Top 10 most skilled players TSN

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]You're right, I don't agree with your coment. Injuries are a feeble excuse for judging a persons talent especially someone as talented as Orr was! Orr was the best there was he would have been as dominate today as he was in the 70's even in todays style of play. It wouldn't have made a difference, he was just too good for the league! 
    Posted by petermind[/QUOTE]

    I think in order to be the transcendent best player ever, the player's body would have to sustain more than eight seasons.

    There is no soul on Earth, in Heaven or in Hades that would question Orr's talent.  In the category of "best ever", however, just being talented isn't enough.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pbergeron37. Show pbergeron37's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    NAS we don't always agree, but your right on on this one
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    There is another hit like that one on Orr by Barber of Phi, the whole league chased him and couldn't hit him so they used the legs to get him. This head hunting was not availed on any other player like Orr was targeted in any era.

    If you are going on longevity then I guess Howe wins hands down and he wasn't even the best in his era, but oh yeah he had the points and goals record back then and Chelios must be the best D.

    The road runner Cournyer considered the fastest in the league told a story about Orr behind the Habs net and passing it to someone out front and it coming to him at the blue line and he turned with it and Orr caught him at the other blue line and he still couldn't believe when he went to the bench that anyone caught him, let alone from that far behind after rushing the puck all the way down the ice.

    Yeah I could just see Grets floating back to center waiting for the next breakout pass, at least Le Pew back checked the odd time.

    Global(Canada) had this analyst Darren Hebscher? who had at the end of sportsline the Hebbsies the best plays of the day. One night in the 80's this kid I believe from the Leafs nailed Grets at center ice and Grets went head over teakettle, a complete somersault and the kid never played another game in the league. I imagine there must be some oldtimer that can remember this.
     
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    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    NAS PB/DK agrees with you does that mean you will change your mind.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]There is another hit like that one on Orr by Barber of Phi, the whole league chased him and couldn't hit him so they used the legs to get him. This head hunting was not availed on any other player like Orr was targeted in any era. If you are going on longevity then I guess Howe wins hands down and he wasn't even the best in his era, but oh yeah he had the points and goals record back then and Chelios must be the best D. The road runner Cournyer considered the fastest in the league told a story about Orr behind the Habs net and passing it to someone out front and it coming to him at the blue line and he turned with it and Orr caught him at the other blue line and he still couldn't believe when he went to the bench that anyone caught him, let alone from that far behind after rushing the puck all the way down the ice. Yeah I could just see Grets floating back to center waiting for the next breakout pass, at least Le Pew back checked the odd time. Global(Canada) had this analyst Darren Hebscher? who had at the end of sportsline the Hebbsies the best plays of the day. One night in the 80's this kid I believe from the Leafs nailed Grets at center ice and Grets went head over teakettle, a complete somersault and the kid never played another game in the league. I imagine there must be some oldtimer that can remember this.
    Posted by No4BobbyOrr-GOAT[/QUOTE]

    Mark Hebscher was the sportscaster. Bill McCreary was the player who nailed Gretzky. This oldtimer watched that game.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oxwUo1T9E
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    B.Orr  70-71 season +124 ! 

    insane

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : I think in order to be the transcendent best player ever, the player's body would have to sustain more than eight seasons. There is no soul on Earth, in Heaven or in Hades that would question Orr's talent.  In the category of "best ever", however, just being talented isn't enough.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    Would Ray Bourque's 20+ seasons make him the best ever Bruin defenceman compared with Orr ? Both were terrific players but based on 'just being talented' Orr should have no business being regarded as the best Bruin defenceman ever according to your comments. Orr's 631 games with 888 points compared with Bourque's 1581 games played with 1506 points as a Bruin.  Or how about Cam Neely ? Does his 524games as a Bruin disqualify him as the B's best forward of all time compared to players who had more points as a Bruin because of more games played ? A lot of posters picked either Orr or Neely as their top Bruin of all time on another thread. Should we tell them that these two shouldn't have been picked by them because their bodies couldn't sustain the careers of other Bruins who had careers with more points and lasted longer ? I think that longevity does play a part but not as big a part as you said it does. For me it's the quality of play of a players career whether he played 9 seasons or 19 seasons. Quality over quantity IMO.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Would Ray Bourque's 20+ seasons make him the best ever Bruin defenceman compared with Orr ? Both were terrific players but based on 'just being talented' Orr should have no business being regarded as the best Bruin defenceman ever according to your comments. Orr's 631 games with 888 points compared with Bourque's 1581 games played with 1506 points as a Bruin.  Or how about Cam Neely ? Does his 524games as a Bruin disqualify him as the B's best forward of all time compared to players who had more points as a Bruin because of more games played ? A lot of posters picked either Orr or Neely as their top Bruin of all time on another thread. Should we tell them that these two shouldn't have been picked by them because their bodies couldn't sustain the careers of other Bruins who had careers with more points and lasted longer ? I think that longevity does play a part but not as big a part as you said it does. For me it's the quality of play of a players career whether he played 9 seasons or 19 seasons. Quality over quantity IMO.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    In my opinion, longevity is a factor.  It doesn't carry more weight than skill level or PPG, but it does carry weight.

