+/-

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    +/-

    Off Kaberle, crazy bounce, goal.

    Kessel:  +1.

    What a stupid stat.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    Chara +31, 2nd in the league.  What a joke, he's terrible.

    Kessel is -22 for the year btw.  Not a fair stat at all.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: +/-

    McQuad + 28???

    I gotta agree the stat is flawed.  But so are most stats for that matter. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from thedauber1. Show thedauber1's posts

    Re: +/-

    this stat is like poker. if you sit down and play for an hour, its probably 90% luck, if you play frequently over the course of a year, its probably 90% skill. same can be said of the plus minus stat
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: +/-

    In fact, some nerd will make a stat about flawed stats.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]this stat is like poker. if you sit down and play for an hour, its probably 90% luck, if you play frequently over the course of a year, its probably 90% skill. same can be said of the plus minus stat
    Posted by thedauber1[/QUOTE]

    Great example.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    Agree that the +/- stat is not perfect, but seems at least directionally accurate. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]Chara +31, 2nd in the league.  What a joke, he's terrible. Kessel is -22 for the year btw.  Not a fair stat at all.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    It's really easy to bend the stat in any direction you would like, Crowls.

    Can you guess my prime example?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : It's really easy to bend the stat in any direction you would like, Crowls. Can you guess my prime example?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I agree with your sentiment but am unable to guess your example. Please tell me.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    '08-09 Phil Kessel +23

    Current examples:  Henrik Zetterberg -4, Eric Staal -10
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TTisOverrated. Show TTisOverrated's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]Agree that the +/- stat is not perfect, but seems at least directionally accurate. 
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]
    At the start of the night, Carl Gunnarsson was a -2. Lidstrom is a -3. Are you saing that Carl Gunnnarsson is better than Nick Lidstrom?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : At the start of the night, Carl Gunnarsson was a -2. Lidstrom is a -3. Are you saing that Carl Gunnnarsson is better than Nick Lidstrom?
    Posted by TTisOverrated[/QUOTE]

    Is your screen-name really TTisOverrated?  You figure it out genius.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]'08-09 Phil Kessel +23 Current examples:  Henrik Zetterberg -4, Eric Staal -10
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    My counter is that PK is finishing up his 5th NHL season, right.  He has been a minus player for 4 out of those 5 seasons, and is a career -25.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : My counter is that PK is finishing up his 5th NHL season, right.  He has been a minus player for 4 out of those 5 seasons, and is a career -25.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    Zetterberg, btw is finishing up his 8th NHL season.  He has been a plus player in 7 out of 8 years, and is a +127 for his career.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : My counter is that PK is finishing up his 5th NHL season, right.  He has been a minus player for 4 out of those 5 seasons, and is a career -25.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    So much goes into that.  Who are the linemates?  Who are the teammates?  Who  is in goal?

    Chara was -27 for two years on The Island.  Years later, he was -21 on Boston.

    It's a terrible stat.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : So much goes into that.  Who are the linemates?  Who are the teammates?  Who  is in goal? Chara was -27 for two years on The Island.  Years later, he was -21 on Boston. It's a terrible stat.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Will have to agree to disagree on this one.  +/- helps to tell a part of the story, not the entire evaluation.  Otherwise, folks would be out here starting Toni Lydman for MVP threads.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : Will have to agree to disagree on this one.  +/- helps to tell a part of the story, not the entire evaluation.  Otherwise, folks would be out here starting Toni Lydman for MVP threads.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    Those would be the same people that trumpet McQuaid's stats.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : Those would be the same people that trumpet McQuaid's stats.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Missed the McQuaid for MVP threads.  Link?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : Missed the McQuaid for MVP threads.  Link?
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    I missed where I said they exist.  Link?


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: +/-

    up two...

    Lydman for MVP threads = same people that trumpet McQuaid's stats = McQuaid for MVP?

    Not a stretch to make that connection. 

    So if I see value in +/- as an input in a player's evaluation, like McQuaid, I think Lydman should be MVP?  Is that what you are saying?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: +/-

    I agree 100%

    Most over-rated, over-used stat in the game.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: +/-

    As with any stat it is a correlative device, not a causal one, used to make inferrences. It has its uses but also has some contradictions such as the ones point out by NAS....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]up two... Lydman for MVP threads = same people that trumpet McQuaid's stats = McQuaid for MVP? Not a stretch to make that connection.  So if I see value in +/- as an input in a player's evaluation, like McQuaid, I think Lydman should be MVP?  Is that what you are saying?
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    That's pathetic.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TTisOverrated. Show TTisOverrated's posts

    Re: +/-

    In Response to Re: +/-:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: +/- : Is your screen-name really TTisOverrated?  You figure it out genius.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]
    Cmon Crowls stick to the topic.

    Since you think plus minus is such a telling statistic, wouldnt that mean you think Gunnarson is a better Dman than Lidstrom, because gunnarsons PM is higher?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: +/-

    The way I see it, +/- helps identify trouble spots or surprises within a lineup. For example, it might be noteworthy if a player is a minus on a team full of plusses (Ryder, -5) and vice versa.
     

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