An look at #22 without gloves

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    An look at #22 without gloves

    Everyone preaches the game changing fights we endure from Shawn Thornton.  I say all of his fights are worthless and useless and if they didn't exist, the game would be much better.  Let's take a statistical look at Thornton's fights this year.

    1.  10/23 vs. Goon Boogaard at 12:23 1st period NYR up 2-0.  7.5 minutes later, the B's score a powerplay goal and lose the game 3-2.  Thornton's fight effect:  Zero.

    2.  11/10 vs Goon Godard at 6:33 1st period PIT up 1-0.  Minutes later, the B's score on the powerplay.  The add five in the third period and win 7-4.  Thornton fight effect:  Zero.

    3.  11/18 vs Goon Hordichuk at 16:31 of the 1st period BOS up 1-0.  Zero goals until the third period, Bruins win 4-0.  Thornton fight effect:  Zero.

    4.  11/28 vs. Goon Boulton at 10:31 of the 2nd period ATL up 3-0.  Bruins get one goal less than two minutes later.  Lose the game 4-1.  Thornton fight effect:  1

    5.  12/1 vs. Goon Shelley at 16:35 of the 1st period, BOS just went up 2-0.  (Now, if momentum swings with good fights, why would Thornton "agree" to fight Shelley after the B's just took a two goal lead?)  No more goals until the third period.  Bruins win 3-0.  Thornton fight effect:  Zero.

    6.  12/9 vs. Goon Gillies at 7:51 of the 2nd period.  Tied 1-1.  Five minutes later, Marchand scores shorthanded.  No more scoring until five minutes left in the third period.  Thornton fight effect:  Zero.

    7.  12/23 vs Goon Boulton at 0:02 of the 1st period.  0-0.  Bergeron scores shorthanded at 3:00.   No other goals until the second period.  Thornton fight effect:  Zero.


    He fights other goons and doesn't change a thing about the game of hockey.

    Can anyone tell me why people think two cement heads stopping play in order to dance for a bit, tug each other's jerseys, then hug has anything to do with hockey?

    Thornton is a prime example.  I'd much perfer to see Jordan Caron taking these minutes.  If he turns into a good or great PK guy, it'll give Bergeron some rest, which might create better production down the other end.

    Thornton and the rest of the goons listed about (along with plenty more) need to go back to the AHL or the farm.  What they do is not hockey.  It's fake fighting on skates.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    I think we're nearing unanimous agreement on the staged fights. I didn't even bother to watch the fight when I was at the game. I stayed seated while everyone else stood up to watch, but on a rare occasion with a team that has trouble getting motivated for games, maybe it has some value in firing the team up.

    The brawl the other night and fights that result from protecting teammates from borderline hits (the Meyer hit was borderline especially because of the situation. 4-1, few minutes left) are a completely different story though. Those are just part of the game and happen in all sports.


    (bottom line: the only result from a fight is an injury to an opponent or yourself. if you're going to injure another player, you better have a decent reason)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fp4778. Show fp4778's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    Aside from the goonery Thornton actually brings a bit more than some of the others. The guy is tied for 5th in goals on the Bruins which probably says alot more about the rest of the Bruins than Thornton but that is a topic for another day. That's pretty good given his role and ice time. I don't think you can take it away from the guy this year that he is actually effective as a 4th line hockey player and not just a goon.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from screw-cindy-and-ovie. Show screw-cindy-and-ovie's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    I was very happy to see Thornton pop in 2 the other night, especially in front of his parents. However, the Bruins can't get 2 goals from a goon every night. Assuming Thornton doesnt score, we win 2-1 on a rare turnover from Big Buff that Bergeron put in. I also hope it doesnt get to thornton's head. Good for him that he scored 2 no doubt, but he has to remember his role on the team. Hes an enforcer who is paid to police the ice, not score. Goals should not be top priority on his list, but if he scores, he scores, its icing on the cake.

    As for the staged fights, I agree with NAS. The staged fights are boring and really serve no purpose. The Savard Line Brawl at the end of the game is what frighting in hockey is all about
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    Actually Thornton has a decent shot at times, even his backhand. However he is usually on the ice with the opposing team's 3rd defensive pairing, plus he has two hard working, better skating linemates that create some opportunities. However, his helter-skelter skating often interferes with his own linemates and does not contribute consistently as a checking forward. His "staged" fights are more of a distraction than an impetus, and he has very few "passion" generated fights, if any. Waving his stick up high, which is a bad habit, leads to other penalties. Replacing Thornton with a more skilled hockey player will enhance this Bruins team, particularly as it tries to resolve line Chemistry and a more effective PP.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    So if Caron takes Thornton's minutes, who plays the enforcer role?  Your criticism should be directed more at the enforcer role in general (which you kind of do, I guess) rather than Thornton on a personal level.  Every team has one, B's are no exception.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from djbosox2004. Show djbosox2004's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]So if Caron takes Thornton's minutes, who plays the enforcer role?  Your criticism should be directed more at the enforcer role in general (which you kind of do, I guess) rather than Thornton on a personal level.  Every team has one, B's are no exception.
    Posted by hangnail[/QUOTE]
    ==================================
     Good points,especially since Thorton is the only one with nuts out there. The rest of them should be wearing skirts and makeup.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rjd57. Show rjd57's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves


    Thornton scores two goals and tries to pump up his team by absorbing punches to the head, and people are still calling for him to be replaced? Are these the same people who want the fourth line's minutes to be reduced, who think Thomas is a bad goalie because he's unconventional, who think Bergeron is overpaid because his goal total is low, who think Ference is overpaid, who think Rask should be backed up by one of the sieves in Providence?

