Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Cory Pronman of Premium Scouting and Kirk Luedecke both have their own top 10 list of our prospects.  I'm bored, there's been no news lately (other than that garbage Ryder and Hunwick for Neal proposal. sorry bro, but it was bad), and I want to see what you guys think fo the lists.  So without any more of my useless rambling:

    Pronman:
    1. Tyler Seguin C/W
    2. Joe Colborne RW
    3. Yuri Alexandrov D
    4. Jordan Caron RW
    5. Jared Knight RW
    6. Brad Marchand RW
    7. Zach Hamill C (NAS's favorite player of all time)
    8. Ryan Spooner C/W
    9. Maxim Sauve C/LW
    10. David Warsofsky D 

    Luedecke:
    1. Tyler Seguin C/W
    2. Joe Colborne C/RW
    3. Jordan Caron RW
    4. Maxim Sauve C/LW
    5. Jared Knight RW
    6. Ryan Button D
    7. Brad Marchand RW
    8. Ryan Spooner C/W
    9. Yuri Alexandrov
    10. Zach Hamill C
    What do you guys think?  Which list is more accurate?  Who should be higher/lower, or not on the list at all, or should be on the list?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    They're pretty much in agreement, aren't they? The only real difference appears to be Warsofsky vs. Button. Having seen Button the past couple of years at development camp, I agree with putting him in the top ten.

    I don't know what Pronman's criteria is, whether he's ranking these guys with an eye to potential or by how close he believes they are to contributing. I'd tend to agree more with Luedeke concerning Alexandrov, not because I think he's not a good prospect, but because I think he's a fair distance away.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from saultont. Show saultont's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Pronman has overated Hamill....not likely this guy will ever crack the Bruins in my opinion...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannyortez3424. Show mannyortez3424's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Pronman has overated Hamill....not likely this guy will ever crack the Bruins in my opinion...
    Posted by saultont[/QUOTE]

    Beat me to it...Hamill isn't gonna be a Bruin anytime soon, but still might have a little trade value...hint hint...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke : Beat me to it...Hamill isn't gonna be a Bruin anytime soon, but still might have a little trade value...hint hint...
    Posted by mannyortez3424[/QUOTE]

    Hamill has next to no trade value at this moment. It's a bit of a gamble, but I'd give him some time in Providence and hope he improves.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Prospect lists are usually by upside, not distance.  I think that's what they were both going for (illustrated by spooner and knight's placement).

    Here's my list

    Seguin
    Colborne
    Knight
    Sauve
    Alexandrov
    Caron*
    Button
    Spooner
    Penner
    Marchand*

    *this list was based exclusively on upside.  Had "NHL readiness" been considered, the asterisked guys would be considerably higher.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Hamill will play in the NHL in 2012 ...he just needs more time to adjust he has the skills, he can score, he is an excellent playmaker, his only weakness is his speed but guess what : remember Andeychuk , Tim Kerr ...even Michael Bossy were not the best skaters  ..I can see Hamill developping into a Adam Oates type of player ....

    Stanley cup to the Bruins in 2011-2012-2013 (3 cup in a row)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    I think i agree with drewski's list spot on.

    no way should suave have been that low on the list.  i think we'd sooner see him this season than hamil.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    wow...never thought id see a hamil-Oates comparison.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Hamill will play in the NHL in 2012 ...he just needs more time to adjust he has the skills, he can score, he is an excellent playmaker, his only weakness is his speed but guess what : remember Andeychuk , Tim Kerr ...even Michael Bossy were not the best skaters  ..I can see Hamill developping into a Adam Oates type of player .... Stanley cup to the Bruins in 2011-2012-2013 (3 cup in a row)
    Posted by StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011[/QUOTE]

    Hamill's biggest weakness is weakness. He still looks like a refugee from "Oliver Twist." I hope to God he's added some muscle to that scrawny frame, because he is a decent playmaker, and he does have some heart. But my word, Mike Bossy looks like the Incredible Hulk compared to Hamill. 

