Appreciating Marchand

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from marco0863. Show marco0863's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    Think some are under-indexing the fact that he does not play on the PP.  His goal opportunities come even or on the PK. Can't bang home a PP goal to get him going or to pad his stats.

    It's easy to just lump him in with Lucic, Krejci, Bergeron, Soderberg, Smith, Iginla and Eriksson while failing to consider that as a variable. 



    That's a good point, of course.  A few extra with the extra man could make a difference.  But then it comes to the point of why.  Why isn't he on the powerplay?  Isn't that when you want your best offensive players out there?  

    Opportunities aside, he plays second line minutes and has really sucked balls for three years in a row in the post season.  Many were happy to see Seguin and his pitiful playoff performance sent packing.  How many years does Marchand get to give us subpar production before enough is enough?



    Are u happy now with loui? Great playoff producer

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from watchtower. Show watchtower's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    With Marchand I can't help but think once the playoffs started the last couple of years the coaching staff has tried to get him to stop taking penalties...Can't do that with him, he has to be a pest to be most effective. he may have had a couple of ill advised penalties but I would be willing to bet he's have a couple of big goals as well.

    He was quite the turnover machine against the habs. I think he's been exposed. He will have to work "beyond" hard (mentally and physically) to be visible in the playoffs again.




     




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to marco0863's comment:



     




    Btw. If I had to bet which player has more of a chance to come back strong in future playoffs. Between march and krejci.  I'll bet on march




     




    Why would you think that?  Krejci had been a playoff beast three times in the previous four years.  The only down year he had was 2012 when a huge pane of glass fell on his head.  Marchand had one great playoff followed by crickets for three consecutive years.  I'm not saying Marchand is done and I want him traded, but logic says Krejci should come back stronger.


     


     


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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from marco0863. Show marco0863's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:


    In response to marco0863's comment:





     






    Btw. If I had to bet which player has more of a chance to come back strong in future playoffs. Between march and krejci.  I'll bet on march






     






    Why would you think that?  Krejci had been a playoff beast three times in the previous four years.  The only down year he had was 2012 when a huge pane of glass fell on his head.  Marchand had one great playoff followed by crickets for three consecutive years.  I'm not saying Marchand is done and I want him traded, but logic says Krejci should come back stronger.


     


     


     


     


     


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    And I'm not saying krejci is done but krejci has always excelled in playoffs and to a certain extent unexpectedly so but march its expected for him to score.  Sure I would  have wanted both to flu high but I said this before others have to pick up the slack. 


    Obviously I used the word bet but in no way would I be shocked ifkrejci came out of it first. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    And I'm not saying krejci is done but krejci has always excelled in playoffs and to a certain extent unexpectedly so but march its expected for him to score.  Sure I would  have wanted both to flu high but I said this before others have to pick up the slack. 

     

     

    Obviously I used the word bet but in no way would I be shocked ifkrejci came out of it first. 



    Personally, I prefer neither get the flu.  I don't understand how that would help them be better in the playoffs.

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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Big mistake if Marchand is dealt  (unless it is for Hall)...   It would be nice if he also got some powerplay time as I think he could be just as effective as Loui or Smith.  Marchand has shown that he can get to scoring areas and bury it when 5-on-5 and he should be rewarded with some PP time.  

    I'm a huge fan of Claude but it would be nice if he mixed up the lines once in a while (not all the time) when things weren't going so well; it may prevent some of the prolonged dips in production for all of his forwards (during the playoffs) as they become (predictable and) easier for other teams to prepare for them and match lines, etc...

    Marchand's playoff streakiness has much to do with no powerplay time and Claude's unwillingness to mix it up 5-on-5---Keep in mind that he is the ONLY Bruin forward in the Top 6 with high expectations to score that doesn't play on the powerplay.    

    I don't want a bunch of Eberles or Louis on the Bruins roster; the current Oilers are a terrible model for success. Guys (like Marchand) with speed, skill, creativity that also play with an edge are hard to replace.  I'd rather have that edge. 

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    Just out of curiousity, does anyone know which Bruin has drawn the most penalties this past season? If so, is there a pattern to this over the past 4-5 years? 

    My hunch is that Marchand or Bergeron has given the Bruins the most powerplays--- And also, I do not care if they are dives or not.  

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lex44. Show Lex44's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    Just out of curiousity, does anyone know which Bruin has drawn the most penalties this past season? If so, is there a pattern to this over the past 4-5 years? 

    My hunch is that Marchand or Bergeron has given the Bruins the most powerplays--- And also, I do not care if they are dives or not.  

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.



    Loui doesn't skate fast enough for a good dive. I'm amazed Marchand never given a chance on the PP. Another crazy theory by me. Chia insists Loui gets PP times so his stats go up to justify trade. Alright come on and tell me how crazy that is!!!!!  But that's my warped mind

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    All I can say, is why doesnt CJ put Marchand on the ice with two minutes to go in the game.  Postional hockey is a key to winning. Marchand is just not that kind of player.   

    "Don't judge me monkey" 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    Just out of curiousity, does anyone know which Bruin has drawn the most penalties this past season? If so, is there a pattern to this over the past 4-5 years? 

    My hunch is that Marchand or Bergeron has given the Bruins the most powerplays--- And also, I do not care if they are dives or not.  

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.

    Note this is only when it is 5 on 5 (as it is from behindthenet.ca) and I am ignoring non-regular players.

    2013-2014: Marchand lead team with 1.1 penalties drawn per 60 minutes of play.  After him were Paille, Kelly, and Krejci. 
    2012-2013: Jagr (included time in DAL), Bourque, Bergeron, and Marchand all at 1.0.  Kelly next.

    2011-2012: Marchand and Pouliout at 1.1; Bergeron at 1.0 and Seguin at 0.9.

    2010-2011: Ryder at 1.1, Thornton (!), Marchand and Recchi at 1.0.

     

    Marchand has certainly been the most consistent, with Bergeron up there too.

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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    That is a disturbing stat DrCC, diving divas with destroy the sport like no touch NFL football.  

    "Don't judge me monkey" 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    For comparison's sake, this season's leaders were Helm, Malkin, Kadri, and Conacher - all at 2.0 penalties drawn per 60 minutes of ice time.

    Pervious seasons were worse, with the leaders at 3.0 and 2.5.  Kadri was the 3.0.  

    Whatever some of us may think about Marchand, it seems like he can't be diving that badly if he's so far behind the league leaders in penalty drawing. 

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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lex44. Show Lex44's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to DrCC's comment:

    For comparison's sake, this season's leaders were Helm, Malkin, Kadri, and Conacher - all at 2.0 penalties drawn per 60 minutes of ice time.

    Pervious seasons were worse, with the leaders at 3.0 and 2.5.  Kadri was the 3.0.  

    Whatever some of us may think about Marchand, it seems like he can't be diving that badly if he's so far behind the league leaders in penalty drawing. 

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    It certainly didn't help him in the Detroit series when he got hit in the left leg and came up holding his right. Then a few minutes later he was miraculously healed. The Refs must have been seething when they saw how he duped them after the game.  I think they made up their minds that after that game If Marchand involved in anything blow the whistle and put him in box. Sure looked that way anyways. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to DrCC's comment:

    For comparison's sake, this season's leaders were Helm, Malkin, Kadri, and Conacher - all at 2.0 penalties drawn per 60 minutes of ice time.

    Pervious seasons were worse, with the leaders at 3.0 and 2.5.  Kadri was the 3.0.  

    Whatever some of us may think about Marchand, it seems like he can't be diving that badly if he's so far behind the league leaders in penalty drawing. 

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    Nice to see some data on this, thanks DrCC. 

    Think people that don't like him overplay the "diving" card.  Does he do it?  He does, just not as often as some suggest.  So does Chara on occasion.  It's a part of his game I'd like to see him get away from, but data also suggests it's not that big of a problem.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    Big mistake if Marchand is dealt  (unless it is for Hall)...   It would be nice if he also got some powerplay time as I think he could be just as effective as Loui or Smith.  Marchand has shown that he can get to scoring areas and bury it when 5-on-5 and he should be rewarded with some PP time.  

    I'm a huge fan of Claude but it would be nice if he mixed up the lines once in a while (not all the time) when things weren't going so well; it may prevent some of the prolonged dips in production for all of his forwards (during the playoffs) as they become (predictable and) easier for other teams to prepare for them and match lines, etc...

    Marchand's playoff streakiness has much to do with no powerplay time and Claude's unwillingness to mix it up 5-on-5---Keep in mind that he is the ONLY Bruin forward in the Top 6 with high expectations to score that doesn't play on the powerplay.    

    I don't want a bunch of Eberles or Louis on the Bruins roster; the current Oilers are a terrible model for success. Guys (like Marchand) with speed, skill, creativity that also play with an edge are hard to replace.  I'd rather have that edge. 

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.



    Taylor Hall.  Okay.

    Sure, speed, skill, creativity and an edge are difficult to replace, but only when they're put together in a fashion that is successful.  Five goals in his last 41 playoff games isn't hard to replace.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Canadianfan6. Show Canadianfan6's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:What about zero goals in his last 18 playoff games and lots of stupid penalties?


    Have seen a few suggestions in post-playoff threads that the B's could improve the team by trading Marchand.  Perhaps.  A couple of ideas have been Marchand and something for Evander Kane and more recently, Marchand and something for Eberle.

     

    I am not in favor is shipping #63 anywhere, unless there is a clear upgrade.  Based on some of the comments, it was a little striking how ready folks have been to move him or move on from him.

     

    Thought it was worth checking some numbers.

     

    Only 20 players have scored 25 or more goals in each of the past three seasons (or scored 15 in the strike shortened season).  Want to guess who is one of them?

     

    Here is the list:

     

    Ovechkin, Stamkos, Perry, Kessel, Pavelski, Neal, Pacioretty, Kunitz, Seguin, Marleau, Toews, Parise, Eberle, Nash, Hossa, Vanek, St. Louis, Simmonds, Marchand and Hall.

     

    Of that group, only Simmonds averaged a lower TOI than Marchand, who has seen his ice time drop from 17:37 to 16:57 to 15:56 this past year.  His PP TOI was only 0:29 this past season, and only has 10 PPG over the past 3 seasons, lowest total on the list.  As a percentage of his goals, only 14.1% have been on the PP over the past 3 seasons.  Only other players <20% are Toews and Nash, although each has averaged over 3 minutes of PP TOI over that span.  Simmonds, for example, has seen 44.4% of his goals come on the PP.

     

    Just thought these numbers were interesting and reinforce Marchand as a very productive 5x5 and PK player, and if afforded a bigger PP role, might push 30 goals.  Furthermore, and plenty think +/- is a BS stat, but Marchand leads the group over the past 3 years @ +90 (+17 ahead of the next best player).

     

    Marchand fits the system and has delivered the goods.  Hope the B's keep him around.

     

     

     

     




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    Big mistake if Marchand is dealt  (unless it is for Hall)...   It would be nice if he also got some powerplay time as I think he could be just as effective as Loui or Smith.  Marchand has shown that he can get to scoring areas and bury it when 5-on-5 and he should be rewarded with some PP time.  

    I'm a huge fan of Claude but it would be nice if he mixed up the lines once in a while (not all the time) when things weren't going so well; it may prevent some of the prolonged dips in production for all of his forwards (during the playoffs) as they become (predictable and) easier for other teams to prepare for them and match lines, etc...

    Marchand's playoff streakiness has much to do with no powerplay time and Claude's unwillingness to mix it up 5-on-5---Keep in mind that he is the ONLY Bruin forward in the Top 6 with high expectations to score that doesn't play on the powerplay.    

    I don't want a bunch of Eberles or Louis on the Bruins roster; the current Oilers are a terrible model for success. Guys (like Marchand) with speed, skill, creativity that also play with an edge are hard to replace.  I'd rather have that edge. 

    Luc Dufour was as tough as Nails.



    Taylor Hall.  Okay.

    Sure, speed, skill, creativity and an edge are difficult to replace, but only when they're put together in a fashion that is successful.  Five goals in his last 41 playoff games isn't hard to replace.

     

    For those pure goal numbers--that is true.  Looking behind the numbers, several considerations need to be looked at...

    ---How many 5-on-5 goals or shorthanded goals were scored during that span (of 41 games) for the Bruins as a team? And who is scoring them?  I don't remember any forward being effective in the Washington series of a few years ago (7 games) or in this year's Montreal's series (another 7 games) . I'd also take a look at total points to see the true offensive effectiveness.  Another measure I would consider is quality scoring chances... A forward is completely shut-down if they don't create or get any quality chances.  I'd argue that Lucic was much more ineffective in this year's playoffs- 2 shots in last two games--  

    ---How many penalties were drawn by Marchand (since he is the best on the team this year with that) that resulted in Bruins PP (which inexplicably he is not on) goals were scored?  Conversely, how many penalties did he get that resulted in other team's goals?

    The stats show that Marchand is a more dangerous player because there is certainty there will be either a penalty against him or a penalty drawn because of him during each game (including playoffs).  Against a team like Montreal, where the PP was better than ours in the playoffs,  Marchand becomes somewhat of a detriment since Montreal's power play was lethal.  With the new playoff alignment where the chance of playing Montreal each year increases, Marchand becomes a liability if we can't shut down their Subban led powerplay.  

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    For those pure goal numbers--that is true.  Looking behind the numbers, several considerations need to be looked at...

    ---How many 5-on-5 goals or shorthanded goals were scored during that span (of 41 games) for the Bruins as a team? And who is scoring them?  I don't remember any forward being effective in the Washington series of a few years ago (7 games) or in this year's Montreal's series (another 7 games) . I'd also take a look at total points to see the true offensive effectiveness.  Another measure I would consider is quality scoring chances... A forward is completely shut-down if they don't create or get any quality chances.  I'd argue that Lucic was much more ineffective in this year's playoffs- 2 shots in last two games--  

    ---How many penalties were drawn by Marchand (since he is the best on the team this year with that) that resulted in Bruins PP (which inexplicably he is not on) goals were scored?  Conversely, how many penalties did he get that resulted in other team's goals?

    The stats show that Marchand is a more dangerous player because there is certainty there will be either a penalty against him or a penalty drawn because of him during each game (including playoffs).  Against a team like Montreal, where the PP was better than ours in the playoffs,  Marchand becomes somewhat of a detriment since Montreal's power play was lethal.  With the new playoff alignment where the chance of playing Montreal each year increases, Marchand becomes a liability if we can't shut down their Subban led powerplay.  



    Luc, with all due respect, the info you're referring to is interesting, but comes off more as "yeah, but..."

    The guy is paid to score.  It doesn't matter if the other forwards are having a hard time.  

    The guy is paid to score.  How many penalties he draws to put the B's on a powerplay is a bonus, not a hatstand.  

    The guy is paid to score.  When he barely scores at all over 41 playoffs games, something is wrong.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

      When he barely scores at all over 41 playoffs games, something is wrong.

     




    That stat is just ugly.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    It is quite interesting that Bruins fans want to get rid of Marchand.  Yet are OK with Loui Eriksson?  Loui makes $4.25 and did what exactly this year?  I understand you don't necessarily sell low, and I understand that by trading Loui, the perception would be that the Bruins lost the deal with the Stars.  Loui and Marchand both had 5 points in the playoffs.  Aren't players on the power play paid to score goals as well, Loui had 22:51 of PP time?  Marchand was +4, Loui was +1. Marchand had 17 hits, Loui had 2.  Again, why are we talking about getting rid of Marchand and nor Eriksson?

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to MeanE's comment:

     Again, why are we talking about getting rid of Marchand and nor Eriksson?

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.



    Because there might be a greater demand for Marchand?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to MeanE's comment:

    It is quite interesting that Bruins fans want to get rid of Marchand.  Yet are OK with Loui Eriksson?  Loui makes $4.25 and did what exactly this year?  I understand you don't necessarily sell low, and I understand that by trading Loui, the perception would be that the Bruins lost the deal with the Stars.  Loui and Marchand both had 5 points in the playoffs.  Aren't players on the power play paid to score goals as well, Loui had 22:51 of PP time?  Marchand was +4, Loui was +1. Marchand had 17 hits, Loui had 2.  Again, why are we talking about getting rid of Marchand and nor Eriksson?

    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.



    Get back to me when you understand (or remember!) the effect concussions have on a player's output.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    It was supposedly a bad idea to get rid of Jumbo, Phat Phil and Beer Breath.

    All last summer "SeQueen isn't going anywhere. No AUTO CUP".

    I would like to see Marchand stay. But if the package is right do it.

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    I would like to see Marchand stay. But if the package is right do it.

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin



    BINGO!!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Appreciating Marchand

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    For those pure goal numbers--that is true.  Looking behind the numbers, several considerations need to be looked at...

    ---How many 5-on-5 goals or shorthanded goals were scored during that span (of 41 games) for the Bruins as a team? And who is scoring them?  I don't remember any forward being effective in the Washington series of a few years ago (7 games) or in this year's Montreal's series (another 7 games) . I'd also take a look at total points to see the true offensive effectiveness.  Another measure I would consider is quality scoring chances... A forward is completely shut-down if they don't create or get any quality chances.  I'd argue that Lucic was much more ineffective in this year's playoffs- 2 shots in last two games--  

    ---How many penalties were drawn by Marchand (since he is the best on the team this year with that) that resulted in Bruins PP (which inexplicably he is not on) goals were scored?  Conversely, how many penalties did he get that resulted in other team's goals?

    The stats show that Marchand is a more dangerous player because there is certainty there will be either a penalty against him or a penalty drawn because of him during each game (including playoffs).  Against a team like Montreal, where the PP was better than ours in the playoffs,  Marchand becomes somewhat of a detriment since Montreal's power play was lethal.  With the new playoff alignment where the chance of playing Montreal each year increases, Marchand becomes a liability if we can't shut down their Subban led powerplay.  



    Luc, with all due respect, the info you're referring to is interesting, but comes off more as "yeah, but..."

    The guy is paid to score.  It doesn't matter if the other forwards are having a hard time.  

    The guy is paid to score.  How many penalties he draws to put the B's on a powerplay is a bonus, not a hatstand.  

    The guy is paid to score.  When he barely scores at all over 41 playoffs games, something is wrong.

     




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    If he is paid to score, then why the hell is he not on the powerplay?  Again, how many 5-on-5 goals have the other "paid scorers" on the team have in the last 41 games?  What is acceptable over 41 games?  If 10 goals is acceptable, don't you think Marchand would have that if he was on the stinking powerplay?  Does anyone even have 10 even strength goals out of the Top 6?  Why is someone with a head injury like Louie, who seemingly gets a free pass, on the powerplay?  How many assists does Marchand have in that 41 game stretch?  If you don't care about assists, then do you think Adam Oates was an effective offensive player?  So many questions....

     
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