    If you think the Bruins don't need an enforcer, you don't know anything about hockey. Period. The enforcer PREVENTS other teams from taking runs at your skill guys. As a result, he actually reduces the amount of goonery and injuries, if he's any good. And Thornton is one of the best.  The notion of replacing Thornton with Caron, or any other ineffective skill player, is ridiculous.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

           "I'd much perfer to see Jordan Caron taking these minutes."

    Thornton and Recchi taking a few nights off hear and there would not kill either player for the development of a few prospects.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    N-O-T

    The reason Thorton is in the lineup is b/c other teams have cement heads on their roster that run around and take liberties on star players.  Dave Semenko and Bob Probert(very skilled though) had roles to protect 99 and 19. 

    I don't hate staged fights and I do watch hockeyfights.com a lot and really like when teams like Philly and the NYR play each other for hope of a fight.  

    I don't think a fight changes the pace of a game like it used to...mainly b/c back in the day almost all the better known players could also drop the gloves when they had to.  Todays euro style of play means you get 70% of the lineups with skill and the other 30% is grit and fighters.  Most teams do have one legit guy...but I believe that they are going to be gone in the next 5+ yrs.  Problem is you will get more guys like Ott/Carcillo/Konopka etc etc that can play and fight and annoy.

    Boogieman/Scott/Big Mac/King/Parros/Shelley all have one role and about 3 mins of ice time to mix it up.  It is a freak show...but I still like watching the occassional dust up.  

    I actually played agaonst Shelley when he played for Dalhousie University.  He was the worst skater on the ice.  Now he makes 700,000 a year.  

     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves



    My biggest problem with the enforcers and hockey violence in general is "the code."

    Example, after the Savard hit Cooke must fight Thornton once.  And because of this 'code' all is said and done after that fight.  And this is "right" because...  because of some mealy mouth crap.

    Why?

    Why shouldn't there be violence against Cooke by each and every player every time?

    Why should it end there?

    I'll even go further, what's wrong with playing the game of cripple Cooke and the score being secondary?  I know it isn't the 70's.  I'm not saying play every game like that.

    What I am saying is that someone should take a run at Cooke.  Why should he be allowed to try to end guy's careers and no one can do that to him?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves



    Oh.  another out of the box idea.  Between periods play Muhammed clips from hockey fights.com, should increase goal scoring by 30%.

    How about this real idea?  Sit your fighter in playoff games.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]So if Caron takes Thornton's minutes, who plays the enforcer role?  Your criticism should be directed more at the enforcer role in general (which you kind of do, I guess) rather than Thornton on a personal level.  Every team has one, B's are no exception.
    Posted by hangnail[/QUOTE]

    How about no one plays the "Skating Clown" role?  If the opposition decides to dress their Skating Clown, the B's have a distinct advantage.  If their Skating Clown takes liberties (which no of them every do anymore because of "The Code"), Lucic, Chara, Stuart or Campbell can answer back.

    No, every team does not have one.  Start with Tampa.  Who is their Skating Clown? 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]My biggest problem with the enforcers and hockey violence in general is "the code." Example, after the Savard hit Cooke must fight Thornton once.  And because of this 'code' all is said and done after that fight.  And this is "right" because...  because of some mealy mouth crap. Why? Why shouldn't there be violence against Cooke by each and every player every time? Why should it end there? I'll even go further, what's wrong with playing the game of cripple Cooke and the score being secondary?  I know it isn't the 70's.  I'm not saying play every game like that. What I am saying is that someone should take a run at Cooke.  Why should he be allowed to try to end guy's careers and no one can do that to him?
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    Every time Cooke took the ice, a Bruin should have skated over to him, dropped the gloves and punched him in the face.  EVERY TIME.

    Instead, we get Thornton's staged fight, a calm "come get what's coming to you" fight a minute into the game and for the rest of the night, Cooke was a free man.

    And they lost the game anyway.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]N-O-T The reason Thorton is in the lineup is b/c other teams have cement heads on their roster that run around and take liberties on star players. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Does this happen anymore?  How is Boogaard going to take a cheapshot at anyone.  He moved like a Galapagos Turtle.  The rest play by their Love Thy Brother Code, created by Skating Clowns to protect Skating Clowns from Skating Clowns.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from edogg3. Show edogg3's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    Oh, now I remember why I don't bother reading these comments.

