State of the Cap: What would you do?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    This might help with your question. Don't really think you'll find an answer anywhere on how far can a team bend the rules for bonus cushion for LTIR though. http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=533088
    Posted by Chowdahkid-


    I'm not sure why you're having such a difficult time understanding the fact that I was asking the poster for clarification on his post.  It's nothing that requires your attention. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Don't be like that NAS. Are you still mad at me ! This is a public forum isn't it ? Now I'm not allowed to weigh in on a conversation because you don't want me to ? You don't want me to 'whine' about the way you post and I didn't do that . I gave a hockey opinion and you get pi##y. Don't you remember what you told me this morning ?

    Posts: 1719
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     Turns out it's a free world, baby.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    One note: my head is too fuzzy for me to check right now, but that capgeek number may include the cap hit for Marchand.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeantownBDH. Show BeantownBDH's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Get Sturm to sit for the season and that automatically dumps 3.5 that insurance will cover most of + he's off the books for the season. Waive Ryder and hope someone picks him up.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    Get Sturm to sit for the season and that automatically dumps 3.5 that insurance will cover most of + he's off the books for the season. Waive Ryder and hope someone picks him up.
    Posted by BeantownBDH


    It is illegal to have a guy on LTIR who is no longer injured.  No only is it unethical, it's also insurance fraud.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    Get Sturm to sit for the season and that automatically dumps 3.5 that insurance will cover most of + he's off the books for the season. Waive Ryder and hope someone picks him up.
    Posted by BeantownBDH


    The problem with this is the league and the insurance companies will have their doctors confirm that Sturm can't play.  They aren't going to take the Bruins medical staff's word for it.  Also, if Sturm wants to play, he'll be pushing to come back.  At his age, a lost season is virtual death.  As for waiving Ryder...it may have to be done.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    According to Capgeek, the B's have $2.7M left to spend.  Still to be signed are Blake Wheeler and Mark Stuart. Last year, Stuart's cap hit was $1.3M.  Considering the money that was thrown at stay-at-home FA defensemen, he's in for a decent raise.  Let's even offer him 3yr/$6.6M, a cap hit of $2.2M. It's safe to say that Wheeler isn't going to sign for $500K.  The other view is to sign Wheeler first.  He's coming off his rookie deal of a base of $850K.  While few of us are very impressed by him, he did score some goals.  Guys with similar stats are making $3M+.  Well, that in itself removes the present possibility of the B's signing Wheeler.  What to do? Trade a working part of the team is one option.  Savard or Thomas free up enough space.  The problem is, throwing away players to keep Blake Wheeler doesn't seem like the best way to manage the assets. Trade Wheeler is another one.  If they did that, however, and signed Stuart for slightly below the above number, the could call up a one of the Providence kids and the problem is solved. Seems to me the option is to keep Stuart and a working part of the current NHL team or keep Wheeler and trade a working part and Stuart. I think if I had the choice, I'd move Wheeler. What would you do?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    It appears Thomas & his anchor contract are unmovable as expected. I would move Savard.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    NHL Numbers have us at 5.122 cap space missing 2 forwards and a D.

    Seg - 900K, Wheeler 2.5M, Stuart 2M is 5.4

    Add March 821K is 6.2 replacement for Sturm

    Minus Sturm LTI to Dec? 1.5M leaves 400 K left plus a 490K unused of March when Sturm returns leaves 890 cap left.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CAPGEEK has us at 2.7M cap includes March 821 needs of 1 FW and 1 D

    Seg - 900K, Wheeler 2.5M, Stuart 2M is 5.4

    Minus Sturm LTI to Dec? 1.5M has an over of 1.2 minus unused 490K of March
    leaves an over of 710K.

    Cap geek includes a 1.76M carry-over bonus penalty, (that if not instituted, as it has not been cited anywhere but here, what the final numbers are) would leave a 1.05 M cap space.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We do not have the numbers required to know which is right or even if either is close. Pc seems to be sure that he has the numbers to start the season with the signings of Wheeler and Stuart, we just have to see what they will be.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    I just noticed that capgeek is also counting Recchi at $1.95M, which includes his bonus.  Looks like we'll have to wait a while to see where things actually end up.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Great analysis N04.Bobby! Hunwick and/or Ference will be gone as i agree that Ference has a very friendly moveable contract. Me thinks PC is reluctant to move a Dman that has NHL experience so that is why he is making the mistake of considering moving Savard before he is sure about Seguin. I could definitely see Marc being moved in years 2 or 3 of his contract.

