Agents: They are good people!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    Agents are sleazy.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : A lot of comments here not reading the full story (not picking on you, dez, but this is a good kick off point).  Heatley didn't get scammed 6 years later, he's filing this suit, subsequent to an earlier suit, and it's a significant research product to put all of the pieces together. 
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
    Book, in the link I provided it states that Heatley has been represented by JP Barry since 2004 and that the subsequent real estate dealings with the McAlpines and theft from bank accounts took place in 2008 and 2009. What am I missing?
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/166674466.html?refer=y
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from grizzlybear69. Show grizzlybear69's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    Going out on a limb here.Bryz.must be very happy with his agents fleecing of the Flyers.Thats a good days work,
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    Ah Book, I love to read your stuff.  Solid argument and evidence.  Sometimes Einstein is correct. " if you cannot explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself", NAS proposition is laden with paralysis.  Not surprizingly so as he is careful not to project an argument only to create an argument.  Your analysis although very exacting does exclude people over 18.  Bernie Madoff did many an injustice to Harvard University to simple common millionaries, so saying an 16 year old is duped by a sleaze agent is not entirely correct.  Unless you mean "Motherless children have a hard life."  

    Book out of context of course:

    "Maybe the bulk of the questionable behaviour by agents has to do with the ways they attempt to sway the judgment of kids who aren't equipped with the critical skills to resist.  You're a 16 yr old kid in junior hockey and an agent says he'll buy you a car now and get you an endorsement with the local pizza place etc., just pay him back at 6% of your deal when you sign on in the NHL, you probably take that deal.  A lot of players have been doing what their agents told them to do since a very young age.  In some cases, they go to extents that are illegal. McAlpine was probably Heatley's agent since he was a 17 yr old kid finishing a high school diploma." 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]Fair enough Book, I don't know how long I want to battle this one, as I think we're just taking a different perspective on a general issue and would probably agree on specific examples, given full information. Sure you hire an agent to help you get your money, but not so much to manage it (get an accountant), and certainly not for real estate endeavors.  Unless you don't mind some risk.   I won't be the tiniest bit surprised if Heatley wins the lawsuit and was indeed swindled by a low character person.  I don't know the details.  But I will never believe that merely being an agent makes you sleazy (until you change professions), or being a banker makes you greedy, or being a lawyer makes you dishonest. I also know that if this happened to me I would be equal parts furious at the swindler and ashamed at my own bad judgments and decisions.  I research and vet the people I invest with, I research and vet the people who watch my kids, I research and vet the people who work on my house.  If we all agree that there are a ton of sleazy people in the world, I don't think it is unreasonable to call for a little personal responsibility to protect oneself. The best way to get rid of sleazy agents is not to hire them.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    I can't believe a group of adults, could publicly debate such a fundamental truth...and not unanimously agree with the above...before this thread hit 4 posts.
      My 9 year old is seriously considering suspending my BDC privledges.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from felixwas. Show felixwas's posts

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    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : I can't believe a group of adults, could publicly debate such a fundamental truth...and not unanimously agree with the above...before this thread hit 4 posts.   My 9 year old is seriously considering suspending my BDC privledges.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    Indeed, we have labored mightily and brought forth a gnat.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : Book, in the link I provided it states that Heatley has been represented by JP Barry since 2004 and that the subsequent real estate dealings with the McAlpines and theft from bank accounts took place in 2008 and 2009. What am I missing? http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/166674466.html?refer=y
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    The key part is the way McAlpine leveraged the trust he developed with Heatley in 2003 by supporting him through the death of Dan Snyder.  That's got to be a pretty solid bond, and it's pretty sleazy to trade on that kind of emotional territory in order to take advantage of a guy.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : The key part is the way McAlpine leveraged the trust he developed with Heatley in 2003 by supporting him through the death of Dan Snyder.  That's got to be a pretty solid bond, and it's pretty sleazy to trade on that kind of emotional territory in order to take advantage of a guy.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
    Book, you'll get no argument from me in that regard. At least you've provided me with some reasoning as to why he was still doing business with a guy who he'd already replaced years earlier. Cheers!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : Bobby Orr is NOT sleazy! 
    Posted by NeelyOrrBourque[/QUOTE]

    Follow the logic, Nite.

    If agents are sleazy

    and Bobby Orr is an agent

    then...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    If Romney is sleazy all Republicans are sleazy

    If one cop is corrupt all cops are corrupt

    If one stripper is nice n wholesome all strippers are nice wholesome lol

    Daaahhhh Ok...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : How can you say a guy who wouldn't accept a dime from Chicago because he didn't play is a sleaze NAS? Bobby became an agent, because he wanted to be something his crook of an agent wasn't. An honest one. You're a person who likes to talk facts. Show me one where Bobby Orr has EVER been even remotely accused of doing anything "sleazy". Until you can show me that, that quote from you is the worse & very few of the times you typed garbage. 
    Posted by NeelyOrrBourque[/QUOTE]

    Some of you guys are so ridiculous.  You act as if a guy who played hockey 40 years ago for the team you currently follow is a friend or relative.

