SEGUIN VS KESSEL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]Can't believe I'm posting as I have been waiting for this thread to finally die, but let me ask this:  Is there really anyone out there that doesn't think the B's got a complete steal from the Leafs in the Kessel deal.  Sure time will tell, but this deal was Chia's greatest to date and all indications are that he robbed Burkie blind!  I bet the Leafs would love to trade Kessel back for Seguin straight up, right now.  And we have another 1st and 2nd pick coming our way next year!?  It's almost not fair when you look at the cap relief we got from dumping Kessel too.  Unbelievable trade for us. So, cry all you want about losing Kessel, a very limited and uninspiring player -- it is the trade that just keeps on giving for the Bruins.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
                        I hope the Bs took a good look in the mirror this past offseason.I hope the ground is fertile for young Seguin.I hope Julien bends a little bit.To move forward you must first accept your mistakes.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL :                     I hope the Bs took a good look in the mirror this past offseason.I hope the ground is fertile for young Seguin.I hope Julien bends a little bit.To move forward you must first accept your mistakes.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]

    Wow, I am sharing Bookboys amusement with your profile name.  Each post is so uninformed and poorly argued.  It may be time for a new hobby.  Have fun with Kessel (and Raycroft!), we'll keep taking your top draft picks, thank you very much.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Just one more first to go - no second.

    Right now the deal is Kessel for Seguin and Knight.  I still love the sound of a line of Knight-Seguin-Lucic so we can call them the KesSeL line.  Better yet, the Bruin draft Larsson next year and, though you wouldn't get a line out of it, you could still line them up to the same pleasant sonic irony.

    Over the long haul, this is going to be a tortoise and hare deal.  Phil's the hare.  He's going to rabbit out to a 45 goal lead in the first two years with the Leafs with 30 last year and, say, 35 this year (being generous) while Seguin counters with 20.  Next year, though, it's either a smaller lead for Kessel - say 32-28 - or it's a wash as Seguin follows in Stamkos's footsteps, or Knight makes the team or Knight and the Leafs' #1 both make the 2011-12 roster.  In that case, I'd guess the three players the Bruins got for Kessel outscore PK by about 15 goals.  If the Bruins do in fact land another top 10 or top 5 player with that pick, then this scenario of three gifted players to one will inevitably chew up that 45 goal lead well before PK plays out the string in TO.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    All I know is that if the B's have a chance at Kabanov at the #15 pick, they'd be fools to pass him up.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanFromMontreal. Show BruinsFanFromMontreal's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    If you still believe trading Kessel for 2 1st Pick + 2nd pick was a mistake...you are clearly a bruins hater.

    Bruins could not keep Kessel anyway.  Like it or not, his days with Boston were numbered.  He was on the block for a couple of years, and PC traded him when he was at high value.

    The outcome of it:  Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight.  And they still have Leafs 1st pck for next year, who knows can be a Top 5 or a TOP 10 pick. 

    Yes Kessel was missed last year, but only time will tell if this was a good trade or a total steal. 

    its looking very good for now for Boston.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]All I know is that if the B's have a chance at Kabanov at the #15 pick, they'd be fools to pass him up.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Point taken.  But I have little faith in certainties.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL


    My experience is that the Kesselites just never let it go.  From one of my Kesselite friends, he now says that even though it turned out well for Boston and it ended up being a good deal, that you can't teach speed and that natural goal scoring ability and etc. etc.

    They will never let it go.

    They want to play 'if' all day.  I've got another 'if', if the Bruins ended up with the #10 1st round this year, and #15 next year, it would still have ended up a good deal for the Bruins as 1 of the 2 1st rounders or the 2nd rounder would probably end up that one of them would be a good player.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    This will only really be settled when you get the impact both players have on teh team.  My short answer, is toronto lost..
    Burke said the trade "we drafted 7 this year, we don't expect to draft that high again", well #2 is higher..

    the bruins also lost round 1, management, and some fans (myself included) did not expect to miss kessel's scoring as much as we did..

    But who "wins" is generally determined by who gets the better player out of the deal.  If seguin turns out to be simply "as good as" kessel, and knight is a wash, and so is next years first round, then its push, if seguin + knight + next years pick leads to getter success for the bruins case closed..
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]Just one more first to go - no second. Right now the deal is Kessel for Seguin and Knight.  I still love the sound of a line of Knight-Seguin-Lucic so we can call them the KesSeL line.  Better yet, the Bruin draft Larsson next year and, though you wouldn't get a line out of it, you could still line them up to the same pleasant sonic irony. Over the long haul, this is going to be a tortoise and hare deal.  Phil's the hare.  He's going to rabbit out to a 45 goal lead in the first two years with the Leafs with 30 last year and, say, 35 this year (being generous) while Seguin counters with 20.  Next year, though, it's either a smaller lead for Kessel - say 32-28 - or it's a wash as Seguin follows in Stamkos's footsteps, or Knight makes the team or Knight and the Leafs' #1 both make the 2011-12 roster.  In that case, I'd guess the three players the Bruins got for Kessel outscore PK by about 15 goals.  If the Bruins do in fact land another top 10 or top 5 player with that pick, then this scenario of three gifted players to one will inevitably chew up that 45 goal lead well before PK plays out the string in TO.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