    Marco's LTIR relief will only hold for so long probably till November that's when TT and Ryder's contracts will be easier to move. I wouldn't be surprised if Hunwick is moved soon but I would be very surprised if Ryder is bought out JJ just wouldn't allow it and that won't happen until after the arbitration hearings of Wheeker and Stuart if those hearings take place.

    I say PC should move Hunwick then give McQuaid and/or Alexandrov a real shot  at the 6 n 7 D slots, give away a #2 pick with Ryder and take back 2.5Mil (doesn't mattter if the contract in return has 2 or 3 years left there's plenty of money in 2011-2012) Veteran Dman back to give the other team in the trade some relief. Islanders and Minnesota, Atlanta are teams I would target for these trades.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigjeezy. Show bigjeezy's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    dump ryder in the minors 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Pc might be using

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=BOS

    7M cap space

    10 FW and 4 D includes Hami-1.345833M no Thorn 812k, no Ference2.25M, Recchi at 1M, Schaeffer a buy out at 566K not 766K, and Eaves minus 41k is not listed either.

    Remove Ham and add Thorn=7.53M   Still 10 Forwards
    Sturm LTI -1.5                 =9.03            9 Forw
    Ference                          =6.78M          5 D
    Wheel   2.78                     =4.00           10 FW
    Seg   900K                      =3.10M          11 FW
    March  490K replace Sturm=2.6M            12 FW
    Stuart      2.4M               =0.2M             6D
    Buyout  .16                     =0.04M
    Pc has money to sign Wh and Stua, but the numbers will be tight.
     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    When you look at the options, moving Stuart with Kamfer/Bartkowsky/Alexandrov/Penner/Bodnarchuck/McQuaid in the wings seems reasonable. Moving Savard has greater implications since Seguin may need a first year on the wing as did Bergeron. Wheeler is frustrating since he has skills you want,speed/size, but his second year was not so hot, and yet his 3rd could be a breakout if paired with Kreji and Horton. Do not think CHIA will trade Wheeler, and he seems to like both Hunwick and McQuaid, so Stuart looks to be the best opportunity with least negative impact.
    Posted by Bogie6


    Bogie,
    I would think based on this you would argue moving wheeler makes more sense as none of those guys are ready.

    And with Caron, colborne marchand lehtonen sauve in providence, not to mention seguin, and knight and spooner, I think we have more options up front, then we do at the blue line...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    Pc might be using http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=BOS 7M cap space 10 FW and 4 D includes Hami-1.345833M no Thorn 812k, no Ference2.25M, Recchi at 1M, Schaeffer a buy out at 566K not 766K, and Eaves minus 41k is not listed either. Remove Ham and add Thorn=7.53M   Still 10 Forwards Sturm LTI -1.5                 =9.03            9 Forw Ference                          =6.78M          5 D Wheel   2.78                     =4.00           10 FW Seg   900K                      =3.10M          11 FW March  490K replace Sturm=2.6M            12 FW Stuart      2.4M               =0.2M             6D Buyout  .16                     =0.04M Pc has money to sign Wh and Stua, but the numbers will be tight.  
    Posted by No4BobbyOrr-GOAT

    this does look about right, of course, it allow 0 room for moving guys up and down, and it also doesnt allow for the bonus's meaning when seguin hits a couple of his, (which he undoubtly will) and recchi similarly hits. we will be facing cap penalties next season..

    which with ryder and sturm coming off the books may be the way to go, chances are if the bruins elect to have those guys back both would come at a discount...
     
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    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do? : this does look about right, of course, it allow 0 room for moving guys up and down, and it also doesnt allow for the bonus's meaning when seguin hits a couple of his, (which he undoubtly will) and recchi similarly hits. we will be facing cap penalties next season.. which with ryder and sturm coming off the books may be the way to go, chances are if the bruins elect to have those guys back both would come at a discount...
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    With the bonus cushion being gone next season, taking another penalty shouldn't be in the plans.  All EL deals will become hard cap hits while adding any kind of carry over could make next off season a mess.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do? which with ryder and sturm coming off the books may be the way to go, chances are if the bruins elect to have those guys back both would come at a discount...
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    Please no more seasons of watching Ryder after this I can't takes no more Yell Ahhhh
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Raskman,
    I think operating with in the rules of the CBA will be a safe bet, the entry level cap figures can not become hard cap hit as long as they are bonus based..Seguins contract will carry a .5m hit in regards to him winning the selke, finishing top 10 for the hart etc..

