Re: 1000 for Bergeron?
posted at 7/31/2013 10:15 AM EDT
Bergeron vs. Gainey
9.5 years vs. 16
Good and bad B's teams vs. Habs Cups everywhere
Let's compare the two when Bergeron hangs them up.
As for the rest of it, I disagree. Trophies are nice. They don't tell the whole story. Doug Gilmour won a Cup and a Selke. He's in the Hall. Ron Francis won the Cups, Selke, the Plus/Minus Award (now, that's a weak one), Lady Byng and King Clancy. Dare I say that his individual awards aren't that much more impressive than Bergeron at this point?
"Yeah, but NAS, those guys had tons of points also." Yeah, they did. Points don't get people elected. Ask Housley. Overall play gets guys elected. If Bergeron continues to play at this current level until he's 33 or so, I say he gets into the Hall in his second or third year of eligibility.
Jere Lehtinen won the Selke three times. He won't ever get into the HOF.
Absolutely, there'll be more clarity when Bergerons career is finished. I agree with your personal assessment about trophies and awards, but I think you and I are in the minority there. They play a huge factor overall. We see it all the time. I don't have as much confidence in those voters as you do when it comes down to judging "overall play". It seems more often than not, they look for headlines to validate their decision. Same with "points". They seem to be looked at quite favorably when handing out accolades. You bring up Hously, but he's a defensman who over the course of his career was a minus, twice as many years as he was on the plus side. Two words often come up when talking about his defensive game. "Soft" is one, and an "adventure" is another. The fact over his career, he was never once seriously considered for a Norris has come up multiple times in his Hall debate. Still wouldn't be surprised he doesn't get in someday, and if he does...it'll be because of "points".
Players like Carbonneau and Lehtinen are real good examples of how hard it is to get HOF consideration when your forte is "responsible play", much more than the insignificance of trophies or points.
Look at another guy who won the Selke once. Doug Gilmore. Played 20 seasons. 1400+ points. Outstanding defensively, and considered one of the toughest most determined players to ever play the game. Don't think he was even up for consideration in his first year or 2 of eligibility, and when he finally got consideration, he got passed over at least once before getting in. Hard for me to figure Bergeron will get more/quicker consideration than Gilmore, trending along the way he has been.
Finally, hope you're right and he does get in on his second or third year of eligibility. Playing the SCF with broken bones and a punctured lung will become more legendary as time goes on(see Bobby Baun) and could define his legacy. Overall though, I think Patrice is, and will be looked at like O'Reilly. Legendary in Boston, as opposed to hugely respected everywhere else.