2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    Okay, defending Champs come into this year with pretty much the same players. Are they the same team? I think not.

    1. This years team has playoff experience. Is that better than hunger from a team that was cupless for so long. I think so. You can't teach experience, besides I'm guessing players didnt care about the Cup drought.

    2. Recchi vs. Rolston = Recchi was on last years team and I'm guessing his experienced help in the room and on the bench. Rolston has a nice resume, but doesnt need to do as much of that. Love what Rolston brings to this years team, speed, shot, size and PP point man. Recchi was great in front of the net, doing the little things. He'd get the edge but Rolstons versatility draws them even.
    Edge: Push

    3. Ryder vs. Pouliot = Try to write this without thinking of the year Ryder is having now in Dallas. Not relevent here. No arguing with Ryders performance last year, big goals, gets shots on net and creates rebounds. Can Pouliot do tha same? Big body, good at creating turnovers but doesnt seem to get half the oppurtunities a lazy Ryder would get. Sure, but I'd say it's unlikely, for all Ryders faults last year he did get his chances. Last year, I predicted as did some of you ryder would get a big goal in the playoffs..I'm not geeting that feeling from Benoit this time around.
    Edge: Ryder

    4. Horton/Caron = Not really fair to compare the two, after what Horton did last year with his big game 7 goals, this one is easy. Though some rookies have made a name for themselves come playoff time the oppurtunity is certainly there for Caron to do so. Lets hope.
    Edge: Horton

    5. 2011 Timmy vs. 2012 Timmy = Awesome regular season last year, then after a  so-so series versus the Habs it was lights out, on his way to one of the best playoff performances ever. Can he do it again? I think it would be unfair to expect anyone to duplicate that kind of play, I'm real interested to see how he responds to adversity he has brought on himself this year. Until then.
    Edge: 2011.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    I think in terms of players and productiong there isn't much of a difference. Seguin last year was producing like a fourth liner, and this year leads the team in points with 65. I'd say that pretty much covers what was lost in Ryder and then some.

    The one thing that concerns me is that last years Cup final was an example of Skill v. Will, and with a cup all ready under their belt will they still play with the heart and effort we saw last year? Or will a hungry team like the Rangers or Pens get in their way?

    Also, I'm hoping TT has enough gas in the tank for another run. Whether or not Thomas can be superhuman again will probably dictate whether or not they repeat more than anything else.

    In terms of the roster - not much of a difference at all. Still think the Bruins have a good chance.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tremha. Show tremha's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    The team might be more balanced though they do miss Horton.  They also have more depth on D. 

    At the end it will simply come down to which Thomas shows up.

    Last year he was dominant for long stretches and stole games.  If he doesnt do that again they dont move on.  If they do - chance to win it all.  Dont forget last year went to many game 7's that could have gone either way.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    In Response to 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?:
    [QUOTE]Okay, defending Champs come into this year with pretty much the same players. Are they the same team? I think not. 1. This years team has playoff experience. Is that better than hunger from a team that was cupless for so long. I think so. You can't teach experience, besides I'm guessing players didnt care about the Cup drought. 2. Recchi vs. Rolston = Recchi was on last years team and I'm guessing his experienced help in the room and on the bench. Rolston has a nice resume, but doesnt need to do as much of that. Love what Rolston brings to this years team, speed, shot, size and PP point man. Recchi was great in front of the net, doing the little things. He'd get the edge but Rolstons versatility draws them even. Edge: Push 3. Ryder vs. Pouliot = Try to write this without thinking of the year Ryder is having now in Dallas. Not relevent here. No arguing with Ryders performance last year, big goals, gets shots on net and creates rebounds. Can Pouliot do tha same? Big body, good at creating turnovers but doesnt seem to get half the oppurtunities a lazy Ryder would get. Sure, but I'd say it's unlikely, for all Ryders faults last year he did get his chances. Last year, I predicted as did some of you ryder would get a big goal in the playoffs..I'm not geeting that feeling from Benoit this time around. Edge: Ryder 4. Horton/Caron = Not really fair to compare the two, after what Horton did last year with his big game 7 goals, this one is easy. Though some rookies have made a name for themselves come playoff time the oppurtunity is certainly there for Caron to do so. Lets hope. Edge: Horton 5. 2011 Timmy vs. 2012 Timmy = Awesome regular season last year, then after a  so-so series versus the Habs it was lights out, on his way to one of the best playoff performances ever. Can he do it again? I think it would be unfair to expect anyone to duplicate that kind of play, I'm real interested to see how he responds to adversity he has brought on himself this year. Until then. Edge: 2011.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]


    I agree with most of your observations.  I dont see how anyone could expect a repeat of 2011 Timmy, and simply eliminating what Horton did is breathtaking.  Plus, Ryder was an absolute beast at playoff time.  Finally, 2011 Krecji is tough to match right now.

    Probably shouldnt forget that the 2011 team could have been eliminated by a bounce here or there in the first round.

    The only plusses I see for 2012 is that last year the team "learned how to win," a talent teams like Detroit show is important at playoff time.  Also you have to look at the obvious improvement in Seguin, although it remains to be seen how he does in the more physical playoffs.

    I like the 2012 guys, but I have to give the 2011 team the clear edge.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    In Response to 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?:
    [QUOTE]Okay, defending Champs come into this year with pretty much the same players. Are they the same team? I think not. 1. This years team has playoff experience. Is that better than hunger from a team that was cupless for so long. I think so. You can't teach experience, besides I'm guessing players didnt care about the Cup drought. 2. Recchi vs. Rolston = Recchi was on last years team and I'm guessing his experienced help in the room and on the bench. Rolston has a nice resume, but doesnt need to do as much of that. Love what Rolston brings to this years team, speed, shot, size and PP point man. Recchi was great in front of the net, doing the little things. He'd get the edge but Rolstons versatility draws them even. Edge: Push 3. Ryder vs. Pouliot = Try to write this without thinking of the year Ryder is having now in Dallas. Not relevent here. No arguing with Ryders performance last year, big goals, gets shots on net and creates rebounds. Can Pouliot do tha same? Big body, good at creating turnovers but doesnt seem to get half the oppurtunities a lazy Ryder would get. Sure, but I'd say it's unlikely, for all Ryders faults last year he did get his chances. Last year, I predicted as did some of you ryder would get a big goal in the playoffs..I'm not geeting that feeling from Benoit this time around. Edge: Ryder 4. Horton/Caron = Not really fair to compare the two, after what Horton did last year with his big game 7 goals, this one is easy. Though some rookies have made a name for themselves come playoff time the oppurtunity is certainly there for Caron to do so. Lets hope. Edge: Horton 5. 2011 Timmy vs. 2012 Timmy = Awesome regular season last year, then after a  so-so series versus the Habs it was lights out, on his way to one of the best playoff performances ever. Can he do it again? I think it would be unfair to expect anyone to duplicate that kind of play, I'm real interested to see how he responds to adversity he has brought on himself this year. Until then. Edge: 2011.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Pretty good post with some nice insights. Let me offer some of my own based on what you have offered.

    I think your first and second points can be melded together. Recchi offered that much needed playoff vet experience and I doubt Rolston can match that. But, as you suggest out in your first point, the great playoff experience intangible has been gained by the whole team. Thus, I am not so sure there is as much reliance on a Recchi-type this time around

    The third point (Ryder v Pouliot) is not as much as a factor as you suggest. It was really Seguin that obtained much of Ryder's former icetime and he has shown to be vastly superior to Ryder in almost all aspects of his game. Add Pouliot's production (ironically close to what Ryder produced for the B's last year) and the situation seems much more favourable this time around.

    The Horton/Caron situation is where I agree with you the most. Tough to replace Nathan's size and skill package. This may be problematic though they did win the SCF without him so there is hope there. Peverly is really going to have to step up imho.

    And TT, it would be difficult for any goalie to top what he did last year. Yet, with a stronger D corp this time around he may not have to.

    Something you neglected to mention is that this 2012 is a much faster, more uptempo one; courtesy of Seguin and Caron getting more meaningful minutes and Rolston helps here too. Plus, if Rolston is used more on the PP it may be more productive than in 2011.

    I think, if they had tried to duplicate last year's team they may have fallen flat but using the kids more adds a much different dynamic this time around. Time will tell I guess.

