Wheeler and arbitration

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickrand3. Show rickrand3's posts

    Wheeler and arbitration

    like most posters on this board I was extremely upset with Wheeler's play this year. His game showed a total lack of passion and most night when I was watching I barely recognized the guy until he stated to the Bruins bench for a line change. Quite frankly the guy was invisible and Wheeler type of players are a dime a dozen. So here's my question: can PC and the Bruins walk away and decline the arbiters decision on Wheeler and let him walk after the decision?And would the Bruins save cap space in that event? I mean does it really matter if the Bruins don't get anything for Wheeler so they could save cap space?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    Yes, they can just walk away.

    No, it's not a good idea.

    Talent is more valuable than unused cap space.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NumbaFouwer. Show NumbaFouwer's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    Wheeler as is, can score 20 goals per season. Sometimes players don't come around until their 3rd or 4th seasons. GMs know this, thus PC will sign him. If PC needs to trade him, he should be able to get at least a 2nd round pick back.  

    Wheeler can also be used to sweeten up a trade (say with Ference for example) that can be used to free up cap space if needed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    I'm thinking 2.5 Mil but it could be higher 3.5, if the latter's the case they need to cut him loose I like Wheeler, I think he can be a good player in this league but even based on Blake's upside the way he timidly backs away from the rough stuff and his nonaggressive approach to the game that worries me!
    Posted by lemondropper


    Luc Robitaille was never known to get his nose dirty.  Would you have jettisoned him for a non-aggressive approach also?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : Luc Robitaille was never known to get his nose dirty.  Would you have jettisoned him for a non-aggressive approach also?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Wheeler=Robitaille?  Get that second cup in before posting. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    I think everyone had high hopes for Wheeler (and I dont just mean everyone here, I mean everyone in the hockey world).  I remember how much media coverage he got when the Coyotes picked him up, how he was going to possibly be this "force" because of his size and skill, etc.  I think Wheeler will always be what he is:  A Phil Kessel of sorts who has a ton of talent (PLUS size) but lacks the intestinal fortitude to elevate his game and the players around him.

    I cant figure out if its conditioning, the fact that he is still a kid who hasnt adjusted from the college game or what, but I think at this point right now youre seeing the REAL Blake Wheeler.  He is a ghost in general, who at times can looking AMAZING, but only scores 15-20 goals.

    IF, and its a big if, its the adjustmen period and he DOES come around, he could be an Iginla type player.  Im 60/40 with him being what he is.  If arbitration awards him anything over 2 mil, Im not sure the Bruins should hold onto him.  I think they could trade him easily, but his 20 goals will be missed (although Horton and Seguin should pick up the slack).  I think arbitration is a joke.  I was looking at some arbiration awards the other day, and there were guys getting like 3 mil I had never heard of who had AHL type stats.  I think the league is going overboard with arbitrators and Im not sure how they figure it out, but Ive got a bad feeling Wheeler is going to be awarded like 3+ mil.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    It's posible that Chiarelli will want to keep Wheels at about 2.5-2.8. If he opts for arbitration after this weekend, then he , and his agent are looking at 3.5 which is too much for his talent at this point in time. That's Kreji money, and while we know that local U.S.A. kids think money grows on trees, and their talent is immense, an arbitrator must listen to all sides, and Wheeler may not like the Bruins critique and their list of his shortcomings. Management doesn't like arbitration because their assesssment might make the player pout and sulk. Let's hope this weekend's meetings are a compromise acceptable to both.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrbruin4. Show mrbruin4's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    Wheelers upside out weighs last years below avg season. He is an easy player to trade if PC decides not to keep.

    We know he is not going anywhere.  he team you see is the 2010/11 Bruins    With the exception of one player that is most likly named Ryder
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    Clarke MacArthur was awarded $2.4M for 16 goals and 19 assists.  I'm pretty sure Wheeler will get at least that amount for 18 goals and 20 assists.  I have to think letting Wheeler walk while keeping Ryder is a long term mistake. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    I just have such a bad feeling about arbitration, like the team is going to get screwed over because of it.  I dont know why, but I just have a bad feeling theyre going to "award" him 3+mil.  We'll see.....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : Wheeler=Robitaille?  Get that second cup in before posting. 
    Posted by scooter244


    My post doesn't compare the overall skills of Robitaille and Ryder.  My post compares both wingers lack of aggression.  If the context is "aggressiveness", then yes, Wheeler = Robitaille.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mutant211. Show Mutant211's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if Wheeler goes to arbitration and the Bruins sign him for the awarded amount, they cannot trade him for the first year of his new contract.

