Your Top Defenseman??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from screw-cindy-and-ovie. Show screw-cindy-and-ovie's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Green's defensive struggles have cost him 2 norris trophies and and olympic gold medal

    As for the top defensemen, I go

    1. Duncan Keith, Chicago Blackhawks

    2. Chris Pronger, Philadelphia Flyers

    3. Drew Doughty, Los Angeles Kings

    4. Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Red Wings

    5. Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins

    6. Shea Weber, Nashville Predators

    7. Dan Boyle, San Jose Sharks

    8. Brent Seabrook, Chicago Blackhawks

    9. Jay Bouwmeester, Calgary Flames

    10. Mike Green, Washington Capitals

    And for fun, here are some of my underrated defensemen in the NHL, in no particular order

    Zbynek Michalek, Stephane Robidas, Alexander Edler, Keith Yandle, Brent Burns, Tobias Enstrom, Douglas Murray, Marc-Edouard Vlasic
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jas86. Show Jas86's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    The fact that Green is better offensively than he is defensively, and thus its wise to play him based more on his offensive possibilities, says absolutely nothing in and of itself about his defense.

    If Green were God himself at defense, but still significantly better offensively, he'd still be put on the ice on the PP instead of the PK. You have limited minutes per game to play him. We all agree those minutes are more valuable when used having him try to score.

    That, in and of itself, only says his defense isn't as good as his offense. Since he's arguably the best in the NHL at offense from his position, it pretty much says squat.

    Green isn't used like other great defenseman. I get it.
    He's a different player. Absolutely.

    But he does draw the other team's top players, just not as consistently since he has offense to worry about as well.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    The fact that Green is better offensively than he is defensively, and thus its wise to play him based more on his offensive possibilities, says absolutely nothing in and of itself about his defense. If Green were God himself at defense, but still significantly better offensively, he'd still be put on the ice on the PP instead of the PK. You have limited minutes per game to play him. We all agree those minutes are more valuable when used having him try to score. That, in and of itself, only says his defense isn't as good as his offense. Since he's arguably the best in the NHL at offense from his position, it pretty much says squat. Green isn't used like other great defenseman. I get it. He's a different player. Absolutely. But he does draw the other team's top players, just not as consistently since he has offense to worry about as well.
    Posted by Jas86


    Okay, leave all of the above stats out of the equation.  I've watched him play a lot of games.

    He's a crappy defenseman.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    If I'm Bruce Boudreau and down a goal at the end of a game I certainly put Green out. If I'm up a goal with a minute to go and Green is on the bench I tell him to get comfortable.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jas86. Show Jas86's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman?? : Okay, leave all of the above stats out of the equation.  I've watched him play a lot of games. He's a crappy defenseman.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Leave out all the above stats??

    You mean if you take away Green's incredible skating, passing, stick handling, vision and shot?

    You do realize that if you took those things away from any great defensemen it would put them at the bottom of the league. The same tools that make Green amazing offensively also make him the most reliable Caps defensemen at clearing the zone. Those same tools were/are about 80 or more percent of the reason Lidstrom was/is so effective. Lidstrom has an extra couple of tools on top of Green's.

    If you meant leave Green's abilities as they are but somehow he's putting up average offensive numbers, he'd still be of much better than average value in this league.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman?? : Leave out all the above stats?? You mean if you take away Green's incredible skating, passing, stick handling, vision and shot? You do realize that if you took those things away from any great defensemen it would put them at the bottom of the league. The same tools that make Green amazing offensively also make him the most reliable Caps defensemen at clearing the zone. Those same tools were/are about 80 or more percent of the reason Lidstrom was/is so effective. Lidstrom has an extra couple of tools on top of Green's. If you meant leave Green's abilities as they are but somehow he's putting up average offensive numbers, he'd still be of much better than average value in this league.
    Posted by Jas86


    Lidstrom is a complete defenseman from one end of the ice to the other.

