Avery Waived

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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    NAS, I'm not saying that he'll end up like Fleury, just at this stage in his career, that's more like who he is playing like. If he pans out that way great (amazing actually) but at the same point in their careers, there's more similariy in style and results between Fleury and Marchand than there is between Marchand and either Avery or Claude Lemieux.
    Posted by red75


    red,

    I need to know why your brain thinks this way.  Tell me what BM has done differently than anyone on that list.  Especially after the year Marchand had in terms of being a punk.  I need to know. 
    Suspended- check
    Punk moves- check
    Agitator who doesnt back it up- check
    Dirty- Check

    I gotta know.  Dez, you can chime in as well.  Put him in a Montreal Jersey.  We all call out PK but what has he done differently than BM?  Please tell me.  This should be at least amusing.  Imagine if PK were a Bruin.  He would be Scott Stevens mixed with Bobby Orr. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Avery's best year ever in the playoffs was in 08' with 7 points and he once stood in front arguably the greatest goalie ever like an complete B 0 Z 0 for attention.

    A golf swing, bats to the face of a center to trying to draw a penalty and 19 points in his first NHL Stanley Cup playoffs are not comparable to Avery, they're much, much better. Sean couldn't hold Marchand's jock when it comes to hockey talent.

    I heard too many times from announcers throughout Avery's career "If Sean would just cut out the shenanigans and play hockey, he'd..." I happen to agree with this.

    Twitter is where I go to find out where a good happy hour is or if a player has been traded at the deadline. Certainly not to find out if Brad Marchand grabbed his crouch whiling dancing with a girl on a bar and I could think of allot worse that I've seen pro athletes do at a casino bar.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    Avery's best year ever in the playoffs was in 08' with 7 points and he once stood in front arguably the greatest goalie ever like an complete B 0 Z 0 for attention. A golf swing, bats to the face of a center to trying to draw a penalty and 19 points in his first NHL Stanley Cup playoffs are not comparable to Avery, they're much, much better. Sean couldn't hold Marchand's jock when it comes to hockey talent. I heard too many times from announcers throughout Avery's career "If Sean would just cut out the shenanigans and play hockey, he'd..." I happen to agree with this. Twitter is where I go to find out where a good happy hour is or if a player has been traded at the deadline. Certainly not to find out if Brad Marchand grabbed his crouch whiling dancing with a girl on a bar and I could think of allot worse that I've seen pro athletes do at a casino bar.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


     Its not based on skill level.  Its based on where you class his punk acts.  He is a punk.  He is a skilled player.  But he is still a rat.  Why is he all of a sudden Theo Fleury and as tough as Bob Probert. 
    People on here are so quick to call Downie, PK and etc etc punks.  PK on skill is twice the player Brad is.  Can't wait to hear people be honest about that.  Downie is also extremely skilled and definitely dances with just about anyone.  He also is a seek and destroy missle looking to hurt people. 

    I never argued that BM was skilled.  He is extremely skilled.  But he is also a punk and dirty player.  Again, if he wore a different enemy jersey it would be a different song in here. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    NAS, I'm not saying that he'll end up like Fleury, just at this stage in his career, that's more like who he is playing like. If he pans out that way great (amazing actually) but at the same point in their careers, there's more similariy in style and results between Fleury and Marchand than there is between Marchand and either Avery or Claude Lemieux.
    Posted by red75


    First full season for Fleury:  36th in goals, 72nd in points

    Marchand:  90th in goals, 163 in points

    Marchand and Fleury are similar in relative height and possibly in pot stirrer status, but let's not pretend they are similar in anything else.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : red, I need to know why your brain thinks this way.  Tell me what BM has done differently than anyone on that list.  Especially after the year Marchand had in terms of being a punk.  I need to know.  Suspended- check Punk moves- check Agitator who doesnt back it up- check Dirty- Check I gotta know.  Dez, you can chime in as well.  Put him in a Montreal Jersey.  We all call out PK but what has he done differently than BM?  Please tell me.  This should be at least amusing.  Imagine if PK were a Bruin.  He would be Scott Stevens mixed with Bobby Orr. 
    Posted by shuperman


    Ok, sid by side comparison
    First full season
    Fleury -80gp 31-35-66-157 (in the mid-80's)
    Marchand - 77gp 21-20-41-51
    Lemieux - 76gp 27-26-53 143
    Avery (never had a full season until his third year in the league) 76gp 9-19-28-261