    As far as the Wheeler/Robitaille comparison, I just have this to say: I never remember watching Lucky Luc play and thinking to myself "Wow, he looks like he's afraid of getting hurt out there."  I said that to myself every other game watching Wheeler play last season.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    I've mentioned this thought on other blogs, but, Think it's worth stating once again. Wheels came to the Bruins right from college; he was pictured as an immense talent due to size, speed, and skill at that level. He always skated around trouble and confrontation; with college coaching emphasis on avoiding fights and the full scale armor, including full face masks, avoidence was goodness and success. With Thornton, Lucic, etc. why would he want to change??or even know how??? It is up to the Bruins coaching staff to develop this young player who never had the advantage of Juniors to provide fore checking and puck control. So far, the asst. coaches have not been able to transmit effectively. It's not really CJ's job, so maybe Chiarelli should hire Rick Tocchet or someone like Rick. This staff had the same challenge with Kessel, but their failure has resulted in Seguin/McKnight etc.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    If Wheeler is awarded more than 2.75Mil the Bruins should walk away. Another year of multiple offside games and weak aggression is not worth anything more.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    If Wheeler is awarded more than 2.75Mil the Bruins should walk away. Another year of multiple offside games and weak aggression is not worth anything more.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    If his award is around the 3 million mark the the choice comes down to Wheeler or Ryder.  Personally, I'll take Wheeler's 18 goals over Ryder's 18 just because he has more potential. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    I think everyone had high hopes for Wheeler (and I dont just mean everyone here, I mean everyone in the hockey world).  I remember how much media coverage he got when the Coyotes picked him up, how he was going to possibly be this "force" because of his size and skill, etc.  I think Wheeler will always be what he is:  A Phil Kessel of sorts who has a ton of talent (PLUS size) but lacks the intestinal fortitude to elevate his game and the players around him. I cant figure out if its conditioning, the fact that he is still a kid who hasnt adjusted from the college game or what, but I think at this point right now youre seeing the REAL Blake Wheeler.  He is a ghost in general, who at times can looking AMAZING, but only scores 15-20 goals. IF, and its a big if, its the adjustmen period and he DOES come around, he could be an Iginla type player.  Im 60/40 with him being what he is.  If arbitration awards him anything over 2 mil, Im not sure the Bruins should hold onto him.  I think they could trade him easily, but his 20 goals will be missed (although Horton and Seguin should pick up the slack).  I think arbitration is a joke.  I was looking at some arbiration awards the other day, and there were guys getting like 3 mil I had never heard of who had AHL type stats.  I think the league is going overboard with arbitrators and Im not sure how they figure it out, but Ive got a bad feeling Wheeler is going to be awarded like 3+ mil.
    Posted by bigvig


    It's not conditioning. the guy's in good shape. It's not intestinal fortitude either. I've seen him go into the corners, in front of the net, and throw himself in front of shots on the PK plenty of times. That takes guts.

    As Bogie6 pointed out, it's often a more difficult transition from college hockey to the NHL than from Juniors to the NHL because of the style of play. One thing I think a lot of people tend to forget is that Wheeler spent zero time in the AHL, which helps guys adapt to the pros.

    I recall a video this past season - either on the Bruins site or NESN's - in which Mark Recchi talked about working with Blake and teaching him how to position himself for rebounds and tip-ins (and if you think it's easy or instinctive, it's not).  Consequently, watching Wheeler on the ice, I could see him trying to follow Recchi's instructions, but the problem was - it wasn't yet instinctive. He had to think about it. And when you start thinking too much out there, suddenly you're a beat behind everyone else. And that makes you look hesitant and tentative.

    It takes time, and unfortunately, a lot of fans have no patience at all. They expect every kid who comes into the league to make an instant impact. I mentioned this on the Bobby Ryan thread - there were plenty of fans and media who labeled the kid a "bust" because he was drafted right behind Sidney Crosby and wasn't an instant superstar. And by time, I don't mean a month or a year. Sometimes it's going to take a couple of years, especially for a big kid like Wheeler. The same thing will probably happen to Joe Colborne, and we'll be hearing what a "bust" he is as well if he's not lighting it up by the time he's 22 years old.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : If his award is around the 3 million mark the the choice comes down to Wheeler or Ryder.  Personally, I'll take Wheeler's 18 goals over Ryder's 18 just because he has more potential. Posted by Raskman


    If JJ will agree to it OK...but that would mean Hunwick goes Caron plays now just please, please not Whitfield good grief.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : If JJ will agree to it OK...but that would mean Hunwick goes Caron plays now just please, please not Whitfield good grief.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Why would Hunwick go?  Ryder's salary would cover Wheeler and Seguin (base salary) so Sturm LTIR would be used for the two remaining spots.  Hopefully Sturm stays out long enough so that only one of the entry level deals would have to be demoted to fit in the rest of his salary. 

    I'm also thinking that Ryder could be traded for future considerations if JJ doesn't want to pay his salary in the minors.  I think there would be takers if he was free.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from McKodiak5. Show McKodiak5's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    I concur, Ryder should go. Give him to the Islanders for a 4th round pick.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : Why would Hunwick go?  Ryder's salary would cover Wheeler and Seguin (base salary) so Sturm LTIR would be used for the two remaining spots.  Hopefully Sturm stays out long enough so that only one of the entry level deals would have to be demoted to fit in the rest of his salary.  I'm also thinking that Ryder could be traded for future considerations if JJ doesn't want to pay his salary in the minors.  I think there would be takers if he was free.
    Posted by Raskman


    As I said before if JJ says OK and Ryder makes it back through re-entry waivers. Ryder would have been traded by now if for future considerations Chiarelli has been trying to dump Ryder since last February why would that change now ? It will take a high pick to get Michael gone to this date PC won't do it.

    I've only said Hunwick or Ference might get traded as a cap casualty not because I dislike there game(s). Matt would fetch more than Ryder at this time IMO.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : As I said before if JJ says OK and Ryder makes it back through re-entry waivers. Ryder would have been traded by now if for future considerations Chiarelli has been trying to dump Ryder since last February why would that change now ? It will take a high pick to get Michael gone to this date PC won't do it. I've only said Hunwick or Ference might get traded as a cap casualty not because I dislike there game(s). Matt would fetch more than Ryder at this time IMO.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    It wouldn't make sense to trade Hunwick or Ference for cap considerations, because you'd need a defenseman in return (nobody on the farm is ready to step in), and I doubt you'll find anyone better who's much cheaper. Not cheap enough to make any sort of significant cap difference, anyway.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : As I said before if JJ says OK and Ryder makes it back through re-entry waivers. Ryder would have been traded by now if for future considerations Chiarelli has been trying to dump Ryder since last February why would that change now ? It will take a high pick to get Michael gone to this date PC won't do it. I've only said Hunwick or Ference might get traded as a cap casualty not because I dislike there game(s). Matt would fetch more than Ryder at this time IMO.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Sorry, but I'm not understanding what you're saying.  Why would Ryder have to go through re-entry waivers?  My thought is he is traded/given away or he goes to the minors for the season.  Re-entry waivers is out of the question because we can't afford to pay 2 million in cap space for nothing.  He would be put on waivers to be able to assign him and if someone claims him, so be it.  If he isn't claimed he's in Providence for the remainder of his contract.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : It wouldn't make sense to trade Hunwick or Ference for cap considerations, because you'd need a defenseman in return (nobody on the farm is ready to step in), and I doubt you'll find anyone better who's much cheaper. Not cheap enough to make any sort of significant cap difference, anyway.
    Posted by duinne


    Only as a possibility but I fear because of the fact Ryder isn't gone yet makes me believe he might have to dump someone with value hope not but that is my fear. Someone has to go even with Sturm's LTIR. Players who can score goals must stay even if it's a few goals from Wheeler so I don't believe it will be a forward that goes unless they walk away from Blake's ruling.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Wheeler and arbitration

    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler and arbitration : Only as a possibility but I fear because of the fact Ryder isn't gone yet makes me believe he might have to dump someone with value hope not but that is my fear. Someone has to go even with Sturm's LTIR. Players who can score goals must stay even if it's a few goals from Wheeler so I don't believe it will be a forward that goes unless they walk away from Blake's ruling.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Unless they think Adam McQuaid is ready for full-time top six duty, or somewhere out there lurks an extremely underpaid NHL defenseman just waiting to be traded, there is no way the Bruins are going to be dealing off one of their top six defenseman. It makes no sense from a cap perspective, and no sense from a team perspective.
     
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