anyone surprised

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    anyone surprised

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/nhl-lockout-doing-alarming-damage-to-brand/article6500907/

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    I can't say I buy it, really.  Most thought the NHL had shot itself in the groin by missing a whole year and then it hit a massive growth spurt.  Are people angry?  Sure.  But the football season only overlaps hockey by a couple of months and football is a once a week deal.  Lots of sports junkies out there who have come out of hockey rehab clean, but once they get a taste again....

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    Book, from a marketing standpoint this time will be different than the last, and as such the fans may be slower to return and the damage to the brand may be more permament.

    We sometimes forget that 2004-05 wasn't just resulting in a new CBA, but thanks to the Shanahan Summit, it also resulted in the "new" NHL, and the end of the deadpuck era. This also coincided with the entrance into the league of the lion's share of the 03 draft players as well as stars from the 04 and 05 drafts like Malkin, Ovechkin and Crosby. There were huge swaths of young high-end talent coming into the game at precisely the time the rules were changed to take advantage of that talent. It was a marketing dream, and it counteracted the distaste left by the lockout and in part helped create record growth in the league.

    There isn't going to be a Shanahan summit this time around, there won't be an end to a dead puck era, the game won't be changed to enhance it's marketability. There's no hockey benefit this time around like there was last time.

    A big part of why trhe NHL brand rebounded so quickly last time won't be present this time, and as such the brand will be slower to recover, imo.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    I don't know, red.  True, the return to the ice coincided with a change in how the game was played, but the success of that was, as you say, marketing.  They "fixed" some of the things that were plaguing the game.  Hard to say if that meant fringe fans suddenly bought in or if fans of the firewagon 70s and 80s came back or or or.  That's a story people tell, anyway.  It could as easily have gone the other way if concerns about the gimmick shootout had proven valid or if the other rule changes had come across as too much too soon.  Point being it was a risk.  It hasn't hurt.

    There was both an influx of exciting talent and a changing of the guard with the retirement of a number of generational players.  2005-06 was Lemieux's last year.  Sakic only played two more full years.  Forsberg only played 128 games after the lockout.  Messier's career ended at the same time as the lockout.  Yzerman played one more year.  In other words, yes, it worked out for the NHL that Ovechkin was just a blast to watch and that Crosby was a 100pt rookie, but they also lost a ton of star power.  As much as people like rookies, it takes time for them to fill that vaccuum left by established stars. 

    This time around, I think there's still plenty of new blood to charge up fan interest.  Year one of Yakupov and Schultz added to the trio of snipers in Edmonton; another kid from Cole Harbour (you know that will be the angle) in Nathan MacKinnon and maybe Jonathan Drouin and Seth Jones making the jump, too; a pile of 2011 and 2012 guys ready to step in potentially including Hamilton, Reilly, Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Strome, Baertschi, Noesen, Tarasenko, and maybe even the guy the Hockey News calls the best prospect outside the NHL in Kuznetsov.  Basically, any time you get a double class of new blood, it's exciting.

    Add to this that they have a significant National US contract which ensures they product is out there for people to see and remember why they missed it, and I don't buy the NHL's version of the fiscal cliff.  But then, I have no stake in it, so I can afford to be a sceptic.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I don't know, red.  True, the return to the ice coincided with a change in how the game was played, but the success of that was, as you say, marketing.  They "fixed" some of the things that were plaguing the game.  Hard to say if that meant fringe fans suddenly bought in or if fans of the firewagon 70s and 80s came back or or or.  That's a story people tell, anyway.  It could as easily have gone the other way if concerns about the gimmick shootout had proven valid or if the other rule changes had come across as too much too soon.  Point being it was a risk.  It hasn't hurt.

    There was both an influx of exciting talent and a changing of the guard with the retirement of a number of generational players.  2005-06 was Lemieux's last year.  Sakic only played two more full years.  Forsberg only played 128 games after the lockout.  Messier's career ended at the same time as the lockout.  Yzerman played one more year.  In other words, yes, it worked out for the NHL that Ovechkin was just a blast to watch and that Crosby was a 100pt rookie, but they also lost a ton of star power.  As much as people like rookies, it takes time for them to fill that vaccuum left by established stars. 

    This time around, I think there's still plenty of new blood to charge up fan interest.  Year one of Yakupov and Schultz added to the trio of snipers in Edmonton; another kid from Cole Harbour (you know that will be the angle) in Nathan MacKinnon and maybe Jonathan Drouin and Seth Jones making the jump, too; a pile of 2011 and 2012 guys ready to step in potentially including Hamilton, Reilly, Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Strome, Baertschi, Noesen, Tarasenko, and maybe even the guy the Hockey News calls the best prospect outside the NHL in Kuznetsov.  Basically, any time you get a double class of new blood, it's exciting.

