Appreciating Marchand

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Appreciating Marchand

    Have seen a few suggestions in post-playoff threads that the B's could improve the team by trading Marchand.  Perhaps.  A couple of ideas have been Marchand and something for Evander Kane and more recently, Marchand and something for Eberle.


    I am not in favor is shipping #63 anywhere, unless there is a clear upgrade.  Based on some of the comments, it was a little striking how ready folks have been to move him or move on from him.


    Thought it was worth checking some numbers.


    Only 20 players have scored 25 or more goals in each of the past three seasons (or scored 15 in the strike shortened season).  Want to guess who is one of them?


    Here is the list:


    Ovechkin, Stamkos, Perry, Kessel, Pavelski, Neal, Pacioretty, Kunitz, Seguin, Marleau, Toews, Parise, Eberle, Nash, Hossa, Vanek, St. Louis, Simmonds, Marchand and Hall.


    Of that group, only Simmonds averaged a lower TOI than Marchand, who has seen his ice time drop from 17:37 to 16:57 to 15:56 this past year.  His PP TOI was only 0:29 this past season, and only has 10 PPG over the past 3 seasons, lowest total on the list.  As a percentage of his goals, only 14.1% have been on the PP over the past 3 seasons.  Only other players <20% are Toews and Nash, although each has averaged over 3 minutes of PP TOI over that span.  Simmonds, for example, has seen 44.4% of his goals come on the PP.


    Just thought these numbers were interesting and reinforce Marchand as a very productive 5x5 and PK player, and if afforded a bigger PP role, might push 30 goals.  Furthermore, and plenty think +/- is a BS stat, but Marchand leads the group over the past 3 years @ +90 (+17 ahead of the next best player).


    Marchand fits the system and has delivered the goods.  Hope the B's keep him around.


     


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Good stuff, Crowls. Interesting stats.  And I agree with you that unless he's shipped out for something that is a definite upgrade, Marchand should stay.  Trading him for a better fit doesn't make sense either as he isn't Phil Kessel and not willing to play the CJ system. He fits here and overall has performed well.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Still not enamored with Marchand at the moment but your points about keeping him do ring true.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

       Most of the players on your list, seem to have one major thing in common. They are streaky, hot/cold, type of players.

    Teams just have to hope that they are running hot in the playoffs, because there does not seem to be any way to predict or alter, the onset of the dreaded cold spell.

    I understand Marchand getting little PP time, since speed is his main asset, and it has limited value when setting up in the opponents' end, which requires size and strength for jamming the front of the net, and battles along the boards.

    As far as trading him, I tend to lose my "warm and fuzzy" feelings towards any player on a Bruins' team, that loses to the stink'n Habs. Can't help myself. So, except for maybe Bergeron, I don't have a problem, saying goodbye to any of these guys.

    As far as  trading him. only if they get an upgrade. That's the intent of every GM. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Any player coming back in a trade, will be flawed in some way. Otherwise, the other GM wouldn't be willing to move him, or else, you have probably given way more than what the player is really worth.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    Have seen a few suggestions in post-playoff threads that the B's could improve the team by trading Marchand.  Perhaps.  A couple of ideas have been Marchand and something for Evander Kane and more recently, Marchand and something for Eberle.

     

    I am not in favor is shipping #63 anywhere, unless there is a clear upgrade.  Based on some of the comments, it was a little striking how ready folks have been to move him or move on from him.

     

    Thought it was worth checking some numbers.

     

    Only 20 players have scored 25 or more goals in each of the past three seasons (or scored 15 in the strike shortened season).  Want to guess who is one of them?

     

    Here is the list:

     

    Ovechkin, Stamkos, Perry, Kessel, Pavelski, Neal, Pacioretty, Kunitz, Seguin, Marleau, Toews, Parise, Eberle, Nash, Hossa, Vanek, St. Louis, Simmonds, Marchand and Hall.

     

    Of that group, only Simmonds averaged a lower TOI than Marchand, who has seen his ice time drop from 17:37 to 16:57 to 15:56 this past year.  His PP TOI was only 0:29 this past season, and only has 10 PPG over the past 3 seasons, lowest total on the list.  As a percentage of his goals, only 14.1% have been on the PP over the past 3 seasons.  Only other players <20% are Toews and Nash, although each has averaged over 3 minutes of PP TOI over that span.  Simmonds, for example, has seen 44.4% of his goals come on the PP.

     

    Just thought these numbers were interesting and reinforce Marchand as a very productive 5x5 and PK player, and if afforded a bigger PP role, might push 30 goals.  Furthermore, and plenty think +/- is a BS stat, but Marchand leads the group over the past 3 years @ +90 (+17 ahead of the next best player).

