeks.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

       I'm not 100% sure, but as soon as the doctors clear Sturm to play his 3.5M comes back on to the books. If we choose to put him in provi for some "re-hab" games then he would have to pass waivers down and when he was called back up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
       I'm not 100% sure, but as soon as the doctors clear Sturm to play his 3.5M comes back on to the books. If we choose to put him in provi for some "re-hab" games then he would have to pass waivers down and when he was called back up.
    Posted by captainbergeron


    His salary would be on the Bruins' books even if he's rehabbing in Providence. I don't believe he'd have to pass through waivers for a rehab stint.

    And Drewski, the reason why the Bruins would trade Ryder even if he's playing well (they'd actually have a much better shot at trading him if he IS playing well) is very very simple: A $4 million cap hit. Something has to give, and $4 million is a hefty chunk of change.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    I have a hard time believing the Isles would take Ryder (even with the Future Hall Of Famer Zach Hammill thrown in the mix), because Milbury's no longer running the team and running all the best talent out of town. Exactly who would the Bruins get in return? At this point I'd take Richard Park and a stack of water bottles to get Ryder's $4 M off the books.Posted by TryToBearIt


    I wouldn't have any problem with Park on this team TTB none but Park is an unsigned free agent at this time! Garth will soon start signing leftover free agents as he has 26Mil in cap space. Starting to feel like Henny Youngman "Take Ryder please!"

    Poor Zach kids ears must ringing on a daily basis...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    What about Ryder going to the Isles?? just read a rumor that indicated that the Isle who are 5 mil BELOW the cap floor, and need to fill that to be cap compatable[ did not know this wrinkle] would be interested in Ryder plus NAS's favorite Zach Hamill. Anyone else aware of these possibilities??
    Posted by Bogie6


    There are plenty of UFAs out there for the Islanders to sign if they need to add salary.  No need to give up an asset (and help a different club) to do that.

    No one wants someone else's garbage.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    See the Winger Roulette thread for what I think about who goes where if Sturm returns - but I'll add here that, if they decided to dump Sturm to Providence and not Ryder, my guess would be a two week stint on LTIR for Bergeron, Savard, Krejci or Lucic.  They could send McQuaid down (assuming he's the 22nd player) and with the current lee-way, they'd still have to open up $2.6M more space to add Sturm.  If they only players they can send down without risk of losing them on waivers are Ryder and McQuaid, they'll either have to bite the bullet and lose Ryder (meaning Sturm stays up because someone would take Ryder-on-a-hot-streak for the rest of $2M, so he's either in Providence for the year or gone) or look for another way to hide salary for a very short period of time - long enough to complete the paperwork to send Sturm down.  It would raise some eyebrows, but it would probably work given the cost of holding one of those four out for two weeks.
    Posted by Bookboy007



    BB,
    I get what your alluding too.. but the LTIR option is something more like 10 full games, and 23 or 28 days.. so a 2 week stint wont cut it.
    I would guess if we have any injuries that look at about a 3-4 week recovery we will be quick to engage the LTIR.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    Nas,
    I am not saying the isle would have an interest in ryder, but he is certainly not un tradable. There are not really a lot of remaining UFA's that have his offensive set during a good year, 3-4 guys.. Can't count Selanne as he is really only been connected to 2 teams or retirement.
    Stempiak probably doesn't sign for a year, nor afinogenov, so 1 year for 4 mill might be worth a shot.. Especially since if he has a decent year you might be able to retain him for less.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    If the season is drawing close, I don't believe any player is going to turn down big money because he wants more than one year. 

    There are a ton of guys available who can score around 15-20 goals.  They won't help you win the Cup, but if the goal is solely to fix the bottom cap problem, I'd guess a team would prefer to sign Marek Svatos than trade for Michael Ryder.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace? : His salary would be on the Bruins' books even if he's rehabbing in Providence. I don't believe he'd have to pass through waivers for a rehab stint. Posted by duinne


       Are you saying that at any time during a season we could send a player down to Provi and play a few games, as long as we keep his salary? Theoretically then, we could send Rask or TT down to play a few games to keep them in game shape if the other goalie is hot and playing 10-15 games straight. If true I wonder why more coaches don't do this.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace? :    Are you saying that at any time during a season we could send a player down to Provi and play a few games, as long as we keep his salary? Theoretically then, we could send Rask or TT down to play a few games to keep them in game shape if the other goalie is hot and playing 10-15 games straight. If true I wonder why more coaches don't do this.
    Posted by captainbergeron


    No.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace? :    Are you saying that at any time during a season we could send a player down to Provi and play a few games, as long as we keep his salary? Theoretically then, we could send Rask or TT down to play a few games to keep them in game shape if the other goalie is hot and playing 10-15 games straight. If true I wonder why more coaches don't do this.
    Posted by captainbergeron


    A player isn't subject to waivers if he's on a rehab/conditioning assignment (the time limit is 14 days), but sending a player up and down willy-nilly like you suggest is not allowed once they reach a certain age and number of NHL games played. Once that happens, they have to clear waivers, both to be sent down and to be recalled.
     
     
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigBadRuins. Show BigBadRuins's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    If Ryder is leading the team in points by Nov/ Dec and falls into a slump, why would you send him to Providence?  If Seguin leads the team in points by then and cools off for a bit would you send him to Providence?  

    You don't send guys to Providence when they lead the team in points and hit a slump.  

    Ryder will never be demoted to providence.   Nor will Sturm, Wheeler, or anyone making more than the leaque minimum on this team.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    If Ryder is leading the team in points by Nov/ Dec and falls into a slump, why would you send him to Providence?  If Seguin leads the team in points by then and cools off for a bit would you send him to Providence?   You don't send guys to Providence when they lead the team in points and hit a slump.   Ryder will never be demoted to providence.   Nor will Sturm, Wheeler, or anyone making more than the leaque minimum on this team.
    Posted by BigBadRuins


    Seguin couldn't be sent to Providence. If he's not capable of playing with the Bruins, he has to be returned to his Junior team.

    Demoting Ryder to Providence would never be the Bruins' first choice, but it is an option of last resort. They will have to make a move to clear cap space once Sturm returns, and if they can't make a trade, a demotion is the only option. (A buyout will still mean a substantial cap hit.) Sturm has a NMC, Wheeler's cap hit will be $2.2 million, and Ryder's cap hit is $4 million, IIRC. If they have to, the Bruins will send Ryder to Providence.

    However, if he's playing well, obviously his trade value would increase, and they could probably deal him.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    Players also have to agree to conditioning assignments, I think, unless they're exempt from waiver.
       And, yes, there it is - section 13.8.  "Unless a player consents, he shall not be loaned on a Conditioning Loan to a minor league club."

    It also looks like injured players can't be sent down for rehab prior to being re-added to the NHL roster, though they can be sent down before being given clearance to play in the NHL.  Go figure.  Sounds like a way to ensure that teams don't cook the medical records.

    Drewski's point, I think (based on previous comments), is that Ryder shouldn't necessarily be the first against the wall.  Why send down or trade a productive Ryder to clear space for an unknown quantity in Sturm?  The only real answer here may be that Sturm must return to the roster no matter what - and Ryder might be the smallest piece they could lose.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    Players also have to agree to conditioning assignments, I think, unless they're exempt from waiver.    And, yes, there it is - section 13.8.  "Unless a player consents, he shall not be loaned on a Conditioning Loan to a minor league club." It also looks like injured players can't be sent down for rehab prior to being re-added to the NHL roster, though they can be sent down before being given clearance to play in the NHL.  Go figure.  Sounds like a way to ensure that teams don't cook the medical records. Drewski's point, I think (based on previous comments), is that Ryder shouldn't necessarily be the first against the wall.  Why send down or trade a productive Ryder to clear space for an unknown quantity in Sturm?  The only real answer here may be that Sturm must return to the roster no matter what - and Ryder might be the smallest piece they could lose.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    It's all about the salaries. Ryder's cap hit is $4 million, therefore dumping his salary gives the Bruins the easiest route to cap relief. (Sturm's cap hit is $3.5  million.)

    Also, I know Sturm has a NTC, and I think, though I'm not 100% positive, that it's also a NMC.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

       Thanks NAS, Duinne and bookboy. I know they have to pass through waivers, but this concept of rehab in a minor league is something I thought was only in baseball. Always good to learn something new.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from chitownBruinfan. Show chitownBruinfan's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    if ryder is leading this team in scoring 3 months in we can look forward to the draft.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Ryder as a black Ace?

    In Response to Re: Ryder as a black Ace?:
    [QUOTE]if ryder is leading this team in scoring 3 months in we can look forward to the draft.
    Posted by chitownBruinfan[/QUOTE]

    Ryder's scoring totals (not including last year):

    03-04: 25 goals, 38 assists
    05-06: 30 goals, 25 assists
    06-07: 30 goals, 28 assists
    07-08: 14 goals, 17 assists
    08-09: 27 goals, 26 assists

    In six years in the NHL, he's scored less than 25 goals twice. I guess you only started following hockey last year?
     
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