Awards- Norris

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    Hard not pick either Subban or Suter for the Norris this year.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    If I was starting a team my top 5 D would be. 1. Chara 2. Karlesson 3. Weber 4. Subban (If he'd stop being a punk he'd be right behind Chara. 5. Suter




    Letang is better than Subban too. If Subban is even considered then he should eventually lose out to Letang, who had the better offensive season.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    If I was starting a team my top 5 D would be. 1. Chara 2. Karlesson 3. Weber 4. Subban (If he'd stop being a punk he'd be right behind Chara. 5. Suter

     




    Letang is better than Subban too. If Subban is even considered then he should eventually lose out to Letang, who had the better offensive season.

     




    I don't know about that one Dez. Letang has one power play goal compred to Subbans 7. Subban has 6 more goals overall than him as well, and only 4 less assists. Subban also has 30 more shots on net.

    I know Letang has played seven less games, but lets not forget P.K didn't even have the abbreviated training camp and came into a new coaches system.

    Both good, but I'd take Subban over Letang, both ends of the ice as I feel Subban is the more physical player.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    Kel, I'm not one to put that much value on PP goals when discussing the Norris and as far as Subban being a physical D-man, I'm not sure where people are getting this. For some reason, people are thinking that the way he hit Marchand 2 years ago is a common thing but it's not. He's made 47 hits in 41 games. That doesn't make the top 100 in the Nhl. Letang actually made 43 hits in 34 games. It should be Letang ahead of Subban without question if Letang manages to pass his in points tonight.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:




    Letang is better than Subban too. If Subban is even considered then he should eventually lose out to Letang, who had the better offensive season.

     



    Before going with points, I'd like to see how many of Letang's assists are secondaries.  Playing with Crosby and/or Malkin is an easy way to ratchet up assists.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:




    Letang is better than Subban too. If Subban is even considered then he should eventually lose out to Letang, who had the better offensive season.

     

     

     



    Before going with points, I'd like to see how many of Letang's assists are secondaries.  Playing with Crosby and/or Malkin is an easy way to ratchet up assists.

     

     




    European style?  I don't differentiate between 1st and 2nd assists without having seen the play. The 2nd assist is often the key play on a goal, especially coming from a D-man starting the rush.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    European style?  I don't differentiate between 1st and 2nd assists without having seen the play. The 2nd assist is often the key play on a goal, especially coming from a D-man starting the rush.



    It's really to each their own on this one.  One might see Letang pass it in the defensive zone to Niskanen, Niskanen pass to Sutter in the neutral zone, Sutter rush up the ice and rip a nice shot for a goal from the circle and feel that Letang was a major factor because he made that pass initially.  Others may argue that Letang's pass couls have been made by anyene, and while he does deserve the secondary assist based on the rulebook, he really wasn't much of a factor at all.

     

    I can see both sides, but lean towards the latter.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     


    European style?  I don't differentiate between 1st and 2nd assists without having seen the play. The 2nd assist is often the key play on a goal, especially coming from a D-man starting the rush.

     



    It's really to each their own on this one.  One might see Letang pass it in the defensive zone to Niskanen, Niskanen pass to Sutter in the neutral zone, Sutter rush up the ice and rip a nice shot for a goal from the circle and feel that Letang was a major factor because he made that pass initially.  Others may argue that Letang's pass couls have been made by anyene, and while he does deserve the secondary assist based on the rulebook, he really wasn't much of a factor at all.

     

     

    I can see both sides, but lean towards the latter.




    I concur.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    I like Letang allot but Karlsson is better in his own end. Too Books point about Subban and his theatrics, Suter gets the nod. Subban will probably pick up 3 Norris awards before he hangs them up. Karlsson will probably pick up 6 Norris trophies before he is done, he is that good.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    Ryan Suter feels over-rated to me. He has high minutes and points, but his 5v5 corsi is brutal (-3, 5th worst on his team) it's also the worst on his team on the penalty kill too (TOI 2 min/60, -75)

    wheras P.K. Subban is 8th in the whole league (+15) 5v5, best on his team 4v5 (-66).

    power play numbers are also hugely in favor of P.K. even though he produces less shots, he's tripled suter on points.

    Only argument against PK is his PIMs are too high (again), he shouldn't be putting his team down a man as much as he has been.

     

    I wonder if someone wanted to make an argument for Ryan Suter, what would be the one statistic they would look @ that put him above the other contestants? 

