Top 10 most skilled players TSN

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Is there a reason you're sticking up for NAS? Or do you just take a post on the most skilled hockey player of all time so seriously that you could not let my comments go without reply? NAS's pretentious comments bother me so I chirp him. Sorry if that offends you and your thirst for hockey insight.
    Posted by CanadianBruin[/QUOTE]


    You still have yet to add anything of value is my point, you haven't made one comment pertinent to hockey is my point his initial comment was indeed directed towards a discussion of hockey.. what if you do that, and then if his comments bother you, you can come up with some kind of retort as opposed to name calling over the internet.. Your only making yourself look bad but hey, its your call.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Hands Down ORR!!! Missing Fighting, oh that goes to Orr as well and not Colton. Passing does not mean assists. They used to run skills competitions in the 70's, wish I had links to prove it but I don't so you will have to take my word. This competition had these fake players on the ice and the player had to start from behind net and pass to these dumbies all the way up the ice. Where the sticks were there was a paper cover and to get the points you had to break the paper.  Orr was downright sick at this and there were a lot of great passers in the league and noone could even touch him. To bring a game down to just points then Gretzky wins, yes he holds the records for the most...blah blah blah. To have actually watched the game and all the players play, Orr's talent was just so unbeleivable and that is why these debates even go on, because it is just sick to think how good he was that people try to compare to him. I remember back in 90's when the so called experts tried to compare Leetch to Orr when he had a bunch of points in his first 5-10 games, absolutely laughable. When you can say you seen Pepe le Pew or Whinee skate inside their own blue lines(let alone the red lines) or behind their own nets or in own corners to chase down a puck consistantly, and through 40 mins a game, then there is just no point in debating because it never happened. Lemieux and Gretzky put up the points but any GM that would say they would pick them over Orr, either never watched them all play shift in and shift out, are related to them or buddies.
    Posted by No4BobbyOrr-GOAT[/QUOTE]

    Like I said talent is debatable, would it be absurd to say orr wasted some of his talent by playing so physical?  I agree on talent most GM's might take orr, he is far better then your next option on defense I mean thats not even close, If he never played the debate might be "larry robinson, nick lindstrom and ray bourque, who was the best d man of all time"... And you can find other great great forwards, but its all opinion.. Then again though, if your looking to build a team around the guy, your not just talking individual talent..  No other defensemen has ever had that top end offensive talent, and as well as that defensive skill set..I would probably say bourque is the 2nd best in my opinion, and he never won a scoring title so..

    I don't really have an opinion on the most talented player guys are just too different, but there is something to be said with staying healthy as well.. So, I will stick with the side step, yet related, and really undebatable answer, the gretkzy dominated hockey in a way no athelte will dominate another sport..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]

    gretkzy dominated hockey in a way no athelte will dominate another sport..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    In Edmonton, he had one Mark Messier to help him, don't forget. And they won 4 Cups.

    After leaving Edmonton:  Gretzky - zero Cups; Messier - 2.

    Do you call that domination?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Potvin was the closest to Orr then the rest.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Canbostondoit. Show Canbostondoit's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    All I know is that Orr was the one who brought two cups to the Bruins when I was young kid. Because of that I became a Boston fan and that to me is why Orr is the greatest period. Lets go Bruins hockey season is just around the corner. I am a Canadian Boston fan have or had a lot talented athletes in the city and still do. I grew up watching the Bird and Carl Yaz by the way is he not last one to let me think to do one baseball feat everyone knows what it is, because of these three athletes I became a Celtics Bruins Red Sox fan.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    This debate will go on forever.  But since we're talking about 'skill', I have an different way at looking at this. albeit unconventional.

    Ofcourse this is all conjecture on my part but here goes....
    I submit that if you could have put Bobby Orr at center, he would have been equally amazing in terms of goal and assist production, likely even higher!

    You could not have put Lemieux or Gretsky at defense and seen simliar results, not even close.

    It requires much more skill to be an mpact offensive player on defense then an impact offensive player on forward.

    Again this is conjecture and unconventional, but if we are talking pure hockey talent, Orr would have had the pure talent to excel at any position (not including net).  Lemieux and Gretsky would not.

    So in my mind, when you talk about skill level......no one compares to Orr in my opinion. 

    I'm glad some of you brought up the tragic knee operations and that he accomplished a lot on 1 leg essentially. 

    Just look at what he did in the Canada Cup on 1 leg (still voted the MVP of that tournament against the best players in the world at that time).  It boggles the mind at what he would have finished up with and how long he would have played had he been healthy all those years.