    Add to this that they have a significant National US contract which ensures they product is out there for people to see and remember why they missed it, and I don't buy the NHL's version of the fiscal cliff.  But then, I have no stake in it, so I can afford to be a sceptic.



    "sceptic"?? Who hacked into Book's account?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    I think that in a couple years, the fans will be back at comparable levels.  But I really wonder what the calculation is on what will be lost this year and next year from the work stoppage.  I would think it is a huge number.  Possibly huge enough that no matter who ends up "winning" the final negotiations, both sides will come out well behind where they would have if the split the difference on a deal in August.  If that turns out to be the case, can we officially stop rationalizing that Fehr and Bettman are smart negotiators?  I still believe that the best negotiators are the ones that protect their own interests while getting a deal done.  It's not impossible, even in hockey and politics.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    People spend, vote and make serious decesions with emotion...allot. The sampling size, for me, is not enough and to my point above the disdain is more than likely made while not being able to see an NHL game. The last time owners n players had major malfunctions in both baseball and hockey the fans came back. It will be no different even if half of those "1,066 people" surveyed comeback.

    Most sports fans understand what's at stake money wise. They vent "I'm never coming back" but they always, always do. How many Red Sox fans did I read about saying they wouldn't comeback after the 94' strike or the Boone 03' homerun ? hundreds n hundreds because of emotion at the time they were asked.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    I think the kicker here is marketing dollars.  That's a big part of the attached story.  I have some experience with polling, so I have no problem with the sample size.  Potential flaws always arise because of the questions and how they're asked.  In this case, if there is some consistency in the way these opinions have been formulated....the results could mean something.

    Some of our best posters have weighed in on this one, and the fact that pretty much none of them dismiss the logic totally, suggests it's more than just possibility.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    Blah to the "brand".  It's hockey.  If they don't play for a year, hockey fans will be back.  If the "new" fans don't return, they would have left the next time their team sucked anyway.

     

    What all of the doomsday sayers are parroting is what Bettman, the players and I know:

     

    It's not about the NHL, it's about hockey.  Hockey fans don't love the NHL, we love hockey.  The NHL is the top league in the world, and, at the same time, the most accessible, so that's what we watch.  Give me local reporting and local news talk and local games with KHL teams and I'll watch that too.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    edit

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Blah to the "brand".  It's hockey.  If they don't play for a year, hockey fans will be back.  If the "new" fans don't return, they would have left the next time their team sucked anyway.

     

    What all of the doomsday sayers are parroting is what Bettman, the players and I know:

     

    It's not about the NHL, it's about hockey.  Hockey fans don't love the NHL, we love hockey.  The NHL is the top league in the world, and, at the same time, the most accessible, so that's what we watch.  Give me local reporting and local news talk and local games with KHL teams and I'll watch that too.

     



    Great Post Nas!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    edited!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from schlich. Show schlich's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    I actually prefer it if the masses are turned off. The last thing this sport needs is network involvement and the chase to become just like the other major sports. Real hockey fans won't go anywhere, because there is no other game like it. I hope that the sport takes a huge hit in popularity- won't change a thing for me. I'll be watching in an almost cult like fashion enjoying large Anglo Saxon types competing on the highest level with sticks, speed, skill, courage, desperation and occasionally punching each other in the face.

     



    Great Post J! 




    Anglo Saxon types???

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    yeah... you know.... white guys! on this note, i'll log off and let the bigots talk amongst themselves. the stupidity on this site surprises me on a daily basis, you'd think i'd be used to it by now. not sure what's worse ... the post by jwen or the one from NOB that read great post! unfreakin' believable. my guess is, NOB had no idea what "anglo-saxon" meant. ignorance is bliss

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to adkbeesfan's comment:

    yeah... you know.... white guys! on this note, i'll log off and let the bigots talk amongst themselves. the stupidity on this site surprises me on a daily basis, you'd think i'd be used to it by now. not sure what's worse ... the post by jwen or the one from NOB that read great post! unfreakin' believable. my guess is, NOB had no idea what "anglo-saxon" meant. ignorance is bliss



    NeelyOrrBourque and JWensink are the same poster and the racial side argument is one they've made before, and is naturally too-dumb to even dignify with a response.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    Wow, where did that little bit of non-sensical racism come from? JW, you do realize that most of the Bruins aren't even Anglo-saxon right? Bergeron, Chara, Rask, Lucic, Boychuk, Krejci, Rask, Seidenberg, Khudobin, Marchand, Paille aren't Anglo-saxon, or did you just mean white? If that's the case I hope Iginla and Evander Kane kick your a$$.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to red75's comment:

    Wow, where did that little bit of non-sensical racism come from? JW, you do realize that most of the Bruins aren't even Anglo-saxon right? Bergeron, Chara, Rask, Lucic, Boychuk, Krejci, Rask, Seidenberg, Khudobin, Marchand, Paille aren't Anglo-saxon, or did you just mean white? If that's the case I hope Iginla and Evander Kane kick your ***.



