Alexandrov to the K

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    Alexandrov to the K

    Haggs is reporting that Yuri Alexandrov is signing with the KHL. 

    Bummer.  Can we stop drafting these guys?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In fairness, it sounds like Khoklavchev is fully committed to playing in N. America and Chudinov was acquired with a late round pick (6th?), but still, it seems like drafting Russians at all is a risky proposition.  Especially for a puck-moving defensmen like Alexandrov, where players are known to develop slowly into the position.  There's no way these guys are going to spend 2-3 years on buses in the AHL when they can make much more money in the K.
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    In fairness, it sounds like Khoklavchev is fully committed to playing in N. America and Chudinov was acquired with a late round pick (6th), but still, it seems like drafting Russians at all is a risky proposition.  Especially for a puck-moving defensmen like Alexandrov, where players are known to develop slowly into the position.  There's no way these guys are going to spend 2-3 years on buses in the AHL when they can make much more money in the K.
    Posted by Fletcher1

    Fletch, I must admit that if he isn't making Boston this year, it doesn't matter to me where else he spends the season. Some guys still go back and forth from North America  to the K and back(Radulov I think).
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    In fairness, it sounds like Khoklavchev is fully committed to playing in N. America and Chudinov was acquired with a late round pick (6th), but still, it seems like drafting Russians at all is a risky proposition.  Especially for a puck-moving defensmen like Alexandrov, where players are known to develop slowly into the position.  There's no way these guys are going to spend 2-3 years on buses in the AHL when they can make much more money in the K.
    Posted by Fletcher1



    I completely agree...it IS risky drafting these guys. It seems like they jump ship and run to the motherland, unless they get their way.
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K : Fletch, I must admit that if he isn't making Boston this year, it doesn't matter to me where else he spends the season. Some guys still go back and forth from North America  to the K and back(Radulov I think).
    Posted by dezaruchi


    I kind of get that line of thinking, but from what I hear on Alexandrov, the one thing that is really missing from his game is the adaptation to physical N. American style hockey.  So he may be well-suited for the KHL and he may do well there, but it seems to me that the best way to learn N. American hockey is in...N. America.  I bet he never comes back.  Hope I'm wrong.

    Is Radulov coming back this year?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    Alexandrov was a waste, but so are most 2nd+ rounders.  I don't mind the pick because he was Russian, but because he wasn't that good.  If he was good, he would be in the NHL and his Russian roots wouldn't be an issue.  Khoklavchev seems like a good pick, and as you said, he is definately ready to put in some dues in N.A. to make the NHL.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K : I kind of get that line of thinking, but from what I hear on Alexandrov, the one thing that is really missing from his game is the adaptation to physical N. American style hockey.  So he may be well-suited for the KHL and he may do well there, but it seems to me that the best way to learn N. American hockey is in...N. America.  I bet he never comes back.  Hope I'm wrong. Is Radulov coming back this year?
    Posted by Fletcher1

    That's the latest report on him.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hockguy0818. Show Hockguy0818's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    I really like Koko. It wouldn't surprised me if he cracked the lineup within the next 2-3 years. He should get a LOT better with another year in Windsor. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:

    Alexandrov was a waste, but so are most 2nd+ rounders.  I don't mind the pick because he was Russian, but because he wasn't that good.  If he was good, he would be in the NHL and his Russian roots wouldn't be an issue.  Khoklavchev seems like a good pick, and as you said, he is definately ready to put in some dues in N.A. to make the NHL.
    Posted by OatesCam


    I don't think 2nd round picks, and #37 picks overall, should be expected to be a waste.  Granted, many don't make the NHL, but that's still good territory.  The Bruins picked Lucic and Marchand later on in that same draft.

    Alexandrov was not necessarily a case of a bad pick due to talent.  Lots of smallish PMD's spend time in the AHL before they make it.  This was a bad pick because his committment to develop here was undermined by better opportunities to play in his native country.  In fairness to the scouts, the allure of the KHL was not as great in 2006 as it is now.