    The good news is that the subject is subjective.  There isn't an exact formula, especially when comparing different positions and different eras. 
     
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    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Mark Hebscher was the sportscaster. Bill McCreary was the player who nailed Gretzky. This oldtimer watched that game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oxwUo1T9E
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    That's one hit there is another right at center, I'm upmixing hits, not sure of the fellow though.

    You are 100% on it being Mark, he is on another station now and looks like death and he is only young. And poor Bill played his last game, I remember that like it was only 29 years ago coming on 30.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveTheBruins. Show LoveTheBruins's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]never seen orr live, did see mario and to this day he was the most skilled...everyone always talks how gretzky 92 goal record will never be broke well lemiuex wouldve broken that maybe 2 times   1st in 1992-93 he had 69 goals in just 60 games  and 2nd in 1988-89 he had 85 goals in 76 games (199 total pts)  wouldve been very close my friends 
    Posted by bruins8[/QUOTE]


    Staying healthy is part of the game and The Great One remained remarkably healthy throughout his career.   Ask Cal Ripken.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : That's one hit there is another right at center, I'm upmixing hits, not sure of the fellow though. You are 100% on it being Mark, he is on another station now and looks like death and he is only young. And poor Bill played his last game, I remember that like it was only 29 years ago coming on 30.
    Posted by No4BobbyOrr-GOAT[/QUOTE]

    CHCH out of Hamilton is the station where Hebscher's at.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : In my opinion, longevity is a factor.  It doesn't carry more weight than skill level or PPG, but it does carry weight. The good news is that the subject is subjective.  There isn't an exact formula, especially when comparing different positions and different eras. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough . I agree it does carry some weight . I think just because some careers are longer doesn't mean that they are better then others. Most times the last years of a players career do nothing more then increase their numbers while playing below their level of excellence of what they had played previously because of hanging on too long.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Most of my favorite collision-sport players had shortened careers - Orr, Sayers, Jackson, Neely etc. Bourque's an exception.  I don't put a whole lot of stock in longevity, even longevity at a high level.  Consistency at a high level, yes, but if injuries shorten a career, well that's sad but the player was still great and you have to live with the regret that you didn't get to see more. 

    Just to clarify that.  A guy who plays 20 seasons as a 30 goal scorer is a heck of a player, but not great despite his 600 goals (Mike Gartner).  A guy who has one or two seasons where he's "great" then plays 15 years and doesn't hit that level again doesn't make my list.  But a guy who is consistently great over 6 or 7 years, or even 4-5, and only has that run of greatness killed by catastrophic injuries, then that's a different matter.  Then I think you look at that player as a being what he is/was before the injuries.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Fair enough . I agree it does carry some weight . I think just because some careers are longer doesn't mean that they are better then others. Most times the last years of a players career do nothing more then increase their numbers while playing below their level of excellence of what they had played previously because of hanging on too long.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    I never stated that if a career is longer then the player is better.  That's something that you created from something I posted and then went on a big rant about.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Well NAS, you did manage to upset the apple cart as intended.

    You're wrong of course. Longevity (via health) has no relationship to "most skilled" providing the player was on the ice enough to establish his skill level over a period of time. Orr absolutely did that so the fact that Gretzky played longer is irrelevant.

    I think your desire to be a contrarian defeated your logic here.

    Now, who's going to pick up all these apples! lol 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Personally, I always thought the line from Good Will Hunting should have been:

    Hey!  Hey!  You like apples?  Yeah?

    Well F**K YOU!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]Well NAS, you did manage to upset the apple cart as intended. You're wrong of course. Longevity (via health) has no relationship to "most skilled" providing the player was on the ice enough to establish his skill level over a period of time. Orr absolutely did that so the fact that Gretzky played longer is irrelevant. I think your desire to be a contrarian defeated your logic here. Now, who's going to pick up all these apples! lol 
    Posted by WalkTheLine[/QUOTE]

    Your inability to either read or comprehend has defeated your argument.  Never did I suggest that the "most skilled" was tied to longevity. 

    If you had followed the thread, you'd have seen the conversation had shifted from most skilled to best of all time.

