SEGUIN VS KESSEL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsNumber4. Show BruinsNumber4's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : The older administrations (Sinden, O'Connell etc.) are out; you have to consider what's happened in the time since Chiarelli's administration took over. The only "old vet" I see on this team is Recchi, and IMHO you can argue he's played a key role. As for "first stop for undeveloped talent," they've drafted/developed in recent years Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic and Hunwick, and traded for Rask and Boychuk, picked up Wheeler, have made it a point to re-sign all of them (pending Bergeron, who I believe will re-up this winter), and appear to be building the franchise around them. That's certainly how it looks from here.  
    Posted by duinne


    im mostly in agreement with you there. as i said i like the recent direction of the team. like you said they are building around them and im glad. but it took alot of time to put together and all i m saying is i generally dont like losing big names and talent for draft picks.
    i mean theres also bad with the good as far as players that underperform or got overpaid. im not sold yet on PC. im not tring to be negative, i mean if the bruins stay healthy and some guys return to form this team could be out of control. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : im mostly in agreement with you there. as i said i like the recent direction of the team. like you said they are building around them and im glad. but it took alot of time to put together and all i m saying is i generally dont like losing big names and talent for draft picks. i mean theres also bad with the good as far as players that underperform or got overpaid. im not sold yet on PC. im not tring to be negative, i mean if the bruins stay healthy and some guys return to form this team could be out of control. 
    Posted by BruinsNumber4


    You can either make a shrewd trade for a top draft choice or stink mightily for a while and get your own. How do you think Chicago landed Kane and Toews? Either way, solid picks and good development are how you should build a winning franchise, and yes, it takes a while. You fill in the holes with trades and a free-agent signings, but the foundation, especially in a salary-cap age, must be your draft picks.

    The Chiarelli administration has drafted not just Seguin, but Caron, Colborne, Sauve and Alexandrov, to name just a few. These kids are (IMHO) going to be paying huge dividends over the next few years.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL :  And BTW, he can't play in Providence this year. It's either Boston or Juniors. A little knowledge is a beautiful thing.
    Posted by duinne


    Comical.  I love when you attempt to come across as smug, and are  wrong.  Yes, he can play in Providence if Plymouth says they don't want him back. 

    You spout a lot of incorrect information for someone who a few consider to be knowledgable. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : Comical.  I love when you attempt to come across as smug, and are  wrong.  Yes, he can play in Providence if Plymouth says they don't want him back.  You spout a lot of incorrect information for someone who a few consider to be knowledgable. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

     
    A CHL player whose rights are held by an NHL team is only eligible to play a full season in the AHL if:

    (a) the player will turn 20 years of age by December 31st of the season in question;
    OR

    (b) the player has already completed four seasons of Junior eligibility.

    Note that there are some caveats to this agreement:

    (i) the agreement applies only to players drafted out of the CHL;
    (ii) once a team’s CHL season and/or playoffs has concluded, their players are no longer subject to the agreement (hence the late-season ‘callups’ to the AHL);
    (iii) the agreement will re-apply to each player subject to item (i) above at the start of the next season until the player meets the criteria listed in points (a) and (b) above.

    http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2010/04/21/from-the-inbox/

    His junior team not wanting him back is too ludicrous to contemplate.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Smug ? Yah why wouldn't the Plymouth Whalers want an 18 year who's scored 69 goals and had 173 points in 2 years good one! Dot Rats are too dumb to know anything about comedy.

    See if you can guess who this is ? Walks his lap dog neelybestallaround during the middle of the day, claims he's an author hmm ah yep you guessed it nASS.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsCountry. Show BruinsCountry's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Snipe, snip...can't we all just get along?

    Answer:  Hell no, not until the B's win the Cup!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Smug ? Yah why wouldn't the Plymouth Whalers want an 18 year who's scored 69 goals and had 173 points in 2 years good one! Dot Rats are too dumb to know anything about comedy. See if you can guess who this is ? Walks his lap dog neelybestallaround during the middle of the day while other people work cause he has no job and claims he's an author hmm ah yep you guessed it nASS.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


                     I doubt Seguin would want to go back to juniors.That would be a big blow for what I see is a very cerebral kid.Get 6 minutes a game with the Bs.That would be a tough start.Providence would be the place if his adjustment curve is high.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Before we get too far off track, let's go back to discussing hockey-101's post which suggested Seguin might end up playing 6 minutes or in Providence because he's not huge and he's not a pure speedster.  The biggest flaw in the argument is not the disagreement over a technicality re: whether or not he can play in the AHL.  In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with him playing a few weeks or months in the A if he was, in fact, struggling with the pace or strength of the opposition.  Hey, it worked for Bobby Ryan, right?  Nah, it's that the whole proposition is off.