    If you can't find one, then I think you're biased.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

    I wonder if someone wanted to make an argument for Ryan Suter, what would be the one statistic they would look @ that put him above the other contestants? 

    If you can't find one, then I think you're biased.



    I guess someone would have to *gasp* watch the games.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    I like Letang allot but Karlsson is better in his own end. Too Books point about Subban and his theatrics, Suter gets the nod. Subban will probably pick up 3 Norris awards before he hangs them up. Karlsson will probably pick up 6 Norris trophies before he is done, he is that good.




    Six Norris Trophies?  Bourque won five.  Of course, a lot of it has to do with who else is playing and hot at the time. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

     

    Ryan Suter feels over-rated to me. He has high minutes and points, but his 5v5 corsi is brutal (-3, 5th worst on his team) it's also the worst on his team on the penalty kill too (TOI 2 min/60, -75)

    wheras P.K. Subban is 8th in the whole league (+15) 5v5, best on his team 4v5 (-66).

    power play numbers are also hugely in favor of P.K. even though he produces less shots, he's tripled suter on points.

    Only argument against PK is his PIMs are too high (again), he shouldn't be putting his team down a man as much as he has been.

     

    I wonder if someone wanted to make an argument for Ryan Suter, what would be the one statistic they would look @ that put him above the other contestants? 

    If you can't find one, then I think you're biased.

     



    I watch the games & Suter isn't a PAB & he doesn't get to play with Malkin & Crosby! Love Parise & Koivu's game, but the talent isn't even a fair comparison.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     


    I watch the games & Suter isn't a PAB & he doesn't get to play with Malkin & Crosby! Love Parise & Koivu's game, but the talent isn't even a fair comparison.

     



    I could of sworn I was talking about P.K. Subban.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to red75's comment:

    Hard not pick either Subban or Suter for the Norris this year.



    It's easy for me to NOT pick Subban. He doesn't deserve it Red! Just as you thought how it was a travestry to have Cook mentioned for the Masterton. I feel Subban can be named as a finalist, but I think it'll be a travestry to award this PAB anything with his antics that he still pulls. It's a mockery to this award considering all who have won it in the past. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

     

    Hard not pick either Subban or Suter for the Norris this year.

     



    It's easy for me to NOT pick Subban. He doesn't deserve it Red! Just as you thought how it was a travestry to have Cook mentioned for the Masterton. I feel Subban can be named as a finalist, but I think it'll be a travestry to award this PAB anything with his antics that he still pulls. It's a mockery to this award considering all who have won it in the past. 

     



    It isn't fair to mention Subban in the same breath as Cooke. This is homerism/hate of red jerseys.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

     

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    In response to red75's comment:

     

    Hard not pick either Subban or Suter for the Norris this year.

     



    It's easy for me to NOT pick Subban. He doesn't deserve it Red! Just as you thought how it was a travestry to have Cook mentioned for the Masterton. I feel Subban can be named as a finalist, but I think it'll be a travestry to award this PAB anything with his antics that he still pulls. It's a mockery to this award considering all who have won it in the past. 

     

     



    It isn't fair to mention Subban in the same breath as Cooke. This is homerism/hate of red jerseys.

     

     



    Not at all Ols. I've said NUMEROUS times in this forum that PK Subban is one of my favourite players to watch. And said he will a Norris or 3 & be nomimated for many more. When he plays hockey the right way. I love his skill set! So, unitl you have a clue what you're talking about shut your cake hole! 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

     

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    In response to red75's comment:

     

    Hard not pick either Subban or Suter for the Norris this year.

     



    It's easy for me to NOT pick Subban. He doesn't deserve it Red! Just as you thought how it was a travestry to have Cook mentioned for the Masterton. I feel Subban can be named as a finalist, but I think it'll be a travestry to award this PAB anything with his antics that he still pulls. It's a mockery to this award considering all who have won it in the past. 

     

     



    It isn't fair to mention Subban in the same breath as Cooke. This is homerism/hate of red jerseys.

     

     



    Not at all Ols. I've said NUMEROUS times in this forum that PK Subban is one of my favourite players to watch. When he plays hockey the right way! So, unitl you have a clue what you're talking about shut your cake hole! 