    Statements such as this should have tipped you off:

    [QUOTE] I think in order to be the transcendent best player ever, the player's body would have to sustain more than eight seasons. There is no soul on Earth, in Heaven or in Hades that would question Orr's talent.  In the category of "best ever", however, just being talented isn't enough.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    Okay, here's a shot at numerical comparison just for the purposes of suggesting how trancendent Orr was.

    In his two best years, 70-71 and 74-75, Orr had 139 and 135 points.

    In 70-71 he finished second in the scoring race to Esposito, who had 152 points.  The next highest scoring defenseman that year was Mtl's J.C. Tremblay with 63 points.  That's 41.4% of the points Esposito had.  If you take that as an indication that the best scoring D of that era scored at that rate vs. the top forwards, you can use that percentage to convert Orr's points to forward production - that is, 139 points for a defenseman equates to X production from a Forward.  Yeah, there are plenty of variables, plenty of things you'd have to take into account to think of this as in any way scientific - but this is what it looks like.

    139 points by a defenseman in 70-71 = 335 points by a forward.

    In 74-75, Potvin was the second highest scoring D with 76 points, which was 59.8% of the points tallied by the highest scoring forward - Espo again with 127.  Of course, the scoring title went to Orr that year.

    135 points by a defenseman in 74-75 = 225 points by a forward.

    So in both seasons, you could make a case that Orr's scoring prowess exceeded Gretzky's incredible 215 points in 85-86.  The highest scoring defenseman that year was Paul Coffey - that was the year he cracked Orr's goals record for defenseman - with 138 or 64.1% of Gretzky's league-leading totals. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : In my opinion, longevity is a factor.  It doesn't carry more weight than skill level or PPG, but it does carry weight. The good news is that the subject is subjective.  There isn't an exact formula, especially when comparing different positions and different eras. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps I should have directly replied to this post. Sorry for the confusion. The topic drift aside, my point is still valid.

    No need for the attitude.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Your inability to either read or comprehend has defeated your argument.  Never did I suggest that the "most skilled" was tied to longevity.  If you had followed the thread, you'd have seen the conversation had shifted from most skilled to best of all time. Statements such as this should have tipped you off:
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    And when you made your apple cart statement...the topic was still most skilled.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]Personally, I always thought the line from Good Will Hunting should have been: Hey!  Hey!  You like apples?  Yeah? Well F**K YOU!
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    HA! That's great, Book! I think that made my morning. Awesome movie by the way.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN : Perhaps I should have directly replied to this post. Sorry for the confusion. The topic drift aside, my point is still valid. No need for the attitude.
    Posted by WalkTheLine[/QUOTE]

    And that post was also on the subject of "the best ever".
     
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    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]NAS we don't always agree, but your right on on this one
    Posted by pbergeron37[/QUOTE]

    Should not interject, but one of the factors is the medical care given to Orr as compared to a player like for instance Lemieux.  If Orr had surgery on those knees in the 90s or even today he would have played at least 5 more years.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    There is too much name-calling in this post. We don't need it.

    As I said before, this post has me agitated. Everyone is running off on different tangents. The post says "skilled", not "best ever", not "most points", not "who played the longest".

    The skills are: Skating, speed, puckhandling, passing, shooting, and checking. Period. There is nothing else involved.

    When comparing all the players under this criteria, Orr comes out on top in each category. If he doesn't you are letting other factors into your consideration.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN

    In Response to Re: Top 10 most skilled players TSN:
    [QUOTE]There is too much name-calling in this post. We don't need it. As I said before, this post has me agitated. Everyone is running off on different tangents. The post says "skilled", not "best ever", not "most points", not "who played the longest". The skills are: Skating, speed, puckhandling, passing, shooting, and checking. Period. There is nothing else involved. When comparing all the players under this criteria, Orr comes out on top in each category. If he doesn't you are letting other factors into your consideration.
    Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    Once again I agree with you, and if he is best in these categories and 8 years and Norris's later I would tend to say best ever as well.

    Someone's comment earlier as well, 5 Orrs 5Gretz 5 Lemieuxs who would win.  Who do you want in the game when the game means something, yes all of them, but my money is on Orr. He still holds the fastest OT winner in Stanley cup history and scored the only 2 winners for the B's in my lifetime. With all the goals Grets and Lem have Grets has the only winner between them.

    It can be said for Orr that the B's never won anything after he left , same for Lem,  but Edm won 2 years after Gretz was gone.  Would the B's have won without Orr no way, Pit maybe, Edm did.

    None of them were the first star in every game they played, but Orr never toook a game let alone a shift off. Gretz especially, and Lem also capitalized on opposition breakdowns, but Orr caused the breakdowns.

    I know it is impossible to sway the Gretz lovers, because they can never see past the points and yes he def put them up, but I will always try.

    No.4 Bobby Orr - THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!
     

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