    I would say that the Bruins should only draft Russians who are NHL ready, seem totally committed to playing in N. American (playing junior here helps), or they should only use later round picks on those guys (4th-7th rounders).  There is a lot of talent in the 2nd round.  With the emergence of the KHL it has become to risky to take Russian players there with uncertain interest in N. America.

     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    Canadiens have the same issue with their prospect Alex Yemelin.  Man these guys are pains in the ar se
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    I can't blame hockey players for wanting to play tax free and in front of their families n friends, I can't say I wouldn't do it. The few games I saw Alexandrov in Providence he looked disengaged to me.

     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    I can't blame hockey players for wanting to play tax free and in front of their families n friends, I can't say I wouldn't do it. The few games I saw Alexandrov in Providence he looked disengaged to me.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin

    San, I can see your point about the cash along with friends and family but I just don't get how an athlete wouldn't want to test himself against the world's best competition. Soderberg also comes to mind.......
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    Your in an organization and the GM of that team trades for guys like Kampfer, McQuaid, Bartkowski and Cohen as you think your making progress then your agent calls...I totally agree with your point Dez but I know what I would do if I were Alexandrov's agent...

    Imagine if agents had never seen "Wall Street", Who doesn't want to be Gordon Gecko in that world ?
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    He wasn't any good when I saw him play.  No room for him on the Boston squad.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    We want Boston's 2nd rounders to turn out, and they've done very well in recent years, but you should not expect them to turn out.  You should not expect it because, more often than not, 2nd rounders do not turn into any kind of impactful NHL'er.

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K : I don't think 2nd round picks, and #37 picks overall, should be expected to be a waste.  Granted, many don't make the NHL, but that's still good territory.  The Bruins picked Lucic and Marchand later on in that same draft. Alexandrov was not necessarily a case of a bad pick due to talent.  Lots of smallish PMD's spend time in the AHL before they make it.  This was a bad pick because his committment to develop here was undermined by better opportunities to play in his native country.  In fairness to the scouts, the allure of the KHL was not as great in 2006 as it is now. I would say that the Bruins should only draft Russians who are NHL ready, seem totally committed to playing in N. American (playing junior here helps), or they should only use later round picks on those guys (4th-7th rounders).  There is a lot of talent in the 2nd round.  With the emergence of the KHL it has become to risky to take Russian players there with uncertain interest in N. America.
    Posted by Fletcher1

     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    I looked at an eight year stretch to see if there a pattern to the number of second rounders who have some sort of meaningful career (min. 300 games).  I also compared to number of first rounders each year.

    1995 – 6  (Jochen Hecht, Georges Laracque) 18 FR 

    1996 – 7 (Matt Cullen, Colin White) 12 FR

    1997 – 3 (Henrik Tallinder, Kristian Huselius) 13 FR

    1998 – 6 (Cheechoo, Mike Fisher ) 19 FR

    1999 – 3 (Jordan Leopold, Mike Commodore) 10 FR

    2000 – 11 (Bryzgalov, Paul Martin) 16 FR

    2001 – 6 (Cammalleri, Derek Roy) 18 FR

    2002 – 7 (Duncan Keith, Trevor Daley) 18 FR

    I had planned to do ten years, but realized that, even nearing a decade from the draft, there were active players who wouldn't meet the threshold just because they started their careers later than the first rounders - Johnny Boychuk was a second rounder in 2002, but he's played 125 games because he stalled in the AHL in the Avs system.  This also makes me wonder if some of the dip from first to second rounders has to do with a tendency to give more opportunities to first rounders, and have more patience with them.

    It looks like between 1/2 and 1/3 as many 2nd rounders make it as 1st rounders.  It varies pretty widely depending on how well the scouts have done from year to year.  However, in no year does the number of players add up to 30 (2007 is best at 27).  Just quickly skimming the rest of the rounds, I would guess that on average, there's maybe 30 players per draft who will play 300 NHL games - one player per team.  Maybe the way to judge your team's draft is - did they get their one player?  Two is a win, one's par, zero's a fail.  

    All that to say - Alexandrov's year, they got Kessel, Lucic, Marchand - that's a win no matter what happens with Alexandrov. 