    I could see the league lowering the cap, and allowing bonuses to be cap free when they apply to entry level deals, etc.. but you can't hammer a team on a contract that is pretty standard these days..

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid. Show Chowdahkid's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    I would say dump Ryder in the minors with Peter Schaffer if Jacobs would ever eat the $4million which I highly doubt.

    But since Sturm is out til December with his second torn ACL i would say dump Sturm in the minors and eat his salary and hope Ryder will heat up because it is a contract year for him... however I don't know if you can do that to Sturm while he is on IR?
     
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    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    Raskman, I think operating with in the rules of the CBA will be a safe bet, the entry level cap figures can not become hard cap hit as long as they are bonus based..Seguins contract will carry a .5m hit in regards to him winning the selke, finishing top 10 for the hart etc.. I could see the league lowering the cap, and allowing bonuses to be cap free when they apply to entry level deals, etc.. but you can't hammer a team on a contract that is pretty standard these days..
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    In the last season of the CBA there is no bonus cushion because technically there is no next year to carry over the penalty.  Therefore all bonuses become hard cap hits.  Without a provision to extend the deal and the owners wanting to re-negotiate, next season will be a hard cap year. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    Yeah,
    And I haven't looked into how that will work, maybe you have, but I can't think the 3.75 will be the hard cap hit, I would assume it would be 900k and then when the player earns the bonus his cap hit increases no?

    I mean the NHL, teams players etc all know its unrealistic that rookies will hit the group b bonuses, which is probably why there worth more, and are not capped where goup a you can only earn 850k even if you hit 5 bonuses at 212k each..

    I understand your saying, with all the cloudiness surrounding it dont do it.. But the bruins have cap room next season with ryder and sturm, assuming we can fill those roles out of providence i would be ok carrying seguins bonus cushion into next season.  Ryder sturm and recchi free up 9m.. Assuming we can get chara back at the same or lower, and bergy for the same or lower I think the bruins are in ok shape next season.. They wont be in a position to make a huge splash unless its through trade, or they let chara and bergy walk, but they should have more freedom then this season.
     
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    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    Yeah, And I haven't looked into how that will work, maybe you have, but I can't think the 3.75 will be the hard cap hit, I would assume it would be 900k and then when the player earns the bonus his cap hit increases no? I mean the NHL, teams players etc all know its unrealistic that rookies will hit the group b bonuses, which is probably why there worth more, and are not capped where goup a you can only earn 850k even if you hit 5 bonuses at 212k each.. I understand your saying, with all the cloudiness surrounding it dont do it.. But the bruins have cap room next season with ryder and sturm, assuming we can fill those roles out of providence i would be ok carrying seguins bonus cushion into next season.  Ryder sturm and recchi free up 9m.. Assuming we can get chara back at the same or lower, and bergy for the same or lower I think the bruins are in ok shape next season.. They wont be in a position to make a huge splash unless its through trade, or they let chara and bergy walk, but they should have more freedom then this season.
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    We went through this in the 08/09 season if I'm not mistaken.  We also would've been facing it this year if the NHLPA hadn't exercised their option to extend the deal one more year.  It doesn't matter if it's likely, if it's possible it will count against the cap in a hard cap year.  As with Ryder and Sturm, I would hope that PC doesn't extend them for anywhere close to what they're making, if at all.  My fear is that a good chunk of that money will have to cover bonuses and we will not be able to replace them with players that are worth those salaries.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    The only way Ryder and/or Sturm returns is if none of the forward prospects they've stockpiled in the last three drafts can crack the lineup.  And if that's the case, we as Bruin fans have a much bigger issue to beyatch about than carry over amounts.  Hamill will probably be jettisoned unless they sign him to another 2 way deal sans bonuses.  Colborne, Caron, and Sauve will be on the Hamill path having spent a full season in Providence without showing that they're ready for the bigs.  You could cross out Lehtonen for good at that point.  Arniel will have spent two full years in the A.  That leaves Spooner and Knight.  Not where we want to be.

    So - I'd guess they're prepared for Ryder and Sturm to walk in most scenarios, meaning they're prepared to spend that bonus money this year and bring in young guys next year - even if those bonuses become hard cap hits.  The only wrench in that plan would be a serious cup run where Ryder or Sturm is the hero after a solid regular season.  I'm talking Cup finals, six games, three decided in OT.  But you know, in that scenario, the Bruins probably couldn't afford to bring them back anyway - sayonara suckers.

    On the other hand, there's no way the Bruins would be the only team in that predicament.  Take away the option to fill out your roster with low-salary young players and what's left?  Veteran free agents?  So the demand for Trent Whitfield, Metropolit, Moreau goes through the roof, driving their prices up...and who plays?

    Zach Hamill.  That's who.  The meek shall inherit the NHL.  By which I mean to say that if there is a doomsday year next year, the NHL will be under some kind of pressure to make concessions.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do? : It is illegal to have a guy on LTIR who is no longer injured.  No only is it unethical, it's also insurance fraud.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    Completely agree NAS to a certain degree, Glen Murray for instance won out in his case with the Bruins as a buyout.  Murray was LTIR but in my understanding the Bruins did not file for that status before the buyout.  The NHL will not bend on that interpretation, he was a buyout first.  Yet, if Sturm turns out to be an issue of NHL readiness well then the others are correct to say "spirit of the CBA".  The correct term is "intent of the law" which has been applied to the NHL CBA.  The Bruins are the team to determine LTIR with it's own physicians.  The NHL would challenge especially if another team wanted clarification on that status.  If the Bruins determine Sturm is unable to play with medical documentation with NHL approval then the intent of the law or CBA agreement is honored.  If the league on the other hand determines Sturm's injuries are not then the intent of the law or CBA is again honored.  The difference between those poles of thinking is the existence of variance.  The medical professionals would in fact be key to determine the intent or spirit of the CBA.  Thus it is very possible the LTIR can be a variance in thinking depending on the player and the medical positions.  LTIR is not as clear as one may think.  

    Parenthetically thinking, Sturm has two serious knee injuries one on each knee.  He very well could be a challenge to the definition of LTIR in the CBA.  

    13.9 Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan. A Player who is on the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception as set forth in Article 50 may, with his consent, during the term of such Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception (but in no event during the first fourteen (14) calendar days and six (6) NHL Games), be Loaned on a Conditioning Loan (the "Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan") for a period not to exceed up to the longer of six (6) days and three (3) games, solely for the purpose of determining whether the Player is fit to play. If the Club determines that it needs more time to assess the Player's fitness to play, the Club may file a written request by facsimile with the Commissioner's Office, with a copy to the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof, to extend the Loan for an additional two (2) games. The Commissioner, upon good cause, may approve the one- time extension. The Commissioner's approval shall not be unreasonably withheld. A Player on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception Conditioning Loan will continue to be listed on Injured Reserve and will not count against the Club's 23-man roster limit. The Club's Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception will continue until the Conditioning Loan ends, and his Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and Bonuses will continue to count against the Club's Upper Limit and the Players' Share during such time. The Commissioner may take whatever steps he deems necessary to investigate the circumstances under which a Player is placed on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan. If he has reason to believe or determines that the Club has used the Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan to evade Re-Entry Waivers or otherwise to Circumvent any provision of this Agreement, he may take other disciplinary action against the Club as he deems appropriate. A Bona Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Conditioning Loan may be extended on one occasion. This procedure can only be used once during each period of time that the Player is on a Bona Fide Long-Term Injury Exception.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do? : In the last season of the CBA there is no bonus cushion because technically there is no next year to carry over the penalty.  Therefore all bonuses become hard cap hits.  Without a provision to extend the deal and the owners wanting to re-negotiate, next season will be a hard cap year. 
    Posted by Raskman


    The CBA vote already happened  It's been extended.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?

    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do?:
    In Response to Re: State of the Cap: What would you do? : The CBA vote already happened  It's been extended.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    We were talking about next season.  If you read my next post, I already acknowledged the extension.
     

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