    You don't know him.  You don't know anything about him personally.  All you know is what you've read and what has been said about him on TV and on the radio. 

    Stop being so ridiculous.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Agents: They are good people! : You're the one who's sounding ridiculous here NAS. You're calling one of the classiest players to ever play the game a sleaze because he's an agent. I don't know Orr personally no, but I've hung around people who know him & played with him! And I've NEVER, EVER heard ANYBODY say a negative thing about him. If you know something to the contrary share it! I really think you're way off in left field on this one! Unless you're Allan Eagleson you'll be be hard pressed to find anyone on your side there budz! 
    Posted by NeelyOrrBourque[/QUOTE]

    He's an agent.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    A little out of date, but this paragraph from Ron MacLean reminded me of this conversation:

    "In 2004-05, the player agents were all over the map in their bid to outflank their own leadership, and I always felt they played a divisive role which busted that union. They’re not really sending great signals this time either. By signing veteran players to long deals, they’re indicating they believe the owners will win and that they only stand to make less in a new deal. It doesn’t matter. And these agents will not tangle with Fehr."  http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/09/04/spf-nhl-nhlpa-cba-ron-maclean.html

    That sounds both sleazy and cowardly to me.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In response to Bookboy007s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A little out of date, but this paragraph from Ron MacLean reminded me of this conversation:

    "In 2004-05, the player agents were all over the map in their bid to outflank their own leadership, and I always felt they played a divisive role which busted that union. They’re not really sending great signals this time either. By signing veteran players to long deals, they’re indicating they believe the owners will win and that they only stand to make less in a new deal. It doesn’t matter. And these agents will not tangle with Fehr."  http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/09/04/spf-nhl-nhlpa-cba-ron-maclean.html

    That sounds both sleazy and cowardly to me.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just explain to me one more time how a long term deal that is reached between a veteran player and the owner of a team, is primarily the fault of the agent's sleaze?

    The owner wants a long-term deal, the player wants a long term deal, and the agent facilitates it.  Right?

    You're saying it is the responsibility of the agent to talk both parties out of such a deal?  Or else they're sleazy and cowardly?

    "Ryan, Chuck, have a seat.  Let's talk less money and a shorter term, you know, for the good of the game.  Because we agents believe the owners  will probably win the CBA standoff and we wouldn't want to get money now that might not be available later."  Plausible?

    And yet,  it is  not sleazy for the owner to offer such a deal and then (one month later) argue that these exact deals should not be allowed as they are making the game unprofitable for owners??  The 'Protect me from how stupid I was last month' argument??

    When agents and owners both try to secure as much money as possible in these negotiations, I can't understand how on earth one side is deemed sleazy and the other is just being savvy.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    Maybe they're both being sleazy?  The only difference is that there are rules and laws governing the behaviour of owners as employers; there's virtually nothing to slow down the greed of an agent.  Read between the lines of MacLean's piece and what you have is agents encouraging their clients to behave in ways that undermine the unity of the union in order to get their piece.  And owners, yes, doing things they're bargaining to remove, but again, few of the deals you're seeing are more than one year above the first offer five year limit and the salary dollars will be subject to any roll-back as a result of the new CBA, so the dollars will be brought in line.  Even if this is certain owners undermining their collective position, it's no different than what agents are doing for their clients.  So I'd turn the question back on people who accuse the owners of doing something stupid - why are the owners stupid or sleazy and the agents just guys doing their jobs?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    In response to Bookboy007s comment:

      So I'd turn the question back on people who accuse the owners of doing something stupid - why are the owners stupid or sleazy and the agents just guys doing their jobs?



    Fair enough for me.  I think they're all in pretty much the same boat.  Ethics are taking a distant backseat to prosperity.  Like agents, I think some owners are stupid, some some sleazy, some are both, and a few are neither.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Agents: They are good people!

    Book, "turning the question around" doesn't further your argument, it kills it.  It's mostly a mechanism to deflect a pretty good point that's just been made, and second, it infers a suggestion there may be behavior between the two that is quite consistent.   If agents operate like owners, they're hardly as bad as you guys say, they're just average.
    Therefore Fletch...it isn't "fair enough".

    And this whole "ethics" thing...  If they're all pretty much the same(which I agree), maybe we're the ones who have the distorted view.  
     

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