    If you think Lidstrom will go down as one of the best defensemen to ever play becuase of skills like skating and stickhandling, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

    I've actually decided not to respond to this any further.  Anyone who knows anything about hockey knows that Mike Green is a joke as a defenseman. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Watching Green in the playoffs this year actually made me cringe. Alex Ovechkin plays better defense.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlazeTrailer. Show BlazeTrailer's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    Watching Green in the playoffs this year actually made me cringe. Alex Ovechkin plays better defense.
    Posted by duinne


    I would trust myself on D before Green. And please don't think I am hyping myself, I would get turned over more often than a perfect 10 h00ker, but Green would come into any Bruins team in the last 10 years and be the worst D-man in his own zone on that team. Of course, I don't buy into the trend of wanting every D-man to be a center that can skate backwards. I want them to be able to shut down the other team's forwards, so maybe I'm not the best judge.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lordy4. Show lordy4's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    I agree that Green isn't the best D-man in the league, but I would take him on the Bruins. Put him on the point on the power play and pair him with a stay-at-home defensemen and he'd be an asset. When you play him 25-30 minutes a game, he tends to struggle in his own zone. He can play defense some if you put him the right situations.

    Top Defensemen in the NHL:
    1. Duncan Keith, Chicago 
    2. Zdeno Chara, Boston
    3. Chris Pronger, Philadelphia
    4. Drew Doughty, Los Angeles (he will be atop this list in a year or so)
    5. Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit
    6. Shea Weber, Nashville
    7. Ryan Suter, Nashville
    8. Dan Boyle, San Jose
    9. Brent Seabrook, Chicago
    10. Mike Green, Washington
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman?? : With a top defenseman like Mike Green, it's no wonder that the Caps have done so well in the playoffs. No, I would not want this guy as the Bruins #1 defenseman.  Would you? Posted by Not-A-Shot


    To blame Green for the the Caps playoff dibacles is more good stuff because what your saying is it is not a team game. Answer to your question Yes I would love to have Green on this team with Krejci, Seguin, Bergy, Wheeler and Savard as there offensive stats would go up because of Mike. Just like a young Brian Leetch would have done anywhere.

    There are many, many things I don't like about Julien but one thing i'm sure of is Green would do much better under CJs tutelage  than he does under Boudreau's. If CJ can teach a supposed selfish Savard defensive responsibility then he could do it for Mike.

    Speaking of Boudreau I put way more blame on Washington' horrific playoffs the last 2 years on Bruce than I would Green and Ovie.

    Pretty damn good spin but you can't teach Greens wizard like offensive skills as you most certainly can teach defensive responsibility to make any great offensive player better in his own zone.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichmondHillOntario. Show RichmondHillOntario's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    This guy's stock has fallen in recent times but somehow I see him returning to the form that had him listed among the best defensemen in the league, especially after being named captain of the Leafs: Dion Phaneuf. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Will you marry me?

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    Watching Green in the playoffs this year actually made me cringe. Alex Ovechkin plays better defense.
    Posted by duinne

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    Listing Mike Green as the top defenseman in the NHL has completely removed any credibility you might have wanted. The guy is awful as a defenseman. D-men's #1 job is to keep the puck out of the net. Green's points don't keep pucks out of his own net. Super-incredible-fabulous-magnificent fail.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    Totally agree, the bloke must be from Washington!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Green is great offensively, brutal defensively, NAS and others are right on with their analysis.
     
    It is almost like Ray VS Coffey all over again.  I will take Chara over Green all day long. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    PB, Can you teach a stay at home shutdown Dman to be better at offense
    or Mike Green like offensive defenseman ?
        
    Can you teach an offensively talented  player to be defensivly responsible ?

    Can Coach Claude Julien teach an offensive minded player to be more
    responsible in his own end or Bruce Boudreau ?

    Points above being in answering NASs question would I want Green on the Bruins ? In a heartbeat!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Green's been in the NHL for four years, and he still doesn't know how to play his position? 

