Awards- Hart

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Awards- Hart

    For the next 5 days or so I'd like to bring up who we think should win these awards & go by the actual meaning of the award. Not the way it's been given. Please be objective & not pick all Bruins. Please try to be serious & not pick "Mr. Universe" for the Vezina. I will also put the definition of each award in bold to help those who may need it.Also please only type one name. Don't steal someone elses thunder. I know we all have 3 or 4 in our heads, but just pick one & stick with it. So, lets have some debate & please include your reasoning as to why you think your pick should win. OK today is the

    Hart Trophy:  is awarded annually to the "player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL)

    My pick is John Traverse of the Islanders. This guy has improved every season & even though he's a -3. I think that without him the Islanders would be in a heap of trouble as far as finding the back of the net. I like Matt Moulson, but Traverse makes Moulson like Gretzky did Nichols. 

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Or not.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Well its Tavares, but yes he is a very good player. But being an overall negative is not a good indication of helping your team in my opinion. Means you care too much about scoring and not enough about defense.

     
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    Re: Awards- Hart

    I hope for Tavares but I am expecting Ovechkin.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    I hope for Tavares but I am expecting Ovechkin.




    Same here

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    Well its Tavares, but yes he is a very good player. But being an overall negative is not a good indication of helping your team in my opinion. Means you care too much about scoring and not enough about defense.



    I'd agree with you if he was a -15. But at a - 3 I don't think it's that big a deal. 

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    For the next 5 days or so I'd like to bring up who we think should win these awards & go by the actual meaning of the award. Not the way it's been given. Please be objective & not pick all Bruins. Please try to be serious & not pick "Mr. Universe" for the Vezina. I will also put the definition of each award in bold to help those who may need it.Also please only type one name. Don't steal someone elses thunder. I know we all have 3 or 4 in our heads, but just pick one & stick with it. So, lets have some debate & please include your reasoning as to why you think your pick should win. OK today is the

    Hart Trophy:  is awarded annually to the "player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL)

    My pick is John Traverse of the Islanders. This guy has improved every season & even though he's a -3. I think that without him the Islanders would be in a heap of trouble as far as finding the back of the net. I like Matt Moulson, but Traverse makes Moulson like Gretzky did Nichols. 




    Player judged most valuable to his team:

    Sergei Bobrovsky and/or John Tavares

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    For the next 5 days or so I'd like to bring up who we think should win these awards & go by the actual meaning of the award. Not the way it's been given. Please be objective & not pick all Bruins. Please try to be serious & not pick "Mr. Universe" for the Vezina. I will also put the definition of each award in bold to help those who may need it.Also please only type one name. Don't steal someone elses thunder. I know we all have 3 or 4 in our heads, but just pick one & stick with it. So, lets have some debate & please include your reasoning as to why you think your pick should win. OK today is the

    Hart Trophy:  is awarded annually to the "player judged most valuable to his team" in the National Hockey League (NHL)

    My pick is John Traverse of the Islanders. This guy has improved every season & even though he's a -3. I think that without him the Islanders would be in a heap of trouble as far as finding the back of the net. I like Matt Moulson, but Traverse makes Moulson like Gretzky did Nichols. 

     




    Player judged most valuable to his team:

     

    Sergei Bobrovsky and/or John Tavares



    I wouldn't complain to see Bob win it Kel. Maybe we'll have a co-winner. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Kicking this to the top after seeing the Selke conversation.  Toews came up there as a guy who could take the Selke ahead of Bergeron, and you know, that's entirely possible.  But I'd make Toews my pick for the Hart.

    He's 10th in scoring in the league, but if you subtract PPG, he's the league leader in goals with 18 ESG and 2 short-handed goals.  He's tied for second overall in +/- (for whatever that's worth), and he's tied with Datsyuk - thief of thieves - for take-aways.  3rd in faceoffs won, 2nd to Bergeron in percentage.  2nd in shootout goals.  Plays over 1:30 in PK and 2:42 in PP TOI per game.  And he's the captain and undisputed leader of the best team in hockey with a bullet.  The could conceivably finish as much as 9 points up on the Penguins despite playing in front of the sometimes shaky Joey Crawford and the oft-injured and wacky Ray Emery.

    Crosby has more points, and you can't undervalue his points per game and the difference between his linemates and Toews's.  Goals are comparable if you project for the injury, and with a similar non-PPG lens.  +/- in the same ballpark.  Crosby only plays about half the PK TOI Toews does, and twice the PP TOI.  His FO% and Shooting % are both significantly lower, and where Toews has three times as many takeaways as giveaways, Crosby has nearly twice as many giveaways as takeaways.  And he will have missed about 30% of the season.

    Ovechkin has more goals but more than half of his 31 are on the PP and his shooting % is lower than Toews or Crosby.  He doesn't kill penalties and he doesn't take faceoffs.  The one thing he does better than the other two is hit - a lot more.  To channel Buddy Ryan, all he does is score goals.