     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Hamill will play in the NHL in 2012 ...he just needs more time to adjust he has the skills, he can score, he is an excellent playmaker, his only weakness is his speed but guess what : remember Andeychuk , Tim Kerr ...even Michael Bossy were not the best skaters  ..I can see Hamill developping into a Adam Oates type of player .... Stanley cup to the Bruins in 2011-2012-2013 (3 cup in a row)
    Posted by StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011[/QUOTE]

    Stanley, I can see holding out for hamil, I don't know if you can call him an excellent play maker at this point as opposed to having "excellent vision" the difference being execution in my opinion,  but the guys you mention play a different game, and Oates was 2x the player that savard is, so that comparision is a bit of a reach..
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    2 things.  First, Stanley, I think you have an impersonator.  I saw someone with your same name and a similiarly stupid signature, but no picture.  It's alright though, he was equally as stupid.  And out of the guys you named, Andreychuk?  Really?  Like, honestly, the guy has a sh*t load of goals, and you think Zach Hamill could be like him?  Tim Kerr?  Who's that?  Bossy was a completely different player, and he wasn't an absolute flop in the minors like Hamill.  Oates?  You're kidding right?  Oates is one of the best centers to play the game, and you're comparing the likes of Zach Hamill to him?  Really?

    Second, here's my top 10 list, going by Drew's standards (which are the correct standards, the ones that should always be used):

    1. Tyler Seguin
    2. Joe Colborne
    3. Jared Knight
    4. Yuri Alexandrov
    5. Maxim Sauve
    6. Jordan Caron
    7. Ryan Button
    8. Ryan Spooner
    9. Brad Marchand
    10. David Warsofsky
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pissttt. Show pissttt's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]wow...never thought id see a hamil-Oates comparison.
    Posted by DaveyN[/QUOTE]..........hamil morphing into oates...WHAT!!!!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Jordan Caron ranked below Jordan Knight, Alexandrov and Sauve ? I don't think so Caron has the best chance of any prospect besides Seguin to make the team out of camp by far IMO. Jordan is a beast in the corners and when the game gets chippy n harder to play in.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    IT's intriguing how DEFINITE some of these perspectives are. Upside potential is all smoke, whereas " readiness is what pays the bills. Caron is ready; Sauve has yet to play regularly in the AHL; Alexandrov is a big maybe; Warsofsky is still at B.U.; and Jared Knight is still in Juniors. Colborne's performance showed more "possible" than just potential; and Button is 2/3 years younger than Alexandrov/Warsofsky, and is "Performing" more effectively. I'd prefer Luedecke's listing, but need more on Sauve to rate him so high.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bridgemanusa. Show bridgemanusa's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Jordan Caron ranked below Jordan Knight, Alexandrov and Sauve ? I don't think so Caron has the best chance of any prospect besides Seguin to make the team out of camp by far IMO. Jordan is a beast in the corners and when the game gets chippy n harder to play in.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    SanDog, I know it's a small sample but I watched all these kids on the ice at the rookie camp and to me, Knight was a far better shooter (amazing shot actually), passer and skater than Caron who actually looked a bit sluggish.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Jordan Caron ranked below Jordan Knight, Alexandrov and Sauve ? I don't think so Caron has the best chance of any prospect besides Seguin to make the team out of camp by far IMO. Jordan is a beast in the corners and when the game gets chippy n harder to play in.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Caron is more ready than anyone not named Seguin, but the lists should be made more on upside.  Caron is gonna be good, but nothing really spectacular.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Jordan Caron ranked below Jordan Knight, Alexandrov and Sauve ? I don't think so Caron has the best chance of any prospect besides Seguin to make the team out of camp by far IMO. Jordan is a beast in the corners and when the game gets chippy n harder to play in.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]


    read the thread, the lists are based on upside, not how close they are. Also, Jared Knight
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke : SanDog, I know it's a small sample but I watched all these kids on the ice at the rookie camp and to me, Knight was a far better shooter (amazing shot actually), passer and skater than Caron who actually looked a bit sluggish.
    Posted by bridgemanusa[/QUOTE]

    Well if you were at camp and saw something in Knight I will take your word on it Bridge. Where as I saw Caron in the QMJHL playoffs (not live but on the tele) "Tenacious" so we'll see.