    He was in a constant panic vs. the Canadiens. It was almost embarrassing. Yeah, the guy scores a lot of points. His job is to prevent scoring. He doesn't do it very well. He suits the Caps' hell-for-leather, run-and-gun system, which provides them with a ton of wins (until it comes to the playoffs). He'd be the squarest of pegs in the roundest of holes in Boston.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lordy4. Show lordy4's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Green can play defense. I saw him do it in the minors. He isn't a Pronger or Chara, but he is servicable. The problem is that in Washington, he has been allowed to do as he pleases offensively at the expense of his defense. You don't want him on the ice at the end of the game if you're ahead. The Caps have 2 young defensemen who will handle that in the near future in John Carlson & Karl Alzner. I've met Bruce Boudreau twice & like hime (he led my minor league team to a Calder Cup), but he is an offensive-minded coach, sometimes to a fault. If Green had a coach that forced him to be a little more responsible in his own zone, he would adapt and be decent defensively. He'll never be a shut down d-man, but he can be less of a liability.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JonnyRippit. Show JonnyRippit's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    Listing Mike Green as the top defenseman in the NHL has completely removed any credibility you might have wanted. The guy is awful as a defenseman. D-men's #1 job is to keep the puck out of the net. Green's points don't keep pucks out of his own net. Super-incredible-fabulous-magnificent fail.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot



    Notice the title of the thread is YOUR TOP DEFENSEMAN?  Yet again NAS trashes a poster/idea but still even afer what 8 posts hasn't mentioned his top dman...That in itself is a  Super-incredible-fabulous-magnificent fail. 

    For the record mine is Chara when he is playing with snarl...which I will admit was extremly rare this pat season.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    He'd be the squarest of pegs in the roundest of holes in Boston.Posted by duinne


    This is where I like Julien's coaching style as he would turn Green around.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    I'm usually with you on players, but I would take Wideman back before taking Green. Not because either one is even decent but because it would leave a lot more cap space for having useful players on the roster.

    As for the Caps struggles, look no further than the GM. He has seen two seasons in a row what a good shut down defensive pair can do. The Pens won two years ago on the strength of Gill & Scuderi, this year Gill, Georges, & Subban almost single handedly put the Habs past both the Pens & Caps and very nearly into the Conference finals.

    Did he look at this and say: Hmm, there might be something to this whole "defense" thing. No, he did nothing. Volchenkov and or Hamuis or Sutton added to the roster turn the Caps from pretender to contender.

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman?? : To blame Green for the the Caps playoff dibacles is more good stuff because what your saying is it is not a team game. Answer to your question Yes I would love to have Green on this team with Krejci, Seguin, Bergy, Wheeler and Savard as there offensive stats would go up because of Mike. Just like a young Brian Leetch would have done anywhere. There are many, many things I don't like about Julien but one thing i'm sure of is Green would do much better under CJs tutelage  than he does under Boudreau's. If CJ can teach a supposed selfish Savard defensive responsibility then he could do it for Mike. Speaking of Boudreau I put way more blame on Washington' horrific playoffs the last 2 years on Bruce than I would Green and Ovie. Pretty damn good spin but you can't teach Greens wizard like offensive skills as you most certainly can teach defensive responsibility to make any great offensive player better in his own zone.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    Best Two Way

    1. Duncan Keith - Best two way D right now

    2. Dan Boyle

    3. Shea Webber

    4. Chris Pronger

    5. Nick Lidstrom

    6. Brent Seabrook

    7. Zdeno Chara

    8. Drew Doughty

    9. Mike Green

    10.  Keith Yandle/Christian Ehrhoff/Dennis Seidenberg


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

     "mike green was called out by his coach for his defense....didn't improve"

    Now that's what I call great coaching. Boudreau will be out of Washington before Mike Green will be. Yzerman had plenty of talent to pick from he didn't have a real hard time with that pool.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    mike green was called out by his coach for his defense....didn't improve. I'm sure he was told by Yzerman that if he didn't play better defense, he wasn't in the picture for team canada....didn't improve. The guy is worthless
    Posted by pbergeron37



    He's certainly not worthless.  He'd be great as a #2 guy on the blueline with the world's most responsible #1 d-man as his partner.  He can skate and shoot very, very well.  He's poor at playing defense.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    I don't even think of Green as a defenseman.  He's more of a "rover".
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Your Top Defenseman??

    In Response to Re: Your Top Defenseman??:
    I don't even think of Green as a defenseman.  He's more of a "rover".
    Posted by jalvis


    Maybe he got lost in a time warp. He does have a sort of 19th-century look about him.
     
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