Balance of power in the East

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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    kelvana33 I hate to argue but it will be difficult for any team to find the heart it took to win the cup that the Bruins showed this season and I don't think any of thses teams added the heart it will take to get much better than they are. I have been in Hockey for more than 50 years and don't need any lessons from you., but in this game of hockey we can always learn something new so I'm ready to learn. Thank you.
    Posted by brunod


    An undermanned Montreal team took a clearly more talented club within one goal of elimination....but they don't have any heart.

    Great analysis.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from samsonov. Show samsonov's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Dont worry brunod!  I know exactly what you are talking about!  I am not sure why these posters dont get what the difference between the Bruins and these other teams!  However I am not suggesting these teams dont have heart, the Bruins just have much more of it!  Sometimes I feel fortuate to have played both Hockey and Lacrosse up here in Canada at a high level.  Playing in seven game series and competing night in and night out taught me a very important lesson.  The teams with the greatest amount of heart and determnation will always overcome skill.  Cant think of a better example than this years stanley cup champions!!!!!!!





    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    BUF, MON, Was, have improved but added no heart which is what you need to beat the Bruins. Philly has destroyed their team and will have problems with chemestry as will most of these new look teams. I have learned this season that it is the heart of the team that gives the drive to the players to win it all and the Bruins still have it where these other teams still try to find it. Good luck, but go Bruins.
    Posted by brunod

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    You can have all the heart in the world, in fact you can have the Hart trophy winner, but if the other team has the hottest goalie in world, your losing. Bruins showed a ton of heart, not denying, i'm just not sure how one can say certain teams don't have any heart. Do the Columbus Blue Jackets have any heart? How do i know, i watched about 4 or 5 of their games this year. I do know if they put better players around Rick Nash they would be a better team.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from samsonov. Show samsonov's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Tim Thomas-HEART


    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    You can have all the heart in the world, in fact you can have the Hart trophy winner, but if the other team has the hottest goalie in world, your losing. Bruins showed a ton of heart, not denying, i'm just not sure how one can say certain teams don't have any heart. Do the Columbus Blue Jackets have any heart? How do i know, i watched about 4 or 5 of their games this year. I do know if they put better players around Rick Nash they would be a better team.
    Posted by kelvana33

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : Maybe the Bruins would have won the cup in 1992 if Cam Neely had been healthy; maybe a 100% healthy Marc Savard would have made a big difference in 2010. Pittsburgh just got to taste some of their own poison last season. It's still a team game; signing big names does not necessarily mean more success (see Gomez, Drury, etc.).Posted by MrHulot


    ^Yah Shup coulda, woulda, shoulda!
     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    the caps moved up the list with voukon, but still are a sure bet to exit in the first round, maybe 2nd 
    Posted by thedauber1

    don't know this
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    kelvana33 I hate to argue but it will be difficult for any team to find the heart it took to win the cup that the Bruins showed this season and I don't think any of thses teams added the heart it will take to get much better than they are. I have been in Hockey for more than 50 years and don't need any lessons from you., but in this game of hockey we can always learn something new so I'm ready to learn. Thank you.
    Posted by brunod


    I'd rather defer to your expertise, since you've "followed hockey for more than 50 years". Given that type of background, I have a question that you're certainly equipped to answer.

    Certainly you remember the 1993 Canadiens. They were a team that in its makeup was quite similar to this year's past Bruins team: both didn't have a ton of marquee players but relied on a true team concept, both had guys in goal who were phenominal, both had rocky playoff starts (losing the first 2 games and looked lousy doing it) but came off the campus to survive and then go on a roll. Heck, both had coaches that were under-fire and "should be fired" