Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitch19. Show nitch19's posts

    Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    Something like he didn't think Thornton was the man to build around, and, "I just didn't think we could win the Cup with him."

    Granted, it took five years, but......... 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    Wonder if San Jose, deep down and behind closed doors, feels the same way.

    Thornton is one of my favorite players, but he should be the best 2nd line center in the league and not the top dog you build around. If he were that, whatever team he is on would have a legit shot at the Cup hands-down. Imagine Jumbo Joe backing up Richards, Toews, Stamkos or Getzlaf....or even better...Joe backing up Sedin in the Kessler role. He'd be as good as, well, Kessler.  :)

    In this sense, O'Connell was right. Not the guy to build around. Still felt it was stupid to let such a talent go, though. Imagine instead of "building around" Joe as the top pivot, they realized his better role and kept him as the #2 when Savard was added a few years later. With Bergeron as the #3? Wow.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    Like Ol' Harry said, Joe has a good batting average, he just never hits any home runs. Just about sums it up.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]Wonder if San Jose, deep down and behind closed doors, feels the same way. Thornton is one of my favorite players, but he should be the best 2nd line center in the league and not the top dog you build around. If he were that, whatever team he is on would have a legit shot at the Cup hands-down. Imagine Jumbo Joe backing up Richards, Toews, Stamkos or Getzlaf....or even better...Joe backing up Sedin in the Kessler role. He'd be as good as, well, Kessler.  :) In this sense, O'Connell was right. Not the guy to build around. Still felt it was stupid to let such a talent go, though. Imagine instead of "building around" Joe as the top pivot, they realized his better role and kept him as the #2 when Savard was added a few years later. With Bergeron as the #3? Wow.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]
    That's the problem though Asmaha. If Thornton and his contract stayed then it's very unlikely that Savard(or Chara even) would've been signed in Boston.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : That's the problem though Asmaha. If Thornton and his contract stayed then it's very unlikely that Savard(or Chara even) would've been signed in Boston.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. In this fantasy world, there would be no Chara.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    I remember Mike wanted to trade him in the off-season and harry told him that there was no way he could come back from a lock out without Thornton. I truly beleive Thornton will win a Cup before his career is over. I think behind closed doors San Jose still wonders how the heck they got Joe Thornton for Primeau,Sturm and Stuart. I think he takes some unwarranted criticism on these boards since he isnt a Bruin anymore. I seem to remember Charas captaincy being questioned here a mere few months ago.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]I think behind closed doors San Jose still wonders how the heck they got Joe Thornton for Primeau,Sturm and Stuart. I think he takes some unwarranted criticism on these boards since he isnt a Bruin anymore.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    yup. Whether we could have won a cup or not with Joe, we didn't get enough value in return. horse has been beaten to death, let it go.



     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    I have to say, I don't agree with most of the Thornton sentiment around here.. He is not a bolsterous leader, certainly.. Many players aren't.. A stat the Bruins post often is "savard has the second most assist in the league since.." he trails thorton heavily.

    O'connell knew it was now or never and made a desperation move, similar to the trade epstien made by trading the face of the franchise hoping it would pay off and it didn't.

    The bruins were supposed to be in the best shape coming out of the lock out remember?  We weren't, ownership/gm etc blew it.

    Joes problem in boston is that he was such a big guy, and that wasnt his game.. He is a better play maker then savard, in eric lindros body.. And bruins fans wanted him to be another neely, they couldnt look at a player of that size and accept him as a pure playmaker.

    The knock was he's soft, this season the playoffs ended and he had to have shoulder surgery? as well as surgery to repair a broken finger.. I believe when he had the dismal series against monteal he needed surgery at the end as well..

    If san jose goes to trade him at some point, there will be no short list of suitors, and that speaks volumes..

    The knock that he can win a cup? We gave up on him at 25.. Yzerman was what 33 when he won his first? The fact is he was not a bergeron/crosby type player who can handle the load at 23 years old.. And the team around him wasnt that good..

    No problem with him being traded, but it was one of the worst trades in the history of sports, punctuated by the fact that only one player in all of sports was ever traded mid season in a year he won the MVP..

    His contract.. was $5.5 mill at the time half a mill better then savard, so yes we would not ahve had savard and chara, but prove i dont remember savard being a deep part of the cup run, and thornton and chara certainly sound like the building blocks for a franchise..

    I was at the game the day we traded him and it was awful..
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    The Bruins are the current Stanley Cup champs. Doug Wilson is still trying to justify why he keeps Jumbo around by bringing in a better leader in Havlat. I really do hope Thornton wins a cup just not at the Bruins expense.