     



    lol, o.k. pal.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

    Ryan Suter feels over-rated to me. He has high minutes and points, but his 5v5 corsi is brutal (-3, 5th worst on his team) it's also the worst on his team on the penalty kill too (TOI 2 min/60, -75)

    wheras P.K. Subban is 8th in the whole league (+15) 5v5, best on his team 4v5 (-66).

    power play numbers are also hugely in favor of P.K. even though he produces less shots, he's tripled suter on points.

    Only argument against PK is his PIMs are too high (again), he shouldn't be putting his team down a man as much as he has been.

     

    I wonder if someone wanted to make an argument for Ryan Suter, what would be the one statistic they would look @ that put him above the other contestants? 

    If you can't find one, then I think you're biased.



    There's nothing wrong with being above average in all aspects.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    There's nothing wrong with being above average in all aspects.

     



    No, there's nothing wrong with it.I just don't think it's an award for average in all aspects. It's the same argument i use against Toews for the MVP... You really have to be hands down the best at something to win, and Suter isn't one of those guys. There's never a situation where I would say, given the option of all other NHL players "You know who I want to see right now on the Ice? Ryan Suter. There's always a better player for whatever situation you find yourself in.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    There's nothing wrong with being above average in all aspects.

     

     



    No, there's nothing wrong with it.I just don't think it's an award for average in all aspects. It's the same argument i use against Toews for the MVP... You really have to be hands down the best at something to win, and Suter isn't one of those guys. There's never a situation where I would say, given the option of all other NHL players "You know who I want to see right now on the Ice? Ryan Suter. There's always a better player for whatever situation you find yourself in.

     

     




    Suter leads the entire league in ice time. He's the first guy the coach wants on in every situation. Subban might be great on the PP but he watches PK's from the bench. He's got 12 points at even strength. I want the best D-man to excel in his own end. I'm not looking for a guy who's adequate defensively.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    Suter leads the entire league in ice time. He's the first guy the coach wants on in every situation. Subban might be great on the PP but he watches PK's from the bench. He's got 12 points at even strength. I want the best D-man to excel in his own end. I'm not looking for a guy who's adequate defensively.



    It's sort of hard to use TOI as a this-one over that-one when they are on different teams.  Therrien's use of Markov is questioned by a lot of people in the league.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    Not "in the leauge" as if I talk to a lot of execs.  I should have written "around the league", referring to talking heads and others.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to Olsonic's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    There's nothing wrong with being above average in all aspects.

     

     



    No, there's nothing wrong with it.I just don't think it's an award for average in all aspects. It's the same argument i use against Toews for the MVP... You really have to be hands down the best at something to win, and Suter isn't one of those guys. There's never a situation where I would say, given the option of all other NHL players "You know who I want to see right now on the Ice? Ryan Suter. There's always a better player for whatever situation you find yourself in.

     

     



    I get you have a bromance for Crosby & he certainly is a legit superstar in his talents. But, as the description says for the Hart. Most valuable to his team. The Pens won a ton of games without Crosby, without another superstar in Malkin, without Neal, without Letang all out of the lineup at one time. They won 7 in a row without them. So, what does that say about the Pens? If you took Tarves away from the Islanders what do you think would happen to them. What do you think would happen to Chicago without Toews? That's not what you're looking at here Ols. Doesn't matter how much skill the individual has over another top ranking player in the league. I think Crosby is the best the hockey player on the planet. No disputing that for me, but that's not what the description of the award is. Which is why I think they need to change the meaning of the award if they're to continue to jsut award it to the most talented in the league overall. Which is what the Pearson award is. So, 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Awards- Norris

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    I get you have a bromance for Crosby & he certainly is a legit superstar in his talents. But, as the description says for the Hart. Most valuable to his team. The Pens won a ton of games without Crosby, without another superstar in Malkin, without Neal, without Letang all out of the lineup at one time. They won 7 in a row without them. So, what does that say about the Pens? If you took Tarves away from the Islanders what do you think would happen to them. What do you think would happen to Chicago without Toews? That's not what you're looking at here Ols. Doesn't matter how much skill the individual has over another top ranking player in the league. I think Crosby is the best the hockey player on the planet. No disputing that for me, but that's not what the description of the award is. Which is why I think they need to change the meaning of the award if they're to continue to jsut award it to the most talented in the league overall. Which is what the Pearson award is. So, 



    Great post, nite.  I fully agree with you after being reminded of this.

    Tavares or Bobrovsky for Hart.

    Oh wtf?  This is the Norris thread.  Anyway, I still agree.

     

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