                    Bookboy you should change your name to Playwrite.You have quite an imagination for the future.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL :                 Bookboy you should change your name to Playwrite.You have quite an imagination for the future.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]
    although Seguin went #2 he was rated #1.I am  sure Burke would not have traded for Kessel  had he known he was giving up Hall or Seguin. Add Knight and another first rounder and I can't believe you are still arguing the point.Leafs got fleeced-end of story.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    See, I don't think I need to wait to determine who got the better deal.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the evidence is already there that the Bruins made out like bandits...

    -Kessel was not fitting in as a Bruin.  I know this can change with a new coach or whatever, but he was not popular with the staff or his teammates.  He was not progressing the way a upcoming star should be (plays no defense).  He was also way too expensive to resign for what he wanted.  The Bruins needed to get rid of him.

    -Seguin already projects to be a young star and every expert believes he will be one.  I will be shocked if he is not a better all around player than Kessel in 3 years.

    -Knight has a very good chance of developing into a solid NHL player

    -The Bruins have another 1st round draft pick next year from a team that looks pretty bad right now (top ten pick...?)

    -Without the cap relief of letting Kessel go to Toronto, the Bruins never would have been able to sign Savard, Stuart, Horton, etc.  That cap space provided the opportunity to sign better players.  In addition to the draft picks we received,  we also handed Toronto (a divisional rival) a massive salary burden for a flaky player.

    My mind is already made up -- great deal for the Bruins. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : although Seguin went #2 he was rated #1.I am  sure Burke would not have traded for Kessel  had he known he was giving up Hall or Seguin. Add Knight and another first rounder and I can't believe you are still arguing the point.Leafs got fleeced-end of story.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Burke doesn't trade for kessel, maybe the leafs finish higher in the standings..
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : although Seguin went #2 he was rated #1.I am  sure Burke would not have traded for Kessel  had he known he was giving up Hall or Seguin. Add Knight and another first rounder and I can't believe you are still arguing the point.Leafs got fleeced-end of story.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

           One way to keep the fans is to live in the future I guess.All this future stuff sounds great,but again the Bs system  is a tough system and always has been for young talent.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL :        One way to keep the fans is to live in the future I guess.All this future stuff sounds great,but again the Bs system  is a tough system and always has been for young talent.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]
    It works better than the future is now philosophy the Leafs employed  last year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL :        One way to keep the fans is to live in the future I guess.All this future stuff sounds great,but again the Bs system  is a tough system and always has been for young talent.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]

    I just don't understand how getting top draft picks who were the mvp of the Canadian junior league is some doubtful, risky strategy or "living in the future".  Kessel was a top draft pick too -- and we saw enough of him to know that he wasn't worth the money he wanted.  Every team in the NHL would like to have Tyler Seguin -- to suggest otherwise is silly.

    I mean why bother having a farm system at all if 'living in the future' is so dangerous. 

    Leaf fans don't seem too frightened by Kadri and Schenn -- are they foolishly living in they future too?  They're the youngest team in the league!  Yet the Bruins are foolish because they are trying to bring in some young talent??  Makes no sense at all.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Man, you just refuse to give up on this despite repeatedly being called out for not knowing the basic facts.  Strangely, one of the first things to come up when I search the 'net for "Calder Trophy Winners" is something called Boston Bruins 101 and a list of Bruins who've won the Calder.  Including two winners since 1997.  Now, that's probably not the best measure, but it shows that two Bruins rookies were put in good positions to put up good numbers that attracted league-wide recognition.  One of the other challengers the year Raycroft won was Patrice Bergeron, then the youngest player in the league.  Since Bergeron made the team as an 18 yr old, the Bruins have had several kids make the team within a year or two from their draft or leaving college - names like Lucic, Krejci, Wheeler, Stuart.  So what's your evidence that the Bruins system is hard on young talent?

    As for your parroting the old "living in the future" line, there are two sound answers.  Phil Kessel has done nothing to show he was much a present sacrifice.  Sorry.  He's scored 30+ goals twice.  Great.  Good for him.  The team he went to is the second worst team in the league.  Without him, the team he left went exactly as far in the playoffs as they did with him. If anything, it's the people lamenting "future 40 goal scorer" PK who live in the fantasy of what he's going to do.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

                                    

                                  Lucic and Wheeler BANNER YEARS last year.Wheels is struggling with system.Lucic a good glass breaker.Good guy though, I hope he makes it back,but for talent sakes, please dont use his name.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]                                                               Lucic and Wheeler BANNER YEARS last year.Wheels is struggling with system.Lucic a good glass breaker.Good guy though, I hope he makes it back,but for talent sakes, please dont use his name.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]