    I have to admit I have not seen a ton of Knight so we'll see. Right now I say Caron has more upside than anyone not named Seguin. Hey if If Knight blows past Caron in the depth chart it's a good thing right ? Yep! 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]Pronman has overated Hamill....not likely this guy will ever crack the Bruins in my opinion...
    Posted by saultont[/QUOTE]


    Never mind the Bruins, not likely to crack the NHL.  Matter of fact, if his contract expired this year, I would not be in the least bit surprised if no one picked him up.

    re: his ONLY weakness?  are you shotting me?  Weak, slow, not physical, doesn't go into the dirty areas...
    his only talents are slightly better passing and vision.

    Wait.  This is so pointless to discuss this guy.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    I missed my calling as a public defender who gets called to defend stupid stuff.  Just because I like to.

    Adam Oates was never drafted.  Adam Oates didn't start playing pro hockey until he was two years older than Zach Hamill is now.  Adam Oates's prospects of a pro career were once minor enough that he chose to play pro lacrosse instead.  Therefore, Hamill=Oates 2?  No, obviously not. But if you were talking to a Red Wings fan when they signed him as a free agent, and you said Oates would one day have a 142 season and finish his career with over 1000 assists and 1400+ points, someone would have called you an idiot for the same reason people will call Stanley an idiot for the comparison here.

    Zach Hamill looks like the incredible Hulk next to Igor "Peter Weller" Larionov.

    Oh, and beantowngm?  Being under 20 excuses you from not having seen Tim Kerr play but it makes your inability to use Google more than inexplicable. (NAS had a macro that might help...). One of the best PP scorers ever, Kerr had 4 50+ goal seasons, two of them 58 goal campaigns, and missed 50 by two goals due to injury in another year (he finished with 48 in 69 games).  He was uncanny below the hash-marks.  He still holds the record for most PPG in a season with 34.


     Larionov or Robocop?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    lol, I just didn't feel like opening up another tab.  I'm kinda lazy today.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke : Never mind the Bruins, not likely to crack the NHL.  Matter of fact, if his contract expired this year, I would not be in the least bit surprised if no one picked him up. re: his ONLY weakness?  are you shotting me?  Weak, slow, not physical, doesn't go into the dirty areas... his only talents are slightly better passing and vision. Wait.  This is so pointless to discuss this guy.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    I have to disagree with the assertion that Hamill doesn't go into the dirty areas. There have been times watching him play I've wanted to cover my eyes because he does go into the dirty areas, and I always think he's going to get killed. He's not big, he's not strong, but he has the desire. I wish he had the body to go along with it.

    But he is young. He has good hockey sense. He still has a chance, though this is a huge year for him. I'm not prepared to write him off yet.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from KrayzieJoe. Show KrayzieJoe's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    We can all agree that the top 3 should be

    1. Tyler Seguin C/W
    2. Joe Colborne C/RW
    3. Jordan Caron RW
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 Bruins Prospects - Cory Pronman vs Kirk Luedecke

    Basically, Krayzie, that means that nothing's changed since these players were drafted.  First round picks remain the top players in terms of "up-side" - and that's where the whole idea of making a list only about "up-side" falls down.  What is anyone basing their definition of "up-side" on?  Probably past performance at lower levels + baseline physical qualities like size and skating.  Hamill gets killed on both counts in large part because he's had a rough ride in the AHL, but Colborne and Caron and Sauve all get a pass because they played non-pro environments and have yet to have the opportunity to provide either positive or negative data.  Plus, the younger guys are either big (Caron), fast (Sauve) or a bit of both (Colborne).

    If it were really this simple, Yannick Riendeau would be the top prospect because he had one monster playoffs/season.  After all, none of the other prospects ever put up 2 points/game over a season then almost 5 ppg in the playoffs.  But I've said repeatedly that Riendeau is at best a flier, a shot in the dark and not a real prospect.  I still think he has no shot.  Zach Hamill has a better shot.

    So you have to include, if not "NHL Readiness" but proximity to fulfilling his potential.  Otherwise, it's just pie.

     
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