     

    Marchand fits the system and has delivered the goods.  Hope the B's keep him around.

     

     

     

     




    Since it's a cap league we can take the argument for Marchand a step further as I'm sure his dollar per goal ratio is near the top of the league as well.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fanonymost. Show fanonymost's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Marchand clearly has his flaws and quirks, but he also has many very desirable skills that the Bruins value. Besides his strength as a 5v5 player, he and linemate Bergeron are reliable on the PK and deadly in shorthanded counterattack. Having a fourth-line penalty-kill duo ( choose from Paille, Campbell, Kelly ) to complement those two from your "checking" line allows minimal line-rolling disruption when faced with shorthanded situations - this is a tactical advantage for the Boston squad. 

    There may be changes to come for next year's rendition of the Bruins, but shipping off #63 is probably not high on the list.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    I think his five goals in his last 41 playoff games is damning.  That includes getting blanked by Toronto, blanked by Chicago and blanked by the 2014 playoffs.  He had one against Washington.

    In those three playoff years, Paille played in six less games and scored one more goal.  Paille!

    His act is tired.  A big part of his game was his rat factor.  Now it's expected, prepared for and doesn't work.  It's no longer the way he plays, but the way he plays when he wants to play that way.  

    And that snow job on Price was as stupid as it gets.

    His contract is good.  His regular season production is good.  I won't be upset if he is on the team next year, but I won't be upset if he's elsewhere either.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I think his five goals in his last 41 playoff games is damning.  That includes getting blanked by Toronto, blanked by Chicago and blanked by the 2014 playoffs.  He had one against Washington.

    In those three playoff years, Paille played in six less games and scored one more goal.  Paille!

    His act is tired.  A big part of his game was his rat factor.  Now it's expected, prepared for and doesn't work.  It's no longer the way he plays, but the way he plays when he wants to play that way.  

    And that snow job on Price was as stupid as it gets.

    His contract is good.  His regular season production is good.  I won't be upset if he is on the team next year, but I won't be upset if he's elsewhere either.



    The low goal total over the last 3 playoffs is disappointing, no question.

    That Washington series was brutal for all forwards,  Peverley was the top scorer, and Ference was 2nd.  Hard to put blame on Marchand alone for that series.  You call out poor goal totals against Toronto and Chicago, but fail to credit him for being a point/game player against the Rags & Pens. 

    Guy can get a little streaky, hard to argue.  That said, even with the low goal total, Marchand has only 6 fewer points than Bergeron over that 41 game period.

    I don't feel like his act is tired, certainly wasn't when they won the Cup.  If they make it back again, think he will be a big part of it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I think his five goals in his last 41 playoff games is damning.  That includes getting blanked by Toronto, blanked by Chicago and blanked by the 2014 playoffs.  He had one against Washington.

    In those three playoff years, Paille played in six less games and scored one more goal.  Paille!

    His act is tired.  A big part of his game was his rat factor.  Now it's expected, prepared for and doesn't work.  It's no longer the way he plays, but the way he plays when he wants to play that way.  

    And that snow job on Price was as stupid as it gets.

    His contract is good.  His regular season production is good.  I won't be upset if he is on the team next year, but I won't be upset if he's elsewhere either.



    I agree. All about contracts and his is not the problem. If PC can improve the team by shipping him out, so be it.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Marchand will have another 25+ goal regular season and then, when the playoffs come around, he will be neutralized into a non-factor.  He was a big (read: "new") factor in the 2011 run, even the Cup winning game.  3 seasons ago.

    I have no problem keeping him IF he is moved to line #4 during the 2015 playoffs.  He actually will work very well there.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    "I understand Marchand getting little PP time, since speed is his main asset, and it has limited value when setting up in the opponents' end, which requires size and strength for jamming the front of the net, and battles along the boards."


    There is only 3 players on the Bruins that back players off, because of their stick handling, on the PP. Krug, Soderberg and Marchand. I still don't know why Ward took Marchand off the 2nd unit of Soderberg, Smith, Bergeron and Hamilton. I used to refer to that PP unit as 1A because they had a great stretch of outperforming the Krejci, Iginla, Lucic, Chara and Krug 1B unit. Marchand should not have been taken off.


    As mentioned I am not pleased with Marchand's playoff performance this year either but I wouldn't agree with him being shipped out because of this years playoffs he was awesome against the Rangers and the Penguins in 2013. I think teams would line up to get Marchand but it would have to a very good package coming back. Last thing Chiarelli should do right now is trade one of his quickest most disruptive wingers on the team.