    If you watched all these players play in their prime, I can't imagine anyone NOT taking Orr as #1.

    I also agree with No4Bobby regarding Dennis Potvin.  Not as good as Orr, but he was an incredible talent and played with an edge (one of the best open ice hitters of his period).  He should be right up there......
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    I have come to upset the apple cart.

    A major part of being a superstar hockey player is the ability to play.  Another part is having the ability to stay healthy.

    Neither Orr or Lemieux had the body that could stand the rigors of life in the NHL for a full career.

    Gretzky did.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]I have come to upset the apple cart. A major part of being a superstar hockey player is the ability to play.  Another part is having the ability to stay healthy. Neither Orr or Lemieux had the body that could stand the rigors of life in the NHL for a full career. Gretzky did.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    The word "ability" would imply that the athlete has all control over staying healthy. Too much of it is just luck or misfortune.
    I am not discounting the players' ability to stay healthy. Gretzky was adept at ducking hits and rolling off or absorbing a hit when he did take one in a way that minimized the chance of injury.
    Orr and Mario were, in part, just unfortunate.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]I have come to upset the apple cart. A major part of being a superstar hockey player is the ability to play.  Another part is having the ability to stay healthy. Neither Orr or Lemieux had the body that could stand the rigors of life in the NHL for a full career. Gretzky did.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
    I can agree to this, to a point.
    A clear weakness of Orr was that he was a bit reckless crossing the middle.
    Check this out (I'm sure Bruin Fans remember this).  A dirty knee on knee hit
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF0BNlSwlCo.

    Gretsky was much smarter in terms of avoiding those kind of hits.

    Having said that, a hit like the one you see in the link above would destroy just about anyone's knee.  Sad to see that clip even today......

    But some of the more fonder memories
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uRzIQUE_o0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSDw3tMa7ec
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Also, as I posted earlier, it's difficult (i.e. impossible) to compare players from one erea to another. Half the posters here probably never saw Orr play. But for those of us old enough and lucky enough, it was a thing of beauty, wasn't it?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]I would have picked Bourque over Potvin, but not by much Potvin was a very underrated player better hitter than Bourque better point getter but that's where it ends Bourque was better at keeping the puck in the enemies zone on pp he was faster , overall he was the better defenseman.   Orr had no equals, Bobby Clarke said it best if there was league for superstars Orr would be the best there. I saw Orr do something against the Habs, when Rogie Vachon was in net before Dryden I have Orr’s greatest rushes at home I’m surprised they didn’t include this one he went end to end like he usually does, but he did at high speed and he went through the entire team doing his spin-arama move at full speed, all Vachon could say was he saw Orr coming up at him at about 100 miles an hr. & boom the puck was in the net. Whether it’s skilled best player who ever lived skating, puck handling, passing no one but no one touched Orr. And if had good knees or was born in 60’s no one ever dare question who was the greatest because by then the argument would have been futile!
    Posted by petermind[/QUOTE]
    I guess it's part of the fun of being a fan is debating topics like this.

    For the record, I think I'd pick Potvin over Bourque.  I'd also pick Coffey over Bourque.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]
     
    Another part is having the ability to stay healthy. Neither Orr or Lemieux had the body that could stand the rigors of life in the NHL for a full career. Gretzky did.

    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Gretzky was helped by the fact that he played lacrosse as a kid, learning to roll with the checks. But he did not play in the manner of Lemieux or even Orr. He shied away from all contact.

    If you remeber the 74 Finals, Bobby Clarke was allowed to take liberties on Bobby Orr that would have netted him 25-years in jail without parole; that was the only reason the Flyers won.

    Lemieux was under the same circumstances with Penguins. That kind of stuff, however, never happened to Gretzky because the rest of the Oilers looked out for him, especially Messier and Semenko.

    So, Mr. Gretzky had it easier than the other two, and consequently lasted longer because of it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]Also, as I posted earlier, it's difficult (i.e. impossible) to compare players from one erea to another. Half the posters here probably never saw Orr play. But for those of us old enough and lucky enough, it was a thing of beauty, wasn't it?
    Posted by WalkTheLine[/QUOTE]

    Amen.

    I saw Gretzky in his prime more often (proximity), and that, too, was an amazing thing to see.  Mario too.  The silliest thing about this argument is that you felt, watching any of these three, that no one else could do what they did.  Jagr did a pretty good Mario Jr. (and how weird is it that that's an anagram for Jaromir?) for a while....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Messier was the guy you had to really worry about.  Semenko would pound guys if they too liberties with Gretzky, but Messier was an assassin.  He went in for old school two of yours for one of ours revenge.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    My favourite pasta is penne or rigatoni with spice tomato sause and lots of parmeggio cheese.