     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    There goes my "summer topic" (NAS thread).  Yuri was drafted before Lucic, a tribute of sorts to his potential as a NHL player.  His development in the KHL undoubtedly fit his physical side. He was a slender built player who may have been able to play with men, ironically in that they wre not in the best of conditioning.  His tenure in the Bs organization can be sized up in the following quote from last year.  The cultural shock or inability to grasp the language probably contributed to his poor play.  (spot on Duinne - I capitulate).

    “Obviously, there’s a language barrier there and [there's] cultural differences. Once he’s on the ice, he feels most comfortable and that’s a good thing. But there’ll be systematic things and nuances he’ll have to figure out. We’ve tried to attack that communication and tried to get better at it because there is a gap there. And the onus falls on him a little bit to understand that and immerse himself in that.”- Bruins Assistant GM Don Sweeney on Alexandrov, Wilmington, Mass.; July 10, 2010

    More than likely he would have stayed in Providence if not for his decision.  Since he has a two year contract with the Bs he more than likely would have returned to the KHL or European leagues thereafter.  

    The best updated analysis on line I could find was as follows:


    Certainly his potential to be a listed still as a "Kaberle" like player.  Above average ability to pass and move laterally, yet straight speed was below average.  It is best he was able to go to a another beautiful city  "St. Petersburg" and hone his skills.  He will only be valuable as a Bruin in a trade imo if at all.  

    Not much help I realize, as I stated in the NAS thread, those who watch the player are best to assess the player's abilities.  Nonetheless he was worthy a second round pick, and as Book mentioned a second round pick is basically a gamble at best.  

     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    It's interesting to see how patterns go regarding where players are drafted and how that round has produced NHL players in previous drafts. I think most of us have been around hockey long enough to realize that every player should be judged individually and not lumped in with statistics based on previous drafts.

    That's why watching prospects intrigues me. You never know when a team can come up with a diamond in the rough. Marchand is the latest one for the B's. Who's next ?  
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    To me this doesn't mean that he will never try to play in the NHL again. The chances that he remains in Europe are greater than he would return. My hope is he gains confidence which where I think he is lacking, shines for motha Russia in an International tournament then decides to come back because there is nothing else for him to do in the KHL.

    It would be real nice if this happens as Hamilton is entering and some of the Bruins vet defensman are exiting. The percentages are against this hope because the entry level money is always better in Europe.
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    You're talking about two different things: patterns in draft history that apply to the kind of expectations you might have when trading for draft picks and the skills of your scouting team in being able to find kimberlites in any round.  Or, to put it in your terms of judging players individually, the patterns are about evaluating organizational performance and overall talent pool as opposed to the narrow focus on individual players.  You need to think about both.  What the patterns tell you, and the overall rates of success, is how much better you have to be at spotting and developing talent to see a signficant return on lower round picks.  And that's where watching development leagues is most interesting for me - whose that kid on the third line who isn't very big, but he made two or three of the most memorable plays of the game.

    Once you draft a player, then yes, you're doing everything you can to turn him into the best player he can be or you're not doing your job. 
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    "Yuri Alexandrov, the 37th overall pick in the 2006 draft by Boston, will play for St. Petersburg of the KHL this season. The Bruins recently assigned the defenseman to St. Petersburg, and the process is expected to be finalized shortly. Alexandrov will have two years remaining on his entry-level NHL contract if he wishes to return Stateside. Last year, in his first season of North American hockey, Alexandrov had 6 goals and 13 assists in 66 games for Providence. This year, the farm club will be stocked with defensemen, such as Andrew Bodnarchuk, Matt Bartkowski, Colby Cohen, David Warsofsky, and Ryan Button. A crowded blue line could have affected Alexandrov’s development had he stayed in Providence. “We felt he would be better served developing over there,’’ said Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli. “They’ve got a good team in St. Petersburg. I think he improved. He acclimated in his time in Providence. He stalled a bit at the end. We’re willing to have him develop over there.’’

    So it looks like PC approved the move, not that he could have stopped it, and has no problem with Alexandrov playing in the KHL for a couple years.

