A Different Look At Finances

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    A Different Look At Finances

    Who would you rather have for the next four years:


     


    Chara/Rask or Subban/Price


     


    The #1 defenseman and the #1 goalie.  


     


    Take into account age, potential (or as the cool kids call it, "upside") and durability.


     


    I think as time marches on, the Subban and Price duo will have a more positive effect on games than Chara and Rask.


     


    What's the difference in money?  $1.5M more for Subban and Price.  $15.5M vs. $14M.


     


    For the cost of Caron, Miller and a DB7 (per year), you can have Subban and Price for the next four years.


     


    I think that's a pretty good deal.


     


    (Math edited due to wicked bad math!) 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    As much as i hate the Scabs,i can't argue with you much there NAS, unless its just for the sake of arguing. ;)


     


     


     


     


     


    You will never find a more wretched hive of SCUM and VILLAINY.


    -Obi-Wan Kenobi

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Chara anchored a Cup winning team... until Subban does this, he's not worth the money.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    I'll take Subban/Price simply because Chara is up there in age...Rask/Price is pretty much a wash.




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Four years is the determining factor.  Unless you're rock solid that Chara is going to be just as good at 40 and 41, it's hard to say you'd rather have Chara than Subban, and I don't know that most people would be able to tell you why they think Rask is better than Price or vice versa.

    I would take Chara over Subban right now, though.  Subban's flashier, but there's no substitute for Chara.  Let me choose every August, and I might go Bs Bs Bs, Cs.

    I think we have a very skewed vision of Subban, frankly.  He was awesome against the Bs.  Against the Rangers?  He was a non-factor.  -4 over the first 4 games, totalled 1-1-2, with all of his offense coming on the PP.  Several occasions where he did his rag the puck routine trying to create lanes and the Rangers just...sat on him.  I really think there's a chance that we've seen the best of Subban, and I don't think it's 'best in the NHL"

    Curiously, the Scabs, only have 3 guys signed for 2016-17.  They'll be signing Galchenyuk and Gallagher to make that 5 guys.  They'll also only have half a D and one goalie that year.  All things considered, that's a lot of cap flexibility, but they are still  going to need some good EL players to fill gaps. 

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Bruinfaninnewjersey's comment:

    Chara anchored a Cup winning team... until Subban does this, he's not worth the money.



    Glen Wesley did in 2006.  The past is the past.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    The 4th year of Chara's contract is only a 4 million cap hit, a bargain compared to Subban.

     If Krug or Hamilton were not on the Bruins, then I would want Subban.  Subban is a great power play anchor and much better than Chara when he had that role. That is a crucial spot that can help win games by itself.

     However, Chara is better everywhere else.  He has better range, positioning, defensive instincts, and can shut down larger/prolific forwards.

    Rask vs. Price.  Tuuka is much better.  Price is way overhyped. He faced no quality shots for Team Canada and must have rubbed his lucky balls on the posts during the Bruins series.  He was beaten several times by the Bruins only to have the posts save his overrated a$$z.

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Interesting comparison NAS. Made more interesting that it brings up the possibility that I might have to choose a flippin Canadian duo! YUCK!

    But two points:

    1) in 2017-1018 Chara's cap hit goes down significantly to $4 million. That makes the Bruins duo worth $11 million combined.

    2) the scenario you set up is a hockey drill, not a hockey game. Who else is playing besides these 4?

    In a vacuum, I'd choose... I can't say it.


    Lets GO BRUINS!!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Fellas, the cap hit doesn't change throughout the duration of the contract.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Fellas, the cap hit doesn't change throughout the duration of the contract.

     



    Chara's does.

    -GNB, King Of The Forum

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Fellas, the cap hit doesn't change throughout the duration of the contract.

     



    Chara's does.

    -GNB, King Of The Forum

     



    No, it doesn't you jester!

    It says the same.  He gets paid less real cash, but the cap hit says the same.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Im taking the ever improving and the younger stud on defense plus Price over the aging Chara and Rask.  Goalies are close.  The difference for me is the age of the 2 dmen.  In Charas prime i take Rask Z.  

    Book.  Pks total body of playoff work was pretty dominant.  PS. He hasnt hit his prime yet.  Im sure you were in the group that went against every word i said when i said he would win the norris and be a dominant force.  Well he won that award already and is a dominant force.  Not sure why that stops next year at the ripe age of 25.  How old was Chara when the Bruins signed him and then extended him.  Be prepared to hate this guy dominating the game for the next 10+ yrs.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:


    No, it doesn't you jester!

    It says the same.  He gets paid less real cash, but the cap hit says the same.



    I'll take Capgeek's word over yours.

    -GNB, King Of The Forum

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    He won a Norris for half a season's work.  And he won it, like Karlsson, almost exclusively for his offensive prowess.  You won't get any argument from me that he is a great offensive defenseman - great shot, great accuracy, and good at ragging the puck and looking for the right opening.  But he wasn't even top 10 in voting last year - Markov got almost as many votes.  For this kind of cash, he should be top 5 every year, right?

    Last year almost doubled his total number of playoff games.  It's only the second time in his career that his team has gone to the second round, and the first time they've gone to the third.  Hard to say he's been dominant because he's scored well in playoff losses, especially the loss to Ottawa last year where he was trying to do it all himself and was actually a detriment to their overall results. 

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Nitty pickerer's!!!

    But I'm going with Chara and his $4M.

    cash is cash so Chara's worth goes up.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    To me, Chara's age is the only thing that would sway favor to the Habs here.  I just don't know about Chara at 40, but I think he's a better playoff defender now (I realize Subban looked better in the last series).  In net, I think Rask is better, albeit not by much.  I think he's more consistent.