    I gotta tell you, once you mention "system" it gets hard to talk about bruins rookies struggling.. Julien (who employed the current system) has only been running the show for 3 years.. He has seen many successful rookies and young players, lucic was hurt last season but did make the team as an 18 year old, and showed progression into his following year.. Kessel certainly became a better player under that same system.. Any struggles prior to that would be tough to pin on a system..  The bruins simply don't have a 10 year tenured coach where you can say young players are struggling under him, since juliens arrival atleast 1 rookier per season has made an impact on the roster..
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

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    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]                                                               Lucic and Wheeler BANNER YEARS last year.Wheels is struggling with system.Lucic a good glass breaker.Good guy though, I hope he makes it back,but for talent sakes, please dont use his name.
    Posted by hockey-101[/QUOTE]

    Could somebody translate this for me?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : If you don't know the history of Alexander Daigle, I demand that you change your name.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    You know, hockey-101 seems very appropriate I mean, it would be an introductory level class, there are no prereq's etc.. I just hope its not already full cause this guy definitely needs a spot...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    You Bruin faithful are unbelievable.Wheels be the next talent thrown under the bus.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    You must be a troll, I mean, you must.  You couldn't be this obtuse and still work a computer.  Can't happen.

    Wheeler - 82 games, 38 points, .46 ppg.
    Lucic - 50 games (many at 70%), 20 points, .40ppg

    You're talking a difference of .06ppg and one guy is a "talent we're throwing under the bus" while the other guy shouldn't be mentioned in discussions of skill players?  Okay, how about:

    Wheeler - 13 playoff games, 6 points, -6
    Lucic - 13 playoff games, 9 points, +1

    Add another 9 points in 10 games and a +12 for Lucic two years ago vs. 8 games (before he was scratched), 0 points and even for Wheeler.  That gives Lucic 18 points in 23 games to 6 in 21 for Wheeler.  Explain again how Lucic is nothing more than a "glass breaker".

    Why do you try?  Over and over, with the same result?  Why?  If it's to get my goat, well, kudos son, kudos.  But mostly it's the same part of me that feels sad over the kids with flies in their eyes.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikzor. Show mikzor's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]You must be a troll, I mean, you must.  You couldn't be this obtuse and still work a computer.  Can't happen. Wheeler - 82 games, 38 points, .46 ppg. Lucic - 50 games (many at 70%), 20 points, .40ppg You're talking a difference of .06ppg and one guy is a "talent we're throwing under the bus" while the other guy shouldn't be mentioned in discussions of skill players?  Okay, how about: Wheeler - 13 playoff games, 6 points, -6 Lucic - 13 playoff games, 9 points, +1 Add another 9 points in 10 games and a +12 for Lucic two years ago vs. 8 games (before he was scratched), 0 points and even for Wheeler.  That gives Lucic 18 points in 23 games to 6 in 21 for Wheeler.  Explain again how Lucic is nothing more than a "glass breaker". Why do you try?  Over and over, with the same result?  Why?  If it's to get my goat, well, kudos son, kudos.  But mostly it's the same part of me that feels sad over the kids with flies in their eyes.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    I cant believe you people have fallen for this for 7 pages and counting. Of course he is a troll, ignore him.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    i hated the trade of kessel at the time. he had an unmatched dynamic that is rare in the nhl...but im ok with it now...hopefully this kid will be as dynamic.  all this bs about kessel not wanting to be here... and bad character ... thats just bs... and your gullable if you beleive that bruins spin..

    to the bruins it turns out that they got a similar level player for 1.25 mil per.... where as they would have had to pay kessel 5.25mil per....   thats all that matters to them... anything else...skill, goals scored, team success... is secondary
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    [QUOTE]i hated the trade of kessel at the time. he had an unmatched dynamic that is rare in the nhl...but im ok with it now...hopefully this kid will be as dynamic.  all this bs about kessel not wanting to be here... and bad character ... thats just bs... and your gullable if you beleive that bruins spin.. to the bruins it turns out that they got a similar level player for 1.25 mil per.... where as they would have had to pay kessel 5.25mil per....   thats all that matters to them... anything else...skill, goals scored, team success... is secondary
    Posted by jcour382[/QUOTE]

    Wow, this post challenges hockey 101 for idiocy.

    Look, I'll try to explain it in simple terms: There's this thing called a Salary Cap and... Oh, never mind.

    As I've said before, there is no need to demonize Phil Kessel. BUT paying him $5+ million per year, more than your star playmaker, is absurd. Toronto could afford to do so; Boston could not, because Toronto has lousy players, and Boston does not. Kessel wanted the money. Good for him for getting it, and adios.

    And if I never hear of Kessel again it'll be too soon.

    As for hockey 101, yeah, he's a troll. But he's one of the funniest trolls around. The lack of hockey knowledge is one thing, but the malaprops alone are priceless.


     

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