    First playoffs
    Fleury 22gp 5-6-11-24 and a Stanley Cup
    Marchand 25gp 11-8-19-40 and a Stanley Cup
    Lemieux  20gp 10-6-16-68 and a Stanley Cup
    Avery (never made the playoffs until after 7 years as an NHLer) 10 gp 1-4-5-27 and has yet to win a Stanley Cup

    Based on those numbers I can see the Lemieux comparison is valid as well, but at this point in his career, looking at all four at the same time, I don't see how the Avery comparison is all that valid, and that the Fleury and Lemieux comparisons are more accurate.
    He doesn't have the offensive punch quite that those two guys had (though e had a better playoffs over a few more games), but otherwise it's close. And his numbers and success at this stage in his career is absolutely nothing like Avery's. He also does not, to this point cross the line as much as any of those players (the fewest regular season PIM by over 90)
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : First full season for Fleury:  36th in goals, 72nd in points Marchand:  90th in goals, 163 in points Marchand and Fleury are similar in relative height and possibly in pot stirrer status, but let's not pretend they are similar in anything else.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Wrong NAS, if marchand keeps it up, he'll be sitting next to him at AA meetings...Marchand is good folks, Fleury has more talent in his urine sample than him though.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived :  Its not based on skill level.  Its based on where you class his punk acts.  He is a punk.  He is a skilled player.  But he is still a rat.   But he is also a punk and dirty player. Posted by shuperman


    When has Marchand ever said something like what Avery said about his ex-girlfriend, then get suspended ? When has Brad ever been suspended for waiving his stick in front of a goalies view to obstruct him from viewing the play, then get suspended ?

    There is no comparison between the two players whatsoever.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : When has Marchand ever said something like what Avery said about his ex-girlfriend, then get suspended ? When has Brad ever been suspended for waiving his stick in front of a goalies view to obstruct him from viewing the play, then get suspended ? There is no comparison between the two players whatsoever.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    I know, Marchand was exchanging cookie recipes with Gazoo Twin.  You call that classy?  Swinging a golf club?  Classy right.  Head shot suspended.  Line crossing hits all season.  Spearing people in the no-zone. Pretty impressive year one.  Pretty sure Avery didnt do this in year one. 

    Thats one year folks.  A sample size of Marchand.  You think it won't multiply this year?  He all of a sudden turned a new leaf?  Really?  So if he keeps doing his Junior hockey antics its ok in here?  If he gets another head shot suspension, says a bunch of crap to the media its all ok. 

    His po op really doesnt stink.  He is actually the victim in all this. 

    Skilled yes.  Idiot yes.  Tough hardly.  Gritty yes.  Backs it up When?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Callo likes him and calls a spade a spade.  A punk is a punk.  Just b/c he adds some skill doesnt mean he is above the others.  Claude L?  I highly doubt he will be that good.  Fleury? Laughable. Avery? More pure skill but Avery is a good player and much better fighter.  Its not like I am defending avery.  I cant stand him.  Ott- not near as tough.  Ott is a skilled guy as well.  Downie- not as dangerous or as good a fighter. 

    My hope is he learns to respect the game.  I don't think he does.  If he has to play like that to fire himself up I will never cheer for him in a Bruins uni.  If it is a young thing where he is taken aside and told to smarten up fine.  His ego throughout his life has proven he is a spoiled brat.  Its followed him to the NHL. 
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Dez, Why are you making him a tough guy?  You think BM is any different then any other punk that does everything avery does and skates away.  Marchand has one fight.  I think my case is presented pretty clearly.  You think Marchand would fight PK Subban?  Do you?  Do you think he would fight any other pest like Avery/Ott or any of those types.  Eventually those guys have to drop the gloves.  They all pick their spots but have fought.  For as much as I hate Cooke he did take a pounding by Thorton and skaked away.  Avery has fought good fighters and so has Ott.  So what does that tell me.  They answer the bell.  So until then BM is just a punk that doesnt back anything up.  Would Marchand fight Fedorek this year?  I keep repeating my same stance b/c people actually think BM is some hard nosed tough guy.  News Flash.  HE HAS NEVER BEEN! So I will counter.  Prove to me that he is.  Right now he is a dirty, cheap punk.  Who has skill.  I literally laugh that people think b/c he is a Bruin player that he is tough.  No he isnt.  He is no different then Avery.  And for Avery tapping TT on the head with his stick.  How is that different then speed bagging a Gazoo.  Its not.  Its just one is a Bruin and one isnt.   
    Posted by shuperman

    Shupe, nowhere, at any time have I tried to portray Marchand as being a tough guy. I've no need to counter with proof of anything. I simply pointed out that you constantly make reference to Marchand not backing it up yet you don't provide any concrete examples to back those claims. As far as fighting Fedoryk and the likes, why would he and how does that relate to this debate? Until he does something to anger Fedoryk enough to fight and then backs down, how is it relevent? Seriously, for as dirty as you like to portray Marchand to be, why isn't he being challenged to fight every shift( ala Avery)?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

                                          GP     G    A      P     PIM
    2002-2003     Red Wings     39     5     6     11    120
    2002-2003     Kings            12     1     3      4     33

    Yah Sean did this and too bad there wasn't twitter back then...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Shupe, nowhere, at any time have I tried to portray Marchand as being a tough guy. I've no need to counter with proof of anything. I simply pointed out that you constantly make reference to Marchand not backing it up yey you don't provide any concrete examples to back those claims. As far as fighting Fedoryk and the likes, why would he and how does that relate to this debate? Until he does something to anger Fedoryk enough to fight and then backs down, how is it relevent? Seriously, for as dirty as you like to portray Marchand to be, why isn't he being challenged to fight every shift( ala Avery)?
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Wait Dez,

    I am bringing the point up b/c every fan of his says he is different b/c he backs it up.  How do you know he isnt challenged.  I am pretty sure there have been times during the year where he could have dropped them.  When he ran Wiz in on the icing I didnt see him dropping the gloves.  He starts lots but seldom is around to answer the so called bell.  And the reason I keep saying one career fight is b/c people in here actually believe he backs his game up.
    My Fedoryk example is b/c of the Gazoo speed bag.  You usually don't do that and not have to answer.  Which was my pt on Wayne and Steve.  Sure they may have had a face wash but it didnt last very long.  

    He doesnt respect the game and that dates back to his minor hockey days.  I mean I know his Midget AAA coach.  Skill but a brutal ego.  He isnt bigger than
    He does the exact same stuff that all the players I can't stand do.  And he is off to a flying start.

    I realize you like him and I am not saying people shouldnt.  But when PK skates away from Lucic and then calls him a kitty remember BM.  PK is more valuable than any Bruin not named Chara.  He played more minutes than anyone in the 1st round.  But he is a yellow coward.  he hides, he ducks, he dives he is dirty, he is a rat.  Brad does all of this as well.  He just wears a Bruin jersey. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
                                          GP     G    A      P     PIM 2002-2003     Red Wings     39     5     6     11    120 2002-2003     Kings            12     1     3      4     33 Yah Sean did this and too bad there wasn't twitter back then...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Does he have a stanley cup ring?  Bet he does
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
                                          GP     G    A      P     PIM 2002-2003     Red Wings     39     5     6     11    120 2002-2003     Kings            12     1     3      4     33 Yah Sean did this and too bad there wasn't twitter back then...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Once again you are basing this on skill.  Do you not get it?  He could score 50 and he still would be a punk.  Skill isnt what this part of the debate is. 

    I will be looking fwd to your remarks about guys like Downie, PK etc etc.  Not an Avery fan.  Not a BM fan.  Not saying you dont have to like him. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    "playing 36 games with the Red Wings. The Red Wings went on to win the Stanley Cup that season, but Avery did not play in the playoffs nor did he play the required 40 games to get his name engraved on the Cup.."

    Still a punk...
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    "playing 36 games with the Red Wings. The Red Wings went on to win the Stanley Cup that season, but Avery did not play in the playoffs nor did he play the required 40 games to get his name engraved on the Cup.." Still a punk...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    I already read that.  Same thing could have been said of Savy. 

    Wanna bet Avery didnt get a cup ring?  Did Kampfer or Hnidy get a ring?  Bet avery has one.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived :  I think the Avery and Marchand are very good when you compare them.  Both skill, both are punks, both decent players, both are head cases. Posted by shuperman


    Oh I thought you brought that up...you're funny Shup, Thanks Tongue Out
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Oh I thought you brought that up...you're funny Shup, Thanks
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Its gonna be a great year San. Looking fwd to all our positive vibes. 
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaN01VLYSQ&ob=av2e

                           Shup, Shup, Shup a doop!!!
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaN01VLYSQ&ob=av2e                        Shup, Shup, Shup a doop!!!
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    haha.  i used to dominate to this song back in the day with my blonde hockey hair, tight pin-stripped jeans and cowboy boots.  What was I thinking.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Ladies, ladies, ladies. I didn't say he did redefine, I said he just might be redefining. As in he might be making the rat a little different from those before him. As in... I will continue to watch his career before deeming him the greatest rat of all time. I will give the kid this though. He's a winner. And above all he is my favorite Bruins muhahaha
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : haha.  i used to dominate to this song back in the day with my blonde hockey hair, tight pin-stripped jeans and cowboy boots.  What was I thinking.Posted by shuperman


    Sure that wasn't too Shania Twain ?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Wait Dez, I am bringing the point up b/c every fan of his says he is different b/c he backs it up.  How do you know he isnt challenged.  I am pretty sure there have been times during the year where he could have dropped them.  When he ran Wiz in on the icing I didnt see him dropping the gloves.  He starts lots but seldom is around to answer the so called bell.  And the reason I keep saying one career fight is b/c people in here actually believe he backs his game up. My Fedoryk example is b/c of the Gazoo speed bag.  You usually don't do that and not have to answer.  Which was my pt on Wayne and Steve.  Sure they may have had a face wash but it didnt last very long.   He doesnt respect the game and that dates back to his minor hockey days.  I mean I know his Midget AAA coach.  Skill but a brutal ego.  He isnt bigger than He does the exact same stuff that all the players I can't stand do.  And he is off to a flying start. I realize you like him and I am not saying people shouldnt.  But when PK skates away from Lucic and then calls him a kitty remember BM.  PK is more valuable than any Bruin not named Chara.  He played more minutes than anyone in the 1st round.  But he is a yellow coward.  he hides, he ducks, he dives he is dirty, he is a rat.  Brad does all of this as well.  He just wears a Bruin jersey. 
    Posted by shuperman

    So now you're "pretty sure" he walks away when challenged. I only missed 2 games last year and I honestly don't remember seeing him challenged for something and back down. Subban, on the other hand, I can name 8 different times I saw him openly challenged to a fight and back down/turtle. I've got evidence backing up my side of the debate. You've just got open disdain for Marchand on your side. I'm now starting to picture this like Walking Tall. Don't tell me the Marchand's and their evil cronies had you beaten up outside the Halifax casino because you wouldn't bend to their will ( and say that Brad is awesome).
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : So now you're "pretty sure" he walks away when challenged. I only missed 2 games last year and I honestly don't remember seeing him challenged for something and back down. Subban, on the other hand, I can name 8 different times I saw him openly challenged to a fight and back down/turtle. I've got evidence backing up my side of the debate. You've just got open disdain for Marchand on your side. I'm now starting to picture this like Walking Tall. Don't tell me the Marchand's and their evil cronies had you beaten up outside the Halifax casino because you wouldn't bend to their will ( and say that Brad is awesome).
    Posted by dezaruchi

    Did he Rock Bottom Marchand though? That's the real question.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    In Response to Re: Avery Waived : So now you're "pretty sure" he walks away when challenged. I only missed 2 games last year and I honestly don't remember seeing him challenged for something and back down. Subban, on the other hand, I can name 8 different times I saw him openly challenged to a fight and back down/turtle. I've got evidence backing up my side of the debate. You've just got open disdain for Marchand on your side. I'm now starting to picture this like Walking Tall. Don't tell me the Marchand's and their evil cronies had you beaten up outside the Halifax casino because you wouldn't bend to their will ( and say that Brad is awesome).
    Posted by dezaruchi


    I just named one against the Habs.  You watch what you wanna see.  He had Thornton riding shotgun for half the year and plays on the best fighting team in hockey.  You think he does this with no backup.  Thats the true sign of a coward.  I find it comical that you believe he is not in that mix.  The Bruins Glasses are on too tight Dez.  He has always been a classless person.  In his entire life.  Not just with the Bruins.  His hockey career is littered with this type of behavior.  
    Again, cheer for him all you want.  But when PK and downie do it dont complain about it.  PK is ten times more valuable to Montreal than BM is.  And why would PK fight Lucic or Horton.  Its a bad trade off and he would lose.  

    And I know you have played and are smart.  You really believe that guys havent challenged him.  How many times did he line up against someone last year Dez.  Did they focus on every time he was on.  Isnt that where the invites normally come or from bench to bench.  Staged fights are for Thornton.  I know what incidents you are talking about with PK.  But he had 3 more fights than Chara did last year.  I know, no one will fight him.  But he was hiding against Downie.  
    ;)

      I'm 39 Dez.  I forgot more about the bars downtown than he knows. 
     
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