    I thought Subban, as great as he was against the B's, was perhaps the greatest benefactor of their failure to finish.  He took some spectacular gambles and put himself out of position in some key moments that I remember well.  The Bruins failed to finish and failed to make him pay.  Call me a homer, but I am convinced that if they play that series over and over, things only get better for the B's.  They stop hitting posts, they regain their touch, and they play better offensively.

    The part of Subban's game that is definitely not a fluke, is his offense.  I think he brings that every night and doubles down for every meeting against the B's.  Uncanny how he puts that laser into the top off the net so much against them.

    I'd take the B's now and probably for 3 of those 4 years.  We need to flag and revisit this one...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    The cap hit for Chara is listed as only $4m in his last year but I'm not sure how that can be. I thought regardless of actual salary, the cap hit is always the AAV. Hmmm....Homework time.

    Regarding the original post...I go with Chara/Rask for another couple of years then I would jump ship as Chara inevitably starts to regress.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    I'll take Capgeek's word over yours.

    -GNB, King Of The Forum



    Whoops.  I'm the jester.  You're still the King, GNB.

    "For years of the contract up to and including the age of 40, the cap hit is calculated by dividing the total salary for those years by the number of years up to and including the 40-year-old season. For years of the contract ages 41 and beyond, the cap hit in each year is equal to the actual salary paid for that season.
    Example: Zdeno Chara signed a seven-year, $45.5-million deal starting in 2011 (age 34) and running through 2018 (age 41). Because he earns a $4 million salary at age 41, his 2017-18 cap hit is $4 million. For all other seasons, his cap hit is $6,916,667, with his $41.5 million in remaining salary divided over six years."

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    I'll take Capgeek's word over yours.

    -GNB, King Of The Forum



    Whoops.  I'm the jester.  You're still the King, GNB.

    "For years of the contract up to and including the age of 40, the cap hit is calculated by dividing the total salary for those years by the number of years up to and including the 40-year-old season. For years of the contract ages 41 and beyond, the cap hit in each year is equal to the actual salary paid for that season.
    Example: Zdeno Chara signed a seven-year, $45.5-million deal starting in 2011 (age 34) and running through 2018 (age 41). Because he earns a $4 million salary at age 41, his 2017-18 cap hit is $4 million. For all other seasons, his cap hit is $6,916,667, with his $41.5 million in remaining salary divided over six years."

     


    Ah, there it is....I'm no longer confused. Not about this, anyway. :P

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances


    I think chara is on the downslide of his career, but i still wouldnt take subban over him, actually id refuse both if i had a chance at a doughty or girardi or for that matter even mcdonough,. Subban won the norris in a short season, anyone could have won  that and his production didnt increase over an 82 game season. Yes hes got a shot from the point thats scary but so does chara and boychuk, Use boychuk on the pp more would be nice. As far as rask/price to me there both equal, especially if price could play anywhere but MTL.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    All hail the King!!!

    But seriously, I still take Chara-Rask over Subban-Price in 4 years. Just personal preference but Chara-Rask are just more accomplished players and 4 years from now that is not likely to degrade significantly. Rask is in his prime and Chara is just a freak of nature. Subban and Price on the other hand are younger yes but really what have they done? Norris in a lockout season? check. Beat the B's in a playoff round (their Stanley cup) Check......and that's about it. You could argue that the B's have more depth on their team that helps them be more successful but does anyone remember the 2013 team that went to the 6th game of the finals? Two real lines of forwards and a  pack of non-descript D men lead by Chara and backstopped by Rask. That is worth every penny. Good luck Subban and Price!

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Speaking of contracts only...

     The only thing I would argue is that Chara's contract has been much more a value to his team up to this point. He has been the defensive stalwart in the first 4 years of his contract and has captained a winner. Going forward...who the heck knows? But as of now, Subban makes more than 2 million more a year than Chara. Do I expect Subban to be 25% better than Chara over the next few years? a resounding, no.


    Price's contract is better than Rask's

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    All hail the King!!!

    But seriously, I still take Chara-Rask over Subban-Price in 4 years. Just personal preference but Chara-Rask are just more accomplished players and 4 years from now that is not likely to degrade significantly. Rask is in his prime and Chara is just a freak of nature. Subban and Price on the other hand are younger yes but really what have they done? Norris in a lockout season? check. Beat the B's in a playoff round (their Stanley cup) Check......and that's about it. You could argue that the B's have more depth on their team that helps them be more successful but does anyone remember the 2013 team that went to the 6th game of the finals? Two real lines of forwards and a  pack of non-descript D men lead by Chara and backstopped by Rask. That is worth every penny. Good luck Subban and Price!

     



    This reads as it was written from someone who has never seen an NHL game.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to wallydouglas' comment:


    I think chara is on the downslide of his career, but i still wouldnt take subban over him, actually id refuse both if i had a chance at a doughty or girardi or for that matter even mcdonough,. Subban won the norris in a short season, anyone could have won  that and his production didnt increase over an 82 game season. Yes hes got a shot from the point thats scary but so does chara and boychuk, Use boychuk on the pp more would be nice. As far as rask/price to me there both equal, especially if price could play anywhere but MTL.



    Oh my word.  

    Boychuk's great shot from the point has produced 19 regular season goals...in his career!

    I'm not sure if you've ever seen Subban play.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     



    This reads as it was written from someone who has never seen an NHL game.




    haha....ok, you got me. Never seen a game in my life lol!

     

     

     
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