    I don't believe Boston would have won with Joe even if Jacobs had not told MOC to wait till after the lockout to sign free agents. O'Connell wanted to keep the 2004 team intact but JJ didn't want any payroll right before or right after the lockout. Chiarelli and Bruins get the last laugh on Jacobs no matter how much money he saved or made.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    I agree with those who say that the return for Thorton was pretty poor.  And I definitely think it was sour grapes for O'Connell to offer his opinion of Joe not being a centerpiece years after the fact and because the Bruins were successful this year.  It's like he was trying to justify a mediocre trade rather than just being the bigger person and moving on.  Just my opinion. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    Great thread.

    As far as I'm concerned 2006 was the watershed year for the Bruins with Harry finally calling it a day. Amazing what can can achieve in five years.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]The Bruins are the current Stanley Cup champs. Doug Wilson is still trying to justify why he keeps Jumbo around by bringing in a better leader in Havlat. I really do hope Thornton wins a cup just not at the Bruins expense. I don't believe Boston would have won with Joe even if Jacobs had not told MOC to wait till after the lockout to sign free agents. O'Connell wanted to keep the 2004 team intact but JJ didn't want any payroll right before or right after the lockout. Chiarelli and Bruins get the last laugh on Jacobs no matter how much money he saved or made.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Sandog,
    bourque didn't win till we shipped him out, would anyone fault his play or dare say you cant win with him?  Hockey's a team sport, thornton is one of the best, theres no way around that, he just wasn't made to be the face of a boston (or any other highpressure) franchise..

    And I think you missed the boat on the havlat trade entirely, after the playoffs he added Burns, following in the mold of the bruins and going do a better defensive player, and if anything he "ridded" the team of heatley who was probably at his threshold in SJ anyways..

    They traded two high skill players out, and brought one back, that would lead me to believe they can get by with thorton running the offense..
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]I remember Mike wanted to trade him in the off-season and harry told him that there was no way he could come back from a lock out without Thornton. I truly beleive Thornton will win a Cup before his career is over. I think behind closed doors San Jose still wonders how the heck they got Joe Thornton for Primeau,Sturm and Stuart. I think he takes some unwarranted criticism on these boards since he isnt a Bruin anymore. I seem to remember Charas captaincy being questioned here a mere few months ago.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    couldn't have said it better myself....

    instead of portraying Joe T. as the problem, the B'S could've used him as part of the solution....

    Chara could've still been brought aboard just not Savard....

    if the B'S aren't able to repeat, i'm pulling for Joe....

    this argument is starting to get old....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : couldn't have said it better myself.... instead of portraying Joe T. as the problem, the B'S could've used him as part of the solution.... Chara could've still been brought aboard just not Savard.... if the B'S aren't able to repeat, i'm pulling for Joe.... this argument is starting to get old....
    Posted by days-of-Orr[/QUOTE]
    I think the opposite. You may have still seen Savard come in but there was very little chance of seeing Chara and Thornton playing on the same team while both made top dollar.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : They traded two high skill players out, and brought one back, that would lead me to believe they can get by with thorton running the offense.Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    You missed the boat on why Havlat was brought in he's a better leader than Thornton. How's San Jose done so far with Jumbo running the offense in the playoffs ?