    This thread has agitated me and made me hungry.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Ovechkin scores some hilarious goals, but I don't think he's come close to surpassing Lemieux as a scorer as yet.  And while Mario didn't exactly take the body, his whopping assist totals give him leverage if you're arguing relative merits.

    Coffey and Potvin better than Bourque.  GTFOH!  Coffey was the more dynamic offensive player on, let's face it, the more stacked and dynamic offensive teams.  His career #s come out to 1.086 points per game.  Bourque played on less-dynamic offensive teams.  I doubt anyone will argue he was better defensively (almost flawless for long stretches), a better hitter, and a better leader (Captain for 15 seasons).  And still his ppg is 0.98.  that means that, over 100 games, Coffey would score 10-11 more points.  Hardly enough to out-weigh everything else Bourque was good at.  Pure skills, well, maybe, but even then....  Potvin was closer to Bourque across the board, but Bourque was better offensively and more consistently defensively for longer even though Potvin's best points season (101 points in only 73 games!) top Bourque's best (96 points in 78 games).

    Finally, after reading through this looooong thread and seeing Michelle Ribeiro and Kovalev cited...isn't "most skilled" usually the label they stick on a guy whose impact doesn't match his perceived skill set?  Bryan Fogarty was incredibly skilled.  Bryan Berard had superlative skills.  Marius Jerkoffski?  Man did that guy have soft hands....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Rhetorical question. What relevance does individual skill have in a team game ? Alexei Kovalev might be one of the most individually talented players that I have ever seen. Team player ? Orr was the best ever, of course.
    Posted by RMiller87[/QUOTE]

    I did not create the thread nor did I make the comment (without any rationale on why Crosby is the most skilled).  I think most of these rankings are just hockey interest stories during a period of little hockey news.  I was just pointing out the others who were considered and are playing currently, maybe you work for the Toronto Sun or THN or heaven forbid SI.  Agreed on the team player issue nonetheless.  Your one liner was not real clear, now it is.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Wow! Have you ever seen Orr play in person? I guess he'll be controlling the power play from behind the net? If Gretzky and Orr were playing shinny, do you honestly believe Gretzky would ever have the puck? How would he get the puck away from Orr? With Dave Semenko's help, maybe?
    Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]


    Ohhhhhhhhhhh, we were talking about shinny? My bad, I thought we were discussing who was more effective in the NHL. Silly me.
    Also, your point about Gretzky shying away from contract. You put up 215 points and you can shy away from as much contact as you want
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : this may have been the most riduculous comment I have ever read!
    Posted by petermind[/QUOTE]


    We get it, you like Orr over Gretzky, but NAS has a valid point. I think Gretzky was just smart enough to avoid situations where he would get badly injured, injuries are part of hockey, i fail to see how injury prevention is not a skill just like skating and shooting.

    The fact that you fail to acknowledge how amazing Gretzky's production was is beyond me.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN


    74-75 season  46 goals - 89 assists - 135 pts - 101 pim

    Putting up those numbers while winning the Norris Trophy
    All with devastating knee injuries

    pretty "effective"
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:[QUOTE]I think he was trying to make the point that you can change the game without being considered the best ever.Posted by OlsonicCreations[/QUOTE]

    Hextall changed the game for goalies ? I watched allot of Flyer (plus the other teams Ron was on) games on TV and in person but did not see this. I wouldn't put Hextall in my top 20 all time goalies not even my top 5 in the 80's or 90's.

    Guess it's a matter of opinion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    in his most productive season, gretzky created more goals than 11 teams had in the NHL last season. I know its a different era of the game, but still
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : this may have been the most riduculous comment I have ever read!
    Posted by petermind[/QUOTE]

    Go back and read the threads around the draft and the start of free agency.  There you will find thing that are truly ridiculous (not just things you don't understand or don't agree with).
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]You're right, I don't agree with your coment. Injuries are a feeble excuse for judging a persons talent especially someone as talented as Orr was! Orr was the best there was he would have been as dominate today as he was in the 70's even in todays style of play. It wouldn't have made a difference, he was just too good for the league! 
    Posted by petermind[/QUOTE]

    and gretzky wasn't?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    SanDog - I think he's referring to this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JHSXkD98_k
     

Share