     


    Who needs speed anyways.


     


    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    Have seen a few suggestions in post-playoff threads that the B's could improve the team by trading Marchand.  Perhaps.  A couple of ideas have been Marchand and something for Evander Kane and more recently, Marchand and something for Eberle.

     

    I am not in favor is shipping #63 anywhere, unless there is a clear upgrade.  Based on some of the comments, it was a little striking how ready folks have been to move him or move on from him.

     

    Thought it was worth checking some numbers.

     

    Only 20 players have scored 25 or more goals in each of the past three seasons (or scored 15 in the strike shortened season).  Want to guess who is one of them?

     

    Here is the list:

     

    Ovechkin, Stamkos, Perry, Kessel, Pavelski, Neal, Pacioretty, Kunitz, Seguin, Marleau, Toews, Parise, Eberle, Nash, Hossa, Vanek, St. Louis, Simmonds, Marchand and Hall.

     

    Of that group, only Simmonds averaged a lower TOI than Marchand, who has seen his ice time drop from 17:37 to 16:57 to 15:56 this past year.  His PP TOI was only 0:29 this past season, and only has 10 PPG over the past 3 seasons, lowest total on the list.  As a percentage of his goals, only 14.1% have been on the PP over the past 3 seasons.  Only other players <20% are Toews and Nash, although each has averaged over 3 minutes of PP TOI over that span.  Simmonds, for example, has seen 44.4% of his goals come on the PP.

     

    Just thought these numbers were interesting and reinforce Marchand as a very productive 5x5 and PK player, and if afforded a bigger PP role, might push 30 goals.  Furthermore, and plenty think +/- is a BS stat, but Marchand leads the group over the past 3 years @ +90 (+17 ahead of the next best player).

     

    Marchand fits the system and has delivered the goods.  Hope the B's keep him around.

     

     

     

     




    Since it's a cap league we can take the argument for Marchand a step further as I'm sure his dollar per goal ratio is near the top of the league as well.



    exactly Dez, some pretty big contracts on that list.  Didn't check, but is anyone else even remotely close to 4.5 per?

    Brokering an immediate upgrade is an incredibly difficult proposition.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I think his five goals in his last 41 playoff games is damning.  That includes getting blanked by Toronto, blanked by Chicago and blanked by the 2014 playoffs.  He had one against Washington.

    In those three playoff years, Paille played in six less games and scored one more goal.  Paille!

    His act is tired.  A big part of his game was his rat factor.  Now it's expected, prepared for and doesn't work.  It's no longer the way he plays, but the way he plays when he wants to play that way.  

    And that snow job on Price was as stupid as it gets.

    His contract is good.  His regular season production is good.  I won't be upset if he is on the team next year, but I won't be upset if he's elsewhere either.



    Pretty well stated.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Great post Crowls.  

    I think you only trade him for an upgrade or to lower the cap.  I dont think it will get us an upgrade bc of the cap.  I say we keep him.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Agree with NAS that he has to step it up in the playoffs, but I also agreed with Chowdah when he asked why people were trading Marchand when wanting to add speed and skill...




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Seems pretty straight-forward to me: can Marchand adjust his game and find ways to be effective without always playing the agitator? The Refs simply aren't letting him play on that edge anymore. He has to find another way...and can he?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to asmaha's comment:

    Seems pretty straight-forward to me: can Marchand adjust his game and find ways to be effective without always playing the agitator? The Refs simply aren't letting him play on that edge anymore. He has to find another way...and can he?



    If he were 30+ i would say no.  But this guy can play. Doesnt need the rat style...even though it does get him going.   Im in favor of keeping.  Unless it makes us better. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from marco0863. Show marco0863's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I think his five goals in his last 41 playoff games is damning.  That includes getting blanked by Toronto, blanked by Chicago and blanked by the 2014 playoffs.  He had one against Washington.

    In those three playoff years, Paille played in six less games and scored one more goal.  Paille!

    His act is tired.  A big part of his game was his rat factor.  Now it's expected, prepared for and doesn't work.  It's no longer the way he plays, but the way he plays when he wants to play that way.  

    And that snow job on Price was as stupid as it gets.