    Does anyone remember a player going to Europe in the middle of their development then returning to the AHL or NHL after ?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    " Yuri Alexandrov , the 37th overall pick in the 2006 draft by Boston, will play for St. Petersburg of the KHL this season. The Bruins recently assigned the defenseman to St. Petersburg, and the process is expected to be finalized shortly. Alexandrov will have two years remaining on his entry-level NHL contract if he wishes to return Stateside. Last year, in his first season of North American hockey, Alexandrov had 6 goals and 13 assists in 66 games for Providence. This year, the farm club will be stocked with defensemen, such as Andrew Bodnarchuk , Matt Bartkowski , Colby Cohen , David Warsofsky , and Ryan Button . A crowded blue line could have affected Alexandrov’s development had he stayed in Providence. “We felt he would be better served developing over there,’’ said Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli . “They’ve got a good team in St. Petersburg. I think he improved. He acclimated in his time in Providence. He stalled a bit at the end. We’re willing to have him develop over there.’’ So it looks like PC approved the move, not that he could have stopped it, and has no problem with Alexandrov playing in the KHL for a couple years. Does anyone remember a player going to Europe in the middle of their development then returning to the AHL or NHL after ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin

    Radulov is supposed to return to Nashville this season.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    " Yuri Alexandrov , the 37th overall pick in the 2006 draft by Boston, will play for St. Petersburg of the KHL this season. The Bruins recently assigned the defenseman to St. Petersburg, and the process is expected to be finalized shortly. Alexandrov will have two years remaining on his entry-level NHL contract if he wishes to return Stateside. Last year, in his first season of North American hockey, Alexandrov had 6 goals and 13 assists in 66 games for Providence. This year, the farm club will be stocked with defensemen, such as Andrew Bodnarchuk , Matt Bartkowski , Colby Cohen , David Warsofsky , and Ryan Button . A crowded blue line could have affected Alexandrov’s development had he stayed in Providence. “We felt he would be better served developing over there,’’ said Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli . “They’ve got a good team in St. Petersburg. I think he improved. He acclimated in his time in Providence. He stalled a bit at the end. We’re willing to have him develop over there.’’ So it looks like PC approved the move, not that he could have stopped it, and has no problem with Alexandrov playing in the KHL for a couple years. Does anyone remember a player going to Europe in the middle of their development then returning to the AHL or NHL after ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Zherdev falls in this category I believe.  He's not a great case and I don't know how representative it can be considered.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    I believe that was the Ranger's plan with Cherepanov(sp?).

    Hopefully Alexandrov works out one day.  I understand the pick, when it was done.  But now, knowing what we know about the KHL, I would prefer to see Russian prospects like him chosen with later round picks, given the risk.

    Apparently the biggest hole in Alexandrov's game is not so much talent-related, but rather his current physical inability to play and endure the N. American style of game (what I have heard, don't know myself).  Leaving the AHL and going back to Russia would not seem to be the best way to address that weakness.
     
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    Re: Alexandrov to the K

    In Response to Re: Alexandrov to the K:
    I believe that was the Ranger's plan with Cherepanov(sp?). Hopefully Alexandrov works out one day.  I understand the pick, when it was done.  But now, knowing what we know about the KHL, I would prefer to see Russian prospects like him chosen with later round picks, given the risk. Apparently the biggest hole in Alexandrov's game is not so much talent-related, but rather his current physical inability to play and endure the N. American style of game (what I have heard, don't know myself).  Leaving the AHL and going back to Russia would not seem to be the best way to address that weakness.
    Posted by Fletcher1


    Alexandrov knows what to expect and what he needs to work on; whether he does, and improves, we'll see, but at least he knows the parameters. It's a better situation for him to be in Russia considering the logjam of prospects the Bruins will have in Providence, as he won't have to worry about getting enough ice time.

    He does have talent and it takes some guts to come to the U.S. and live on your own (as opposed to a junior player who has a billet family for support), so I'll give him credit for that. It's a very, very difficult transition. I don't think Chiarelli has washed his hands of him, so neither will I. We'll see what happens.
     
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