    Idiocy.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves : How about no one plays the "Skating Clown" role?  If the opposition decides to dress their Skating Clown, the B's have a distinct advantage.  If their Skating Clown takes liberties (which no of them every do anymore because of "The Code"), Lucic, Chara, Stuart or Campbell can answer back. No, every team does not have one.  Start with Tampa.  Who is their Skating Clown? 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]Montreal has a bunch of "skating clowns" but none of them are tough guys.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    Thornton's play was wanted by the Bs management. He was signed as a free agent.  That original rationale was reset again when he signed a contract this year.  His play is valued by management.  Whether or not his fights are staged or begot by emotion is moot when the coach essentially gives a player like Thornton ice time. Add seven goals to those thoughts as well. He will remain on the team.

    BTW SanDog you are correct, Recchi and Thornton need to rest as does Thomas.    
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    N-O-T,

    Skating clowns made me laugh.  I agree and the fact that in most recent yrs teams w/o a legit goon have won the cup. 
    1.Chicago(they had Eager but he isnt a heavyweight and actually can play the game).
    2. Pitt(Godard didnt see a minute of ice in the playoffs but has his name on the cup).
    3. Detroit(havent had a legit fighter since the best of all time/Probert).

    Carolina didnt either.
    Leafs/Rangers are great examples of wasted money on legit heavy weights. 

    If I was GM I would have a guy that can fill multiple roles.   A guy like Cartner is known for his fists.  But to play defense in the NHL you need to be a decent player.  Cartner is an ideal guy b/c he can take on all comers, play PK and a regular shift. 

    I actually don't mind Thorton.  He can play the game some.  And he adds a lot more to the lineup than Wheeler or Ryder who are invisible most nights.

    N-O-T.  I don't think we will ever have an all euro style league.  And I know thats not what you are saying.  I think the league is slowly getting rid of the "Skating Clowns"(I like this term) and replacing them with guys who can take draws, PK and semi-regular shift.  The bottom line is that no team has 4 lines of skilled players.  Most teams have 2 scoring lines, a checking line and a dump and bump line where the goal is to change the pace of the game, not take dumb pims and to hit- anything else from those lines are gravy.
    I think the salary cap will eventually elimate what you hate.  I know paying Boogieman a million+/season is an absolute joke. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves : How about no one plays the "Skating Clown" role?  If the opposition decides to dress their Skating Clown, the B's have a distinct advantage.  If their Skating Clown takes liberties (which no of them every do anymore because of "The Code"), Lucic, Chara, Stuart or Campbell can answer back. No, every team does not have one.  Start with Tampa.  Who is their Skating Clown? 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I'd rather have Thornton in the box for 5 minutes rather than any of the 4 other players that you mention, especially Lucic and Chara.  And we don't play Tampa Bay 82 times per year, so I still like Thorts in the lineup. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves : How about no one plays the "Skating Clown" role?  If the opposition decides to dress their Skating Clown, the B's have a distinct advantage.  If their Skating Clown takes liberties (which no of them every do anymore because of "The Code"), Lucic, Chara, Stuart or Campbell can answer back. No, every team does not have one.  Start with Tampa.  Who is their Skating Clown? 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
    Steve Downie by far. That guy is a goon.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    For the trolls who state that the Bruins wear skirts, let's start with Lucic, Chara, Boychuck, McQuaid, Campbell, Syuart, Ference and even Kreji. Plus don't overlook Bergeron if the infraction is over the line. All can and are willing to fight in a passion incident like the Meyer hit on Lucic. Every guy on the ice was involved, even Savard without his helmet. This team is tough. Claude needs to limit his restraints and let them go at it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    Lucic and Chara are paid big money b/c they are big players and should be on the ice.  BUT- they were given these contracts based on physical play and yes that involves fighting.  Personally I really like Thorton but he is the 2nd best fighter on the team.  And as much as I want Chara on the ice, I also want my Captain sticking his nose in the mix every chance he gets.  There is no fighting in the playoffs.  get your licks during the regular season.  I personally feel Chara's play is so much better when he hits and fights.  I know I wouldnt wanna play against him if he were being a nasty-borderline dirty player.  He used to be.  Got his contract and thinks he is Lidstrom. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    callo-

    Downie plays with Stampkos.  Far from a goon.  He is a pest and a good player.  And will drop the gloves with just about anyone.  I actually like his game.  Sure he crosses the line a lot.  But so what.  Its hockey
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: An look at #22 without gloves

    In Response to Re: An look at #22 without gloves:
    [QUOTE]callo- Downie plays with Stampkos.  Far from a goon.  He is a pest and a good player.  And will drop the gloves with just about anyone.  I actually like his game.  Sure he crosses the line a lot.  But so what.  Its hockey
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    I would love Downie on the B's. I was just stating that he plays a similar game as Thornton but has dirty tendencies. I should of said at times he can be a goon. He has done some stupid stuff out on the ice.
     
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