    You're just confusing a very, very simple mind with facts and reason...

    He's racist and hockey players look...whitish to him...don't complicate things for him.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    edit

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    Oy vey iz mir.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to adkbeesfan's comment:

    yeah... you know.... white guys! on this note, i'll log off and let the bigots talk amongst themselves. the stupidity on this site surprises me on a daily basis, you'd think i'd be used to it by now. not sure what's worse ... the post by jwen or the one from NOB that read great post! unfreakin' believable. my guess is, NOB had no idea what "anglo-saxon" meant. ignorance is bliss



    NeelyOrrBourque and JWensink are the same poster and the racial side argument is one they've made before, and is naturally too-dumb to even dignify with a response.



    WowA! Wait a minute Fletch. I am not JW, but nitemare-38. i changed my login because of identity theft. I am no way shape, or form racist. I have native & french blood in me, 2 of my closest friends are black, and Sandog can attest that Terry Mercury of NHL Home Ice on Satellite Radio is a friend of mine & he's black. I have East Indian, Asian & Pakistan friends. I honestly read this part of JW's blog

    the last thing this sport needs is network involvement and the chase to become just like the other major sports. Real hockey fans won't go anywhere, because there is no other game like it. I hope that the sport takes a huge hit in popularity- won't change a thing for me. I'll be watching.

    got distracted & missed the whole anglo saxon part. I deeply apologize to ANYONE including adkbeesfan for this mis-understanding. I believe that equality means equality for every single human being on this earth, not matter race, gender, or color. I am a lot of things, but a bigot & racist aren't them.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

     

    Wow, did that ever run off the rails and onto a highway and over a bridge into a ravine in Egypt somewhere.

    100% positive I'll be spending more on non-NHL hockey over the next couple of weeks at least.  AHL and College only for me until January at least.  Maybe longer.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    I missed something what or who is anglo saxon and how is it/he relevant to hockey?

    I clearly need to get out more.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    no harm no foul Nite - I never noticed it either until schlich brought it to my attention - I had stopped reading his post after the first sentence or two.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to adkbeesfan's comment:

    yeah... you know.... white guys! on this note, i'll log off and let the bigots talk amongst themselves. the stupidity on this site surprises me on a daily basis, you'd think i'd be used to it by now. not sure what's worse ... the post by jwen or the one from NOB that read great post! unfreakin' believable. my guess is, NOB had no idea what "anglo-saxon" meant. ignorance is bliss



    NeelyOrrBourque and JWensink are the same poster and the racial side argument is one they've made before, and is naturally too-dumb to even dignify with a response.



    WowA! Wait a minute Fletch. I am not JW, but nitemare-38. i changed my login because of identity theft. I am no way shape, or form racist. I have native & french blood in me, 2 of my closest friends are black, and Sandog can attest that Terry Mercury of NHL Home Ice on Satellite Radio is a friend of mine & he's black. I have East Indian, Asian & Pakistan friends. I honestly read this part of JW's blog

    the last thing this sport needs is network involvement and the chase to become just like the other major sports. Real hockey fans won't go anywhere, because there is no other game like it. I hope that the sport takes a huge hit in popularity- won't change a thing for me. I'll be watching.

    got distracted & missed the whole anglo saxon part. I deeply apologize to ANYONE including adkbeesfan for this mis-understanding. I believe that equality means equality for every single human being on this earth, not matter race, gender, or color. I am a lot of things, but a bigot & racist aren't them.



    Sorry, my mistake.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: anyone surprised

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    Only true PC racists would take it that way -

    I won't ever apologize for appreciating what the NHL is not - you think there's not a problem with the culture in the NBA or the NFL ? Oh...he said that he likes white guys who don't have 7 children with 7 women, carry guns, have dreadlocks coming out of their helmets, wearing 100,000 worth of earrings, and are covered on tattoos and conduct themselves like "gangstas" ...what a "racist"

    Yep - I like the NHL. I also like Iginla and Kane - SO, RED I hope your "wife" kicks your dumb azz

    keep your brainwashed liberal heads in the sand - dishonest cowards

    I supported Herman Cain for president - so , seriously GFY



    If you don't want to be mis-understood, don't use terms you don't understand like Anglo-Saxon.  And you should thank Red for explaining that term to you, and how your comment made no sense at all.  Maybe you learned something from her response...no?

    P.S. I'm not a liberal.  I'm just anti-stupidity.

     
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