    No where did I mention Bourque (that analogy means nothing) nor blame just Joe for the Bruins being ousted by the Shabs in 04' ever. Also I applauded Wilson for bringing in Burns as a great move when that thread came out at the time of the move.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    How is martin Havlat someone who has never lived up to his potential a better leader than Thornton? On what basis are you stating this?How do you know what kind of leader Havlat is? He's never been captain, has he ever been an assistant captain?  I don't get why Thorntons leadership is questioned. Is playing a seven game series in the playoffs with broken ribs a sign of poor leadership? I know he was scoreless, i'm guessing by going by his track record that the ribs played that much of a factor. Is challenging and fighting Ryan Getzlaf at the drop of the puck to start the 3rd period of a playoff game to get his team going the sign of poor leadership? Is challenging Ryan Kesler to fight at the puck drop of the SJ-Van series a sign of poor leadership, or handing Luke Richardson a beating after he clobbered Glen Murray a sign of poor leadership? He has been named captain of TWO NHL franchises, unless you people know more than the higher ups of an NHL team I'd say you just nit pick on him since he no longer wears a bruins sweater...Marty Havlat a better leader than Joe Thornton. C'mon, how many locker rooms have you and Marty been in at the same time for you to say that?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]I have to say, I don't agree with most of the Thornton sentiment around here.. He is not a bolsterous leader, certainly.. Many players aren't.. A stat the Bruins post often is "savard has the second most assist in the league since.." he trails thorton heavily. O'connell knew it was now or never and made a desperation move, similar to the trade epstien made by trading the face of the franchise hoping it would pay off and it didn't. The bruins were supposed to be in the best shape coming out of the lock out remember?  We weren't, ownership/gm etc blew it. Joes problem in boston is that he was such a big guy, and that wasnt his game.. He is a better play maker then savard, in eric lindros body.. And bruins fans wanted him to be another neely, they couldnt look at a player of that size and accept him as a pure playmaker. The knock was he's soft, this season the playoffs ended and he had to have shoulder surgery? as well as surgery to repair a broken finger.. I believe when he had the dismal series against monteal he needed surgery at the end as well.. If san jose goes to trade him at some point, there will be no short list of suitors, and that speaks volumes.. The knock that he can win a cup? We gave up on him at 25.. Yzerman was what 33 when he won his first? The fact is he was not a bergeron/crosby type player who can handle the load at 23 years old.. And the team around him wasnt that good.. No problem with him being traded, but it was one of the worst trades in the history of sports, punctuated by the fact that only one player in all of sports was ever traded mid season in a year he won the MVP.. His contract.. was $5.5 mill at the time half a mill better then savard, so yes we would not ahve had savard and chara, but prove i dont remember savard being a deep part of the cup run, and thornton and chara certainly sound like the building blocks for a franchise.. I was at the game the day we traded him and it was awful..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    One smart post!  Sandogs too!  Thornton should have never ever had been made a captain after the dismantling of the Bs team after the lockout.  I do believe the leadership thing is a bit overrated, but players like Recchi have a certain respect that allows them to project their play onto the team.  Thornton was simply not capable of that role, nor do I think he is now.  The Thornton trade was thrown away in a fit of poor management, if they waited till March at the trade deadline, the reward would have been more substantial.  By the way if you look at the cap hits with the trade you cannot come up with 7 million to sign Chara.  So that argument is not valid.  Dumas move by the Bs management!   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : I think the opposite. You may have still seen Savard come in but there was very little chance of seeing Chara and Thornton playing on the same team while both made top dollar.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    There is one important component missing to the Chara angle.  Without Chiarelli I doubt chara comes.  Without the trade, Mikey maybe keeps his job.  So, as much as I  hated that trade, the chain of events leads us to today, which is pretty damn good.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : There is one important component missing to the Chara angle.  Without Chiarelli I doubt chara comes.  Without the trade, Mikey maybe keeps his job.  So, as much as I  hated that trade, the chain of events leads us to today, which is pretty damn good.
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]
    Agreed. The dynamic of the entire organization was changed. Easy to say now that the changes were for the better. I was as shocked and angry as any Bruins fan on the day of the trade but it really didn't take long for the "new Bruins" to win me over.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton? : There is one important component missing to the Chara angle.  Without Chiarelli I doubt chara comes.  Without the trade, Mikey maybe keeps his job.  So, as much as I  hated that trade, the chain of events leads us to today, which is pretty damn good.
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]

    Without Neely; Chara doesn't come. Both Savvy & Chara admitted that it was Cam that solidified the decision to come to Beantown.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    I still think there's too much made of the ''return" brought back for Jumbo.  Lots of teams in lots of sports move high-salary players they know they are not going to be able to re-sign, just to get "something" for them.  Other trades are made as pure salary dumps.  No one overanalyzes the ''return" on those deals.

    In Jumbo's case, the B's decided, rightly or wrongly (I completely agreed at the time and still do) that JT wasn't the guy to build your Cup team around and devote the top dollar to.  They moved him and completely freed up an enormous amount of money in doing so.  Regardless of other small pieces, the transaction is :  - Thornton = + Chara, period.  Then you add a defense-first coach in Julien and you have your five year plan. 

    I agree with kev in that I think JT wins a Cup eventually because he continues to be on very strong teams.  I see Thornton like ARod- a great player who simply is not going to lead you to a Championship, but if he keeps playing on strong playoff teams he's got to win one eventually.

    The impact of Chara on this team is indisputable. I really like my framed Boston Globe Page 1 of him holding the STANLEY CUP.  Its also very, very telling that JT has played on teams much stronger than the B's since he's left and he hasnt even been to a Final.

    I don't know how much credit O'connell deserves, but I like how it turned out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    In Response to Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?:
    [QUOTE]I remember Mike wanted to trade him in the off-season and harry told him that there was no way he could come back from a lock out without Thornton. I truly beleive Thornton will win a Cup before his career is over. I think behind closed doors San Jose still wonders how the heck they got Joe Thornton for Primeau,Sturm and Stuart. I think he takes some unwarranted criticism on these boards since he isnt a Bruin anymore. I seem to remember Charas captaincy being questioned here a mere few months ago.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Thorton may see his Stanley Cup wish come closer, now they got rid of that cancerous Heately from their team.....You know. When Joe was here, he was the biggest thing going on and all of a sudden he was gone. I still wonder, if there was some personal stuff that went on behind closed doors ???  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Anyone Remember One Of O'Connell's Comments After Trading Thornton?

    Ferrence was part of that deal was he ???  I wonder if I would trade Ferrence one on one for Thornton today ????

    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
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