Re: TT- The Vezina, The Contract, The Data
posted at 7/25/2010 12:00 PM EDT
In Response to Re: TT- The Vezina, The Contract, The Data
In Response to Re: TT- The Vezina, The Contract, The Data : I beg to differ sir! SP is the way to decide what's considered good goaltending. When you're in the 0.900 percentile your considered to be doing the job. You're stopping the ones you should & 2-4 that are great. Every defense breaks down no matter what. Also, a goalie makes mistakes just as well as a defenseman, or forward does. You blame TT on Walkers goal, I blame Rask on JVR's goal. So they cancel out. You still can't take away any of TT's stats, or the history he's made as a Boston Bruin, no matter how much you hate, no matter how much you B^tch & whine, you can't change FACTS! You also have to remember EDDY!! That the era's & equipment maybe different, but the shots are also coming much harder & faster then EVER! I play goal & someone who can hardly skate, can fire the puck 80mph with these new sticks! So I think TT is doing fine job where he is & THE STATS ARE FACTS!!!
Posted by Neelybestallaround
You may beg to differ but you're wrong. I'm not going to get into a big discussion about statistical corrections other than to say reading the back of a hockey card from 1980 and one from 2010 does not give you the same information. The size of a goalie's equipment has changed dramatically. 30-40 years ago, they wore less than some defensemen wear now. 30 years ago, you had maybe 1 or 2 teams playing a defensive trap style game, now you have maybe 1 or 2 that don't.
Simply put, save % changes over eras. Go ahead and look at the Vezina winners through the 80s, I dare you. Their save % and GAA wouldn't even put them in the top 10 and probably not even in the top 20 yet some of these guys (Roy, Fuhr) are amongst the best that ever played the position. Don't believe me? Go watch some of the games instead of quoting your hockey card stats.
So if you want to compare Thomas to Bruins goalies of the past - do it right. Compare how Thomas tenure (not just his Vezina season) with the Bruins compares to goalies of this era. Now go back and do the same for the other guys quoted. Hockeydb.com is a good place to get all the necessary stats. If after that, Thomas comes out to be better than any former Bruins goalie, I'll admit I'm wrong.
Lastly, on the shots getting harder front, what you say simply isn't true. While the average joe can shoot harder with composite sticks, nothing in what's known of NHL history suggests players are shooting harder today than they were in previous eras. Nobody even officially recorded how hard shots were until about 20 years ago so you can't say that shots are harder now than ever before if they were never recorded. It's a decent assumption to make because players are bigger but it's by no means definitive. Absence of data does not mean shots weren't hard. When they actually started officially measuring and recording shot speed in the all-stars skills competition, guys like McInnins and Iafrate who were known for years to have shots that you just didn't get in front of, each clocked in shots in excess of a 100+ MPH slapshot, which is still faster than almost anyone today (Iafrate's official record of hardest shot actually held up for 16 years and only 2 other players have ever had an officially recorded harder shot). But if you want to get the hardest shot ever, you have to really take a time trip back to the 60s. Time Magazine reported in 1968 that Bobby Hull unloaded a slapshot of 118.3 MPH (recognized as the hardest ever although not officially recorded), which is a Mustang compared to Big Z's pony ride of 105.4 MPH. Bobby Hull's wrist shots were routinely reported as topping 100 MPH, something nobody can do today. So there really isn't much data to support the notion that NHL players shoot harder now and that this somehow makes it harder on the goalies.
Do yourself a favor and learn some hockey history instead of just spouting off about the backside of a hockey card.