    Matt Duchene led rookies in scoring last year at 5'11" and 200lbs.  He's not a pure speed guy, and he's not a power forward, and the draft hype said Seguin would have been picked ahead of him coming out of junior (for whatever that's worth - hype is hype).  Second place?  John Tavares.  6' 195lbs.  Neither of these guys played with all-world linemates - certainly not better players than Seguin will see.

    Rounding out the forwards in the top 10: Bergfors - 5'11" 190lbs.  Benn and Galiardi are a little taller at 6'2" but not heavier - 203lbs and 190lbs respectively.  Not much different for van Riemsdyk and Peter Regin - both are a little taller but not above the 200lb mark.  Anisimov is 6'3" but only 187lbs.  I don't think any of these players is head-and-shoulders a better skater or a faster skater than Seguin.

    Two years ago, Ryan was leading rookie, with Versteeg in second and Grabovski in third - both guys under 6'  and 190lbs.  Berglund's bigger, but then Stamkos and Frolik are 6'1" and 190-195.  Okposo's 6' 190.  Oshie's 6' 194lbs.

    Is that enough weight of evidence to suggest that the whole idea that Seguin isn't physically able to make an impact is bogus?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Good timing.  You're missing the point, hockey-101.  It's not Seguin's decision or the Bruins' decision.  Only Plymouth can waive the provision in the contract between the CHL adn the NHL that mandates players under 20 be returned to junior rather than sent to a minor league pro team.  It exists as part of the move to an 18 yr old draft (from 20, then 19) - the CHL was afraid they'd get killed if every drafted 18 year old went to a pro team somewhere rather than stay in juniors.  They're too important as a development league for the NHL to urinate in their cornflakes, so....
     
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    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : I doubt Seguin would want to go back to juniors.That would be a big blow for what I see is a very cerebral kid.Get 6 minutes a game with the Bs.That would be a tough start.Providence would be the place if his adjustment curve is high. Posted by hockey-101


    I agree 101 but for someone to suggest (not you) that Plymouth might not want Tyler back is just plain dumb. I will be in shock if Julien and Chiarelli decide to send Seguin to Providence.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Before we get too far off track, let's go back to discussing hockey-101's post which suggested Seguin might end up playing 6 minutes or in Providence because he's not huge and he's not a pure speedster.  The biggest flaw in the argument is not the disagreement over a technicality re: whether or not he can play in the AHL.  In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with him playing a few weeks or months in the A if he was, in fact, struggling with the pace or strength of the opposition.  Hey, it worked for Bobby Ryan, right?  Nah, it's that the whole proposition is off. Matt Duchene led rookies in scoring last year at 5'11" and 200lbs.  He's not a pure speed guy, and he's not a power forward, and the draft hype said Seguin would have been picked ahead of him coming out of junior (for whatever that's worth - hype is hype).  Second place?  John Tavares.  6' 195lbs.  Neither of these guys played with all-world linemates - certainly not better players than Seguin will see. Rounding out the forwards in the top 10: Bergfors - 5'11" 190lbs.  Benn and Galiardi are a little taller at 6'2" but not heavier - 203lbs and 190lbs respectively.  Not much different for van Riemsdyk and Peter Regin - both are a little taller but not above the 200lb mark.  Anisimov is 6'3" but only 187lbs.  I don't think any of these players is head-and-shoulders a better skater or a faster skater than Seguin. Two years ago, Ryan was leading rookie, with Versteeg in second and Grabovski in third - both guys under 6'  and 190lbs.  Berglund's bigger, but then Stamkos and Frolik are 6'1" and 190-195.  Okposo's 6' 190.  Oshie's 6' 194lbs. Is that enough weight of evidence to suggest that the whole idea that Seguin isn't physically able to make an impact is bogus?
    Posted by Bookboy007

    Good argument, what round was Duchene drafted,what pick?  Seguin might be comparable to Tavares first year #s if  Claude wasnt the coach.I doubt also Seguin will get his playing time also(Powerplay)Remember we have a lot of upperclassmen,unlike the islanders.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    ...and while I'm here - NAS is in a mood to separate the fly sh17 from the ground pepper.  In addition to the subtle misprision in the way duinne worded her post re: the Bruins not having the unilateral option to send Seguin to Providence, there's the fact that the Caps drafted some kid named Ovechkin the year before the lockout.  He played his first game the year after the lockout, beating out Crysby for the Calder.  I think we can include him in terms of using a few years at the top of the draft to accumulate talent, though not as a pure necessity of the cap era.