    His contract is good.  His regular season production is good.  I won't be upset if he is on the team next year, but I won't be upset if he's elsewhere either.




    you quit on players way too early and when thry're way too young. Thank march for the cup in 2011 , best rookie in playoffs ever. also i have not checked but how many did he get vs Pitt last year. 

    keep march too risky to trade him. dale hunter ken linseman made a career of being pests . keep march if recent history has taught us anything .... well look what happened the last time we traded a big name player

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    I love Marchy,his lack of playoff goal scoring notwithstanding,but i would prefer he stay with the B's,maybe adjust his style a bit.He's a young player with a great contract and i think it would be foolish to give up on a young guy like this,all this being said,if he is traded,it better be for an equivalent or better player or some type of package deal. And course any players coming back better have blazing speed,hah!  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Marchand's antics are a focus of the NHL officiating. No longer is his edgy play a motivation, but it is a deterrent. He needs to find find another level of play in the post season. PC though will move Marchand only for Cap relief (combo trades to rid Kelly's contract), and to upgrade Marchands speed and skill. It seems unlikely PC will trade Marchand given those conditions. 

    "Don't judge me monkey" 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    The low goal total over the last 3 playoffs is disappointing, no question.

    That Washington series was brutal for all forwards,  Peverley was the top scorer, and Ference was 2nd.  Hard to put blame on Marchand alone for that series.  You call out poor goal totals against Toronto and Chicago, but fail to credit him for being a point/game player against the Rags & Pens. 

    Guy can get a little streaky, hard to argue.  That said, even with the low goal total, Marchand has only 6 fewer points than Bergeron over that 41 game period.

    I don't feel like his act is tired, certainly wasn't when they won the Cup.  If they make it back again, think he will be a big part of it.



    Crowls, you're mixing goals and assists.  I'm talking about goals.  Marchand's goal production for the last three years in the playoffs has been pretty damn sucky.  I think it's great that he's in such company for regular season stats.  Three years of garbage goal stats in the playoffs would get so many others two through the hands and one through the feet.  Why does Marchand get a pass?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Well, I'll say this. If Marchand is still a Bruin this coming season it is a big year for him. Another streaky year and playoff flop (no pun there) and then I think that is just what he is. But he's still young enough and talented enough to improve his game. My hope is he finds some consistency to his game which carries through the playoffs and maybe even refines his ratness a bit. It's an effective part of his game but like NAS said, his act is tired. Maybe he should consult with Ken Linseman the way Tim Wakefield did when he felt his knuckleball was more dipsy than doodle?


     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    The low goal total over the last 3 playoffs is disappointing, no question.

    That Washington series was brutal for all forwards,  Peverley was the top scorer, and Ference was 2nd.  Hard to put blame on Marchand alone for that series.  You call out poor goal totals against Toronto and Chicago, but fail to credit him for being a point/game player against the Rags & Pens. 

    Guy can get a little streaky, hard to argue.  That said, even with the low goal total, Marchand has only 6 fewer points than Bergeron over that 41 game period.

    I don't feel like his act is tired, certainly wasn't when they won the Cup.  If they make it back again, think he will be a big part of it.



    Crowls, you're mixing goals and assists.  I'm talking about goals.  Marchand's goal production for the last three years in the playoffs has been pretty damn sucky.  I think it's great that he's in such company for regular season stats.  Three years of garbage goal stats in the playoffs would get so many others two through the hands and one through the feet.  Why does Marchand get a pass?



    Fair, but point is 5-15-20 is a heck of a lot better than 5-2-7.  And if he was 5-2-7 in the playoffs, posters would be making hay of that as well.

    Don't think he is getting a pass, I am disappointed in his totals.  Have seen plenty others acknowledge that as well.  He needs to be better, but he's also not alone.

    Wouldn't it make sense to point to his 11 goals in 25 games during the Cup run as evidence that he doesn't shrink in the biggest moments?  Seems like you are suggesting otherwise.

    What's your solution, ship him out?  Not for me, I want him to stay and get an expanded role on the PP. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    There is only 3 players on the Bruins that back players off, because of their stick handling

    [/QUOTE]


    Of all the things that Marchand does....... this is the thing that impresses me the most with him. He is slippery, hard to contain and the Bruin who is the most allusive in one on one situations. And this isn't only exclusive to open ice. Along the boards he alludes bigger, stronger players also.





     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:


    you quit on players way too early and when thry're way too young. Thank march for the cup in 2011 , best rookie in playoffs ever. also i have not checked but how many did he get vs Pitt last year. 

    keep march too risky to trade him. dale hunter ken linseman made a career of being pests . keep march if recent history has taught us anything .... well look what happened the last time we traded a big name player



    Are you saying Marchand is young at 26?  You've been calling Eriksson old all year.  He's 28.

    ***Follow Fluto on twitter.  He's awesome.***

     

     
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