    Cheers
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    In Response to Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?:
    [QUOTE](Ryder v Pouliot) is not as much as a factor as you suggest. It was really Seguin that obtained much of Ryder's former icetime and he has shown to be vastly superior to Ryder in almost all aspects of his game. 
    Posted by jaywall[/QUOTE]

    Exactly! There is one advantage Ryder had over Seguin though. He's got pretty sick goalie skills.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    I think the 2012 B's have more total firepower than the 2011 B's had coming into the tournament, less baggage being champs than they did in 2011 coming off of the epic collapse to Philly but Thomas is at the moment nowhere as sharp as he was in last three rounds of the 2011 Stanleys and he hasn't had a Vezena regular season either.

    If Thomas gets locked in for 4 rounds this team certain provides more problems for defenders, even without Horton.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    In Response to Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better? : Exactly! There is one advantage Ryder had over Seguin though. He's got pretty sick goalie skills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqSk6sB-3bM
    Posted by Bisson1[/QUOTE]

    Heh....looks like he can do it all. The one that got away I guess....that is his gift to the Boston faithful for three years of futility.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    I realize the Seguin factor, also, I'd say Marchand is better as well. i was comparing players from last year to this year. additions versus subtractions.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    The Bruins this year are significantly better than last year. They score a lot more goals and allow significantly fewer. That's really all that matters. If you want to break it down by roster spots, well:

    Seguin is much better than Recchi.
    Zanon is better defensively than Kaberle, but worse offensively. I would give that edge to Kaberle, but it's close.
    The mix of Rolston, Pouliot and Caron vs Horton, Ryder and last year's Seguin. The edge here has to go last year, but the way the 2012's have been playing lately may make it closer.
    Corvo is much better than Hnidy. Way better sub in if Chara gets the flu. You can play him more than 3 minutes.

    Much has been made of Thomas not repeating last year, but I think he is just as good. He had a bad stretch but I don't take that to serious, and it was more the team than him. Tuukka's stats were awful too while the team was playing poor D.

    In the end I think Tyler Seguin's development has made the Bruins a significantly more skilled and talented team. He's gone from healthy scratch to leading scorer. That's dramatic. Even if Horton doesn't play, Seguin is more dangerous than he ever was. I also think that last year's team was not capable of dominating teams the way the Bruins this year do at their best. Having a line like Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin is a skill dynamic 2011 just didn't have. I also think the winner's experience makes them better, Peverley and Kelly are completely used to the team, and I like Rolston or Peverley on the point more than Kaberle so the pp looks better to me.

    If Horton comes back eventually, the team is clearly better, but even without him they are still better, and that is supported by statistics.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?

    In Response to Re: 2011 B's versus 2012 B's--Who's Better?:
    [QUOTE]The Bruins this year are significantly better than last year. They score a lot more goals and allow significantly fewer. That's really all that matters. If you want to break it down by roster spots, well: Seguin is much better than Recchi. Zanon is better defensively than Kaberle, but worse offensively. I would give that edge to Kaberle, but it's close. The mix of Rolston, Pouliot and Caron vs Horton, Ryder and last year's Seguin. The edge here has to go last year, but the way the 2012's have been playing lately may make it closer. Corvo is much better than Hnidy. Way better sub in if Chara gets the flu. You can play him more than 3 minutes. Much has been made of Thomas not repeating last year, but I think he is just as good. He had a bad stretch but I don't take that to serious, and it was more the team than him. Tuukka's stats were awful too while the team was playing poor D. In the end I think Tyler Seguin's development has made the Bruins a significantly more skilled and talented team. He's gone from healthy scratch to leading scorer. That's dramatic. Even if Horton doesn't play, Seguin is more dangerous than he ever was. I also think that last year's team was not capable of dominating teams the way the Bruins this year do at their best. Having a line like Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin is a skill dynamic 2011 just didn't have. I also think the winner's experience makes them better, Peverley and Kelly are completely used to the team, and I like Rolston or Peverley on the point more than Kaberle so the pp looks better to me. If Horton comes back eventually, the team is clearly better, but even without him they are still better, and that is supported by statistics.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    One objection. I would take Hnidy over Corvo any day. I guess that is why I am not a gm, however.
     

Share