A Different Look At Finances

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    I'll take PK/Rask combo for the win please.

     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    haha....ok, you got me. Never seen a game in my life lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course you have, but that's not the impression that is given from that info you posted, JMW.  Some facts and stats that can be pulled of any website.  

    Subban's ability is unquestioned by most.  The guy is amazing with the puck.  He skates quickly and elusively.  His passes out of the zone are high quality.  His shots from the point get through due to his quick lateral movement along the blueline.

    At the age of 25, the guy already has a Norris Trophy.  Those who discount it because of the lockout are f'ed in the head.  Had the B's won the Cup that year, no one would be discounting that victory.

    When Chara was 25, he had a career total of 43 points. Subban just turned 25.  He has 42 goals and 167 points.

    If you want to beat him up for the Habs losing to the Rangers, that's fine, but don't forget to point out Chara's 15 career playoff goals in 141 games and Subban's 10 playoff goals in 43.  

    I'm as big of a Chara fan as can be, and I hate the Habs as much as anyone could, but when we're talking about the abilities of players, save the powerpuff stuff for The Hockey Writers guys.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Your perspective is slanted because of the age of Chara. Obliviously, Subban/Price looks good going forward.

    The rest is up to the supporting cast. I'll take Boston's supporting cast over the Shabs.

    Looking into the medium-range future, I think the Rask/Hamilton combo will outdo Subban/Price.

    And looking into the long-range future, I think Subban/Hamilton will blow Subban/Price to smithereens.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fellas, the cap hit doesn't change throughout the duration of the contract.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm waiting....

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Sportsnutty's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Fellas, the cap hit doesn't change throughout the duration of the contract.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm waiting....

    [/QUOTE]

    One grand "My mistake" from the podium wasn't enough?  I have to walk around the room and address each offended party?  Come on!

    Okay, nutty.  You were right also.  And I was still wrong.

    Anyone else?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Your perspective is slanted because of the age of Chara. Obliviously, Subban/Price looks good going forward.

    The rest is up to the supporting cast. I'll take Boston's supporting cast over the Shabs.

    Looking into the medium-range future, I think the Rask/Hamilton combo will outdo Subban/Price.

    And looking into the long-range future, I think Subban/Hamilton will blow Subban/Price to smithereens.

    [/QUOTE]

    My perspective isn't slanted.  The ages are real.

    You think Hamilton and Rask will outdo Subban and Price.  Your perspective is slanted because you had too many shots of vodka before you posted.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    haha....ok, you got me. Never seen a game in my life lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course you have, but that's not the impression that is given from that info you posted, JMW.  Some facts and stats that can be pulled of any website.  

    Subban's ability is unquestioned by most.  The guy is amazing with the puck.  He skates quickly and elusively.  His passes out of the zone are high quality.  His shots from the point get through due to his quick lateral movement along the blueline.

    At the age of 25, the guy already has a Norris Trophy.  Those who discount it because of the lockout are f'ed in the head.  Had the B's won the Cup that year, no one would be discounting that victory.

    When Chara was 25, he had a career total of 43 points. Subban just turned 25.  He has 42 goals and 167 points.

    If you want to beat him up for the Habs losing to the Rangers, that's fine, but don't forget to point out Chara's 15 career playoff goals in 141 games and Subban's 10 playoff goals in 43.  

    I'm as big of a Chara fan as can be, and I hate the Habs as much as anyone could, but when we're talking about the abilities of players, save the powerpuff stuff for The Hockey Writers guys.  

    [/QUOTE]


     I agree with you and I am not discounting what both Subban and Price have accomplished. But this is kind of apples and oranges with regard to direct individual comparisons. The only real measuring stick in my mind is what they, as the "elite" of their team, have been able to in terms of consistently going to that extra level to lift their team to greater heights. Chara and Rask have proven to do this and consistently. Subban and Price have yet to consistently. A series of incredibility, yes....but that's about it. Can this change over time? Of course but we can't predict the future, only go by what they have done up until now. If I want to win a cup within the 4 year time span you have outlined, I pick Chara and Rask over Subban and Price. That is simply my opinion.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    haha....ok, you got me. Never seen a game in my life lol

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course you have, but that's not the impression that is given from that info you posted, JMW.  Some facts and stats that can be pulled of any website.  

    Subban's ability is unquestioned by most.  The guy is amazing with the puck.  He skates quickly and elusively.  His passes out of the zone are high quality.  His shots from the point get through due to his quick lateral movement along the blueline.

    At the age of 25, the guy already has a Norris Trophy.  Those who discount it because of the lockout are f'ed in the head.  Had the B's won the Cup that year, no one would be discounting that victory.

    When Chara was 25, he had a career total of 43 points. Subban just turned 25.  He has 42 goals and 167 points.

    If you want to beat him up for the Habs losing to the Rangers, that's fine, but don't forget to point out Chara's 15 career playoff goals in 141 games and Subban's 10 playoff goals in 43.  

    I'm as big of a Chara fan as can be, and I hate the Habs as much as anyone could, but when we're talking about the abilities of players, save the powerpuff stuff for The Hockey Writers guys.  

    [/QUOTE]


     I agree with you and I am not discounting what both Subban and Price have accomplished. But this is kind of apples and oranges with regard to direct individual comparisons. The only real measuring stick in my mind is what they, as the "elite" of their team, have been able to in terms of consistently going to that extra level to lift their team to greater heights. Chara and Rask have proven to do this and consistently. Subban and Price have yet to consistently. A series of incredibility, yes....but that's about it. Can this change over time? Of course but we can't predict the future, only go by what they have done up until now. If I want to win a cup within the 4 year time span you have outlined, I pick Chara and Rask over Subban and Price. That is simply my opinion.

    [/QUOTE]


    It's mine as well JM.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    You have chosen wisely my friend! :)

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You have chosen wisely my friend! :)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I was due.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Here's the way I've come to look at Subban's deal...
    Salaries are only going up so:

    Would Chara of 5 years ago get more than $9 million a year in today's market?

    If no, then Subban is overpaid.

    If yes, then he got the right amount of money.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    I would argue as they stand right now, no contracts, don't have to have them for the next four years etc..I would pick Subban right now, and I'm a big fan of Chara. Right now, I think P.K Subban is the better overall player.




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would argue as they stand right now, no contracts, don't have to have them for the next four years etc..I would pick Subban right now, and I'm a big fan of Chara. Right now, I think P.K Subban is the better overall player.

    [/QUOTE]

    I dunno about that...Subban is a superior offensive player, but even at 12 years younger you would be hard pressed to call Subban the better defender. He is getting better at it though.

    This thread reminds me Zoolander, with Zdeno as Derek and PK as Hansel:

    Why you been acting so messed up towards me?

    Why you been acting so messed up towards me?

    Well, you go first.

    I don't know maybe I felt a little threatened or something because your career is just kind of blossoming and mine is kind of winding down or whatever.

    And I felt like this guy is really hurting me. And it hurt.

    And I felt like when you told me to, 'Dere-lick my balls,' that really hurt.

    Maybe I was scared man. You're Derek Zoolander. Yeah, you're Derek Zoolander. Do you know what it's like to be another model and be in Derek Zoolander's shadow? You want to hear something crazy? Your work in the winter 95, International Male catalog, made me want to be a model. I freaking worship you man!

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You have chosen wisely my friend! :)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I was due.

    [/QUOTE]


     haha...law of averages.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Chara is a freak of nature & I hope he reitres a Bruin, but he's no longer the superstar. PK is next to Weber & Doughty on my list of wants. Price still is too unproven to me, but if I had a choice of who I'd want in net against the Habs? I'd take Price any day. IMO I think Tuukka has some sort of inner demon that beats him when he plays against Montreal. Rask playing his best against the Habs is the exception rather than the norm. He just seems to hardly ever play well against them. But, with the exception of Andy Moog & Gillies Gilbert I haven't actually seen a Bruin goalie ever to be consistently good against them. But it sucks when even the likes of Bunny Larocque & Peter Budaj have outplayed the likes of Cheevers & Rask. But, against anyone else I'm taking Tuukka every time until Price actually starts putting in an overall better body of work above Tuukka. Shupe & Kel? Don't bother trying to change my mind about Price. My opinion on this matter is the same as Shupe's on Rask contract.

    "Why is a puck called a puck? Because Dirty little bastar d was taken!"- Marty Brodeur

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Chara is a freak of nature & I hope he reitres a Bruin, but he's no longer the superstar. PK is next to Weber & Doughty on my list of wants. Price still is too unproven to me, but if I had a choice of who I'd want in net against the Habs? I'd take Price any day. IMO I think Tuukka has some sort of inner demon that beats him when he plays against Montreal. Rask playing his best against the Habs is the exception rather than the norm. He just seems to hardly ever play well against them. But, with the exception of Andy Moog & Gillies Gilbert I haven't actually seen a Bruin goalie ever to be consistently good against them. But it sucks when even the likes of Bunny Larocque & Peter Budaj have outplayed the likes of Cheevers & Rask. But, against anyone else I'm taking Tuukka every time until Price actually starts putting in an overall better body of work above Tuukka. Shupe & Kel? Don't bother trying to change my mind about Price. My opinion on this matter is the same as Shupe's on Rask contract.

    "Why is a puck called a puck? Because Dirty little bastar d was taken!"- Marty Brodeur

    [/QUOTE]


    Chara was a Norris finalist just last season and people were starting to wonder how a trophy for the league's best defenseman has only been awarded to Chara once so far with his body of work. Do you think he might be a finalist for the Norris again next year? How about the year after that? Chara is still a superstar player any way you want to slice it and until PK starts killing penalties,etc, I'll take Chara ahead of him every day..

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to lucdufour's comment:[QUOTE]

    The 4th year of Chara's contract is only a 4 million cap hit, a bargain compared to Subban.

     If Krug or Hamilton were not on the Bruins, then I would want Subban.  Subban is a great power play anchor and much better than Chara when he had that role. That is a crucial spot that can help win games by itself.

     However, Chara is better everywhere else.  He has better range, positioning, defensive instincts, and can shut down larger/prolific forwards.

    Rask vs. Price.  [/QUOTE]


    Chara is a country mile better everywhere else.

    Tuukka and Price are about even. I would give an edge in the post season when you thorw in 2013.

    Both are better than Crawford!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Thanks for bolding some of my thoughts San.  It makes me feel good.

    I do want to add that PK was way overused by the Habs. He played the entire 2 minute powerplay on several occasions. He then also plays significant minutes on the penalty kill.  Even though he is probably the best Top of the powerplay guy in the world, no player should get those consecutive minutes if he is to be consistent in other areas at the NHL level.  I hope the Habs never learn this lesson for the Bruins sake.  While it might win them a series here or there, it it not a recipe for winning the Cup.

    I will also add that PK was the odd man out on Team Canada's Defense which also speaks to the trust in him in All Zones of the ice and shutting down other top forwards in the world.

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Your perspective is slanted because of the age of Chara. Obliviously, Subban/Price looks good going forward.

    The rest is up to the supporting cast. I'll take Boston's supporting cast over the Shabs.

    Looking into the medium-range future, I think the Rask/Hamilton combo will outdo Subban/Price.

    And looking into the long-range future, I think Subban/Hamilton will blow Subban/Price to smithereens.

    [/QUOTE]

    My perspective isn't slanted.  The ages are real.

    You think Hamilton and Rask will outdo Subban and Price.  Your perspective is slanted because you had too many shots of vodka before you posted.

    [/QUOTE]

    Impossible! I don't like vodka. Beer. Whiskey. Scotch. Rum. Etc. Etc.

    If you're talking wine...that is a different story. But never enough to cloud the mind..

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Impossible! I don't like vodka. Beer. Whiskey. Scotch. Rum. Etc. Etc.

    If you're talking wine...that is a different story. But never enough to cloud the mind..

    [/QUOTE]


    Wheats,you must have had enough to cloud the mind on two occasions in the last few months, you said the B's were going to make a big trade with a team in western Canada and you said Germany wouldn't win the World cup because the fix was in, neither came true. You usually don't jump the gun like that. ;) 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]


    Chara was a Norris finalist just last season and people were starting to wonder how a trophy for the league's best defenseman has only been awarded to Chara once so far with his body of work. Do you think he might be a finalist for the Norris again next year? How about the year after that? Chara is still a superstar player any way you want to slice it and until PK starts killing penalties,etc, I'll take Chara ahead of him every day..

    [/QUOTE]

    Terrific argument Dez, but I still take Subban today. 2 years ago no, and I don't even think Charas' game has slipped as much as most think, if at all. With all the injuries last year, and rookie d-men, I'd argue last year was one of his better years. I just think right now, Subban has more of an impact on a game and his defensive work has improved. I think with Gorges gone, he may be asked to do more penalty killing.




     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Who cares if the guy isn't put on the ice to kill penalties?  Marchand doesn't play on the man advantage.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't even think Charas' game has slipped as much as most think, if at all. With all the injuries last year, and rookie d-men, I'd argue last year was one of his better years.


    [/QUOTE]


    Completely agree with this part of your statement. Scores 17 goals, Norris finalist, captaining a young D corp....what more do people want? lol

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    Great thread.

    Just so we're clear, Chara's cap hit does drop to 4 in year 4 because he's over 41.  So I'll ignore that year and assume that at that point Chara is being paid to be a 41 year old 3/4 defenseman.

    So for the next 3 years would I take Chara/Rask at 14 million or Subban/Price at 15.5?  No question it's Chara/Rask.  I would take the Bruins combo hands down even if the cash was the same, the extra 1.5 million (and the ability to have a Smith as a #6 forward instead of a Caron) is a nice bonus.

    Rask is superior to Price.  Rask has outplayed him in nearly every opportunity.  He has better stats, a better record, better playoff success and to me is just a better, more consistent goalie.  He was even better in the Olympics that everyone loves to praise Price for, and if Rask hadn't been sick for the semi's Finland might have made it to the finals and had a real shot at beating Canada (they almost did in the previous match).  Price got way to much credit for the playoff win over the Bruins last year.  The Bruins mad him look good, and with I believe with around 40% of the Canadien goals on the PP they made Rask look bad... and with that it was still close.  Price hasn't shown the consistency to last more than a playoff round and was already losing focus when he was injured against the Rangers.

    Chara is vastly superior to Subban.  Chara is one of the few players in the game who truly dominates.  He's exceptionally difficult to play against, and is also a significant contributor to offence.  Subban has some special skills.  His one-timer is spectacular and can have an impact in games.  He plays a unique, unpredictable style that can mix things up.  He's also solid and very difficult to hit.  But he's hardly a shut-down man by any stretch, and his offence, while good, is not especially remarkable.   There are more than a half-dozen players in the league just as productive or better.  Even Chara is close, but there is no one superior to him on D.  Maybe one or two that could even be called an even match.

    And beyond pure talent there are the intangibles.  I've already said that I consider Price a bit fragile, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's a goalie you can build around.  Subban -- he's a disgrace.  I'll be the first to say I love  having a rat on a contending team to stir things up and play with an ego and fire up the bench.  But I don't think that player should ever be your star, your go-to guy or your captain.  They should never be the player the others look to.  In Chara the Bruins have a leader and star that others can admire and aspire to be like.  When he speaks, others listen.  When the pressure's on he can keep it together.  With Subban he's the first guy to crack and b*tch at teammates.  Twice now in the last two years we've seen the habs implode in a playoff series.  Subban was at the heart of the in-fighting against the Sens, yelling and b*tching at his fellow Canadiens.  Unlike Chara who goes above and beyond to play a clean classy game and not hurt anyone, Subban looks for cheap shots and players with their head down.  Rather than come to a teammate's aid he turtles when challenged.  When that's your star, the attitude spreads to the others, for better or worse.

    So it's no question, I'm taking Chara/Rask for the next 3 years and beyond.  Even when you consider the age difference between Chara and Subban it's Chara all the way.  I only take Subban if he's a 5 million, secondary player with someone like Chara to keep his ego in line.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: A Different Look At Finances

    In response to OatesCam's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great thread.

    Just so we're clear, Chara's cap hit does drop to 4 in year 4 because he's over 41.  So I'll ignore that year and assume that at that point Chara is being paid to be a 41 year old 3/4 defenseman.

    So for the next 3 years would I take Chara/Rask at 14 million or Subban/Price at 15.5?  No question it's Chara/Rask.  I would take the Bruins combo hands down even if the cash was the same, the extra 1.5 million (and the ability to have a Smith as a #6 forward instead of a Caron) is a nice bonus.

    Rask is superior to Price.  Rask has outplayed him in nearly every opportunity.  He has better stats, a better record, better playoff success and to me is just a better, more consistent goalie.  He was even better in the Olympics that everyone loves to praise Price for, and if Rask hadn't been sick for the semi's Finland might have made it to the finals and had a real shot at beating Canada (they almost did in the previous match).  Price got way to much credit for the playoff win over the Bruins last year.  The Bruins mad him look good, and with I believe with around 40% of the Canadien goals on the PP they made Rask look bad... and with that it was still close.  Price hasn't shown the consistency to last more than a playoff round and was already losing focus when he was injured against the Rangers.

    Chara is vastly superior to Subban.  Chara is one of the few players in the game who truly dominates.  He's exceptionally difficult to play against, and is also a significant contributor to offence.  Subban has some special skills.  His one-timer is spectacular and can have an impact in games.  He plays a unique, unpredictable style that can mix things up.  He's also solid and very difficult to hit.  But he's hardly a shut-down man by any stretch, and his offence, while good, is not especially remarkable.   There are more than a half-dozen players in the league just as productive or better.  Even Chara is close, but there is no one superior to him on D.  Maybe one or two that could even be called an even match.

    And beyond pure talent there are the intangibles.  I've already said that I consider Price a bit fragile, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's a goalie you can build around.  Subban -- he's a disgrace.  I'll be the first to say I love  having a rat on a contending team to stir things up and play with an ego and fire up the bench.  But I don't think that player should ever be your star, your go-to guy or your captain.  They should never be the player the others look to.  In Chara the Bruins have a leader and star that others can admire and aspire to be like.  When he speaks, others listen.  When the pressure's on he can keep it together.  With Subban he's the first guy to crack and b*tch at teammates.  Twice now in the last two years we've seen the habs implode in a playoff series.  Subban was at the heart of the in-fighting against the Sens, yelling and b*tching at his fellow Canadiens.  Unlike Chara who goes above and beyond to play a clean classy game and not hurt anyone, Subban looks for cheap shots and players with their head down.  Rather than come to a teammate's aid he turtles when challenged.  When that's your star, the attitude spreads to the others, for better or worse.

    So it's no question, I'm taking Chara/Rask for the next 3 years and beyond.  Even when you consider the age difference between Chara and Subban it's Chara all the way.  I only take Subban if he's a 5 million, secondary player with someone like Chara to keep his ego in line.

    [/QUOTE]

    How did the Bruins make Price look good? Why could he not have just played well? Have you checked Rasks numbers against the Habs? If the Bruins make Price look better than he is like you said, then how with Rasks numbers against the Habs have they not made him look bad. That post looked like it was written in black and gold ink.




     

     
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