    Still, there are plenty of good examples of teams getting an instant, and cap friendly, boost from high picks.  Tampa Bay will be more competitive this year, and their centrepiece will be a 50+ goal scorer making less than $900K in salary.  Chicago had two players drafted in the top 5, including a Conn Smythe winner, that they couldn't have afforded if they weren't on EL contracts (well, yes, as the off-season has demonstrated, they'd have found a way to afford them, but probably at the expense of the depth that was as important to their Cup success).  Even Colorado went from picking 3rd overall to the playoffs thanks in large part to an EL talent infusion led by the rook they drafted 3rd overall.  Three of their top 10 scorers were rookies, and their second leading scorer - and top goal scorer - Chris Stewart is only a second-year pro.  For that matter, the Bruins' most important player down the stretch last year was on an EL contract.  They couldn't have afforded the full-freight on that old deal otherwise.  And they wouldn't have made the playoffs without him.

    It doesn't seem to be a huge stretch, based on the evidence, that draft picks - provided you use them well - are very important to team building generally and slightly more important for their impact on the cap.

    Frankly, I think this is probably what makes NAS a good writer - good memory (for grudges) and attention to precise detail in wording.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Good timing.  You're missing the point, hockey-101.  It's not Seguin's decision or the Bruins' decision.  Only Plymouth can waive the provision in the contract between the CHL adn the NHL that mandates players under 20 be returned to junior rather than sent to a minor league pro team.  It exists as part of the move to an 18 yr old draft (from 20, then 19) - the CHL was afraid they'd get killed if every drafted 18 year old went to a pro team somewhere rather than stay in juniors.  They're too important as a development league for the NHL to urinate in their cornflakes, so....
    Posted by Bookboy007

                          Plymouth or any other Junior team does not want a kid who does not want to be there.I would be curious to see if this has ever happened before?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Duchene?  You're not going to like this: same year as Tavares, two picks later.  2009, round 1, pick 3.

    I don't think Seguin will match Tavares or Duchene in points because, yes, he isn't the go to guy.  But he will play with more established NHLers, and you yourself said that will impact how effective he is out of the gate.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    It has happened - I think with Jesse Boulerice if no one else.  Usually, it's a player who would be peripheral - a goon, a checker.  And yes, they do want him.  He's the cornerstone of their marketing campaign, and frankly, he has no leverage to force things to happen differently - no one has sulked their way into the NHL!
     
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    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Duchene?  You're not going to like this: same year as Tavares, two picks later.  2009, round 1, pick 3. I don't think Seguin will match Tavares or Duchene in points because, yes, he isn't the go to guy.  But he will play with more established NHLers, and you yourself said that will impact how effective he is out of the gate.
    Posted by Bookboy007


                  Bookboy knows his stats! Would you agree by the way Seguin  presents himeself he wants to be the go to guy?Would if he isnt?probably wont.Would if he gets sent back? It just seems nuts that if he shot lights out in Juniors and wasnt ready for the Bs,that he wouldnt go to someplace in between like Providence.
     
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    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL


              I would not choose Claudes tight system to bring along a young cerebral Seguin.Seguin is going to have to fit with the first 2 lines or he will sit.This is why I bring up providence.If he sits and the Bs do lousy anyway,look for a more offense minded coach to replace claude mid-season,and the Bs look to give Seguin and the Bs a second spark.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Why do people not understand that Providence is not an option . With an agreement in place between the CHL and the NHL the name ' Providence' should never be even mentioned as an option to where any of these top drafted players go. I live in junior hockey territory and see a lot of empty seats in certain buildings. The owners of these teams have seats to fill and want to win to fill these seats. They are businessman. Does it make sense to let these high profile players go to the AHL for the owners of these teams ? They have no affiliation with any of the NHL team so they have no obligation to them . They 'll do what's best for their own junior teams and if these players don't make the big league team they'll want them playing in their league. End of story ! 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Why do people not understand that Providence is not an option . With an agreement in place between the CHL and the NHL the name ' Providence' should never be even mentioned as an option to where any of these top drafted players go. I live in junior hockey territory and see a lot of empty seats in certain buildings. The owners of these teams have seats to fill and want to win to fill these seats. They are businessman. Does it make sense to let these high profile players go to the AHL for the owners of these teams ? They have no affiliation with any of the NHL team so they have no obligation to them . They 'll do what's best for their own junior teams and if these players don't make the big league team they'll want them playing in their league. End of story ! 
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

                        So its all about the Fu..ing money?
     
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    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    Actually hockey 101 yes it is . The agreement was set in place because of NHL team's yanking these players up and down from the juniors to the NHL during the season. These teams have obligations to their own fans and are not pawns for the NHL. Making money is the main reason also for these owners too. You have to realize they are developed at a young age by these teams before they are draft eligible so they do spend a considerable amount of time and money on these players. They should be entitled to have their services for as long as allowed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    Still, there are plenty of good examples of teams getting an instant, and cap friendly, boost from high picks.  Tampa Bay will be more competitive this year, and their centrepiece will be a 50+ goal scorer making less than $900K in salary.  Chicago had two players drafted in the top 5, including a Conn Smythe winner, that they couldn't have afforded if they weren't on EL contracts (well, yes, as the off-season has demonstrated, they'd have found a way to afford them, but probably at the expense of the depth that was as important to their Cup success).  Even Colorado went from picking 3rd overall to the playoffs thanks in large part to an EL talent infusion led by the rook they drafted 3rd overall.  Three of their top 10 scorers were rookies, and their second leading scorer - and top goal scorer - Chris Stewart is only a second-year pro.  For that matter, the Bruins' most important player down the stretch last year was on an EL contract.  They couldn't have afforded the full-freight on that old deal otherwise.  And they wouldn't have made the playoffs without him. It doesn't seem to be a huge stretch, based on the evidence, that draft picks - provided you use them well - are very important to team building generally and slightly more important for their impact on the cap. Frankly, I think this is probably what makes NAS a good writer - good memory (for grudges) and attention to precise detail in wording.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    There were a lot of factors in the surge from Colorado.  Sure, Duchense was a factor, but cap friendly starter Craig Anderson was also involved.  Stewart had a great season, but at #18 overall, he doesn't really fit the "top pick" genre.  A great season by Kyle Quincey was also a big factor.  The fourth round pick wouldn't be considered a top pick by any logical standard.

    There is no question that contributions from players on rookie contracts can have a huge impact on the outcome of the season for the club.  The misconception is the value that is placed on top five picks.  Now, if we're solely talking the #1 pick, sure.  Get a couple of those and acension is immenent. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    It has happened - I think with Jesse Boulerice if no one else.  Usually, it's a player who would be peripheral - a goon, a checker.  And yes, they do want him.  He's the cornerstone of their marketing campaign, and frankly, he has no leverage to force things to happen differently - no one has sulked their way into the NHL!
    Posted by Bookboy007


    After what he did to Andrew Long, it's no surprise he wasn't welcomed back.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockey-101. Show hockey-101's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

      This is my thought.A first round 1-5 pick should never be obtained via trade but where a team ended up in the standings.Give those kids more of a chance to stick.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
      This is my thought.A first round 1-5 pick should never be obtained via trade but where a team ended up in the standings.Give those kids more of a chance to stick.
    Posted by hockey-101


    You can't discriminate that way. How would you enforce it? When Toronto made that trade, they had no idea where they'd finish in the standings. What would you do, void the trade because they finished next to last?

    You either allow teams to trade draft picks (as in hockey or football), or you don't (baseball). Period.

    Regardless, if a player is good enough to play in the NHL, he'll play.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL

    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL:
    In Response to Re: SEGUIN VS KESSEL : After what he did to Andrew Long, it's no surprise he wasn't welcomed back.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Exactly.  That he was involved in several other incidents in the minors should testify to the need for an enforceable disciplinary agreement between all NA leagues to keep guys like that out of the game.
     
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