    If these are my finalists (no disrespect to Tavares), Toews has brought more to the table night in and night out in more facets of the game and done more to help his team win than any other player.  Hart.  And not to repeat the debate I had with dez, but I take most valuable to be only partially dependent on team fortunes - maybe the Isles or Caps don't make the playoffs without Tavares and Ovechkin, or Columbus doesn't flirt with a playoff bid without Bob, but Chicago doesn't post the fourth best records in NHL history (82.3% of available points) without Toews.  4th best season ever behind the '29-'30 Bruins, the '43-'44 Shabs, and the '76-'77 Shabs.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    No argument from me if Toews wins any award but the Vezina. He does so many things at such a high level. Reminds me a lot of Sakic and Yzerman.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Trottier and Messier, I think - not that anyone should be offended to be compared to Sakic and Yzerman.  Trottier was such a complete player.  People forget what a great scorer he was because he played with Bossy, but Trottier had a 50 goal season, four 40+ goal seasons, and 4 30+ goal seasons on the way to 524 goals.  In their Cup seasons, he had three straight playoffs of identical point totals: 29, 29, 29, 29.  He was better than +70 three times.  Toews isn't the physical player Messier was, but I can't think of another player in the game who I think is as likely to do the Messier-style "get on my back, boys, we're taking this one home" than Toews.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Trottier and Messier, I think - not that anyone should be offended to be compared to Sakic and Yzerman.  Trottier was such a complete player.  People forget what a great scorer he was because he played with Bossy, but Trottier had a 50 goal season, four 40+ goal seasons, and 4 30+ goal seasons on the way to 524 goals.  In their Cup seasons, he had three straight playoffs of identical point totals: 29, 29, 29, 29.  He was better than +70 three times.  Toews isn't the physical player Messier was, but I can't think of another player in the game who I think is as likely to do the Messier-style "get on my back, boys, we're taking this one home" than Toews.




    Excellent Book. Toews is my favorite non-Bruin. I think this guy has developed into the best all-around player in the league. I would love to see him win the Hart, but I think it wll go to Ovechkin.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Agreed Book, Toews should win it---he has a better all-around game than Crosby and Ovechkin.  His point production is in the ballpark with those guys, and above all, his team is having a record breaking season.  I have a feeling however, that the media/voting committee will not look at all of the peripheries that you mentioned in your awesome post, and instead be more sucked into the media attention/goal scoring/point producing aspects the other 2 have over him. 

    I have Tavares 5th after Bobrowski.  Not that I love the stat but Tavares +/- is hard to overlook.  If he is that good shouldn't his team be able to score more goals than the other team when he is on the ice at even strength?  Again, I hate the stat in general, but I was quite surprised to see he was a "-" for him due to his high talent/skill level. 

     
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    Re: Awards- Hart

    Toews is so good and he's almost quietly good. No flash, just terrific all around play. Would say the same thing about Tavares.

    No argument from me if either win it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    Agreed Book, Toews should win it---he has a better all-around game than Crosby



    Sorry, no he doesn't. Crosby is by far and away the best player in the league. Any amount of defense that Toews plays cannot make-up for how inferior he is to Crosby at the other end. It is no contest in my opinion, you are witnessing the best player of our generation and those types of players win MVP awards.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

                                 "Player judged most valuable to his team"

     

    I know Ovechkin was a big part of the win streak that propeled the Caps into 3rd place but I just think Tavares is much more unstoppable when he is on the ice. Plus Tavares is a better playmaker on his own, Ovechkin needs Backstrom to be good.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

     Ovechkin needs Backstrom to be good.




    I think that's seriously unfair. Ovechkin has always been known as a ball-hog.. he gets the puck in the neutral zone and takes it him self to the net. He generates a ton of shots individually off the rush. 

     

    It might be fair to say that Tavares doesn't have another player of Backtrom's calibur on his line, but come on now.... I have a hard time thinking of a player in the NHL that makes more outstanding individual efforts than Alexander Ovechkin.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Grabner, Moulson and Boyes have been Tavares's linemates throught the season. All real good players, we'll leave Boyes out, but they are not the caliber of Backstrom.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    I think it's the other way around, Backstrom needs Ovechkin to be good. It's never really mattered who Ovechkin has played with, never really had a center. He likes to be the one carrying it in the zone and generate his own chances.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    Well its Tavares, but yes he is a very good player. But being an overall negative is not a good indication of helping your team in my opinion. Means you care too much about scoring and not enough about defense.




    Patrice Bergeron 2006-07 70 points, -28

    I wish that guy cared about defense.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

                                 "Player judged most valuable to his team"

     

    I know Ovechkin was a big part of the win streak that propeled the Caps into 3rd place but I just think Tavares is much more unstoppable when he is on the ice. Plus Tavares is a better playmaker on his own, Ovechkin needs Backstrom to be good.




    Ovechkin had 98 goals and 100 assists in the two seasons before Backstrom entered the league.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Awards- Hart

    Are we talking about the 2008 or 2009 Hart trophy ?

    No reason for me to care about what Ovechkin did years ago when talking about this years Hart trophy.

    @Kelv Backstrom ended up with the 3rd most assists in the league this year. He didn't have zero assists when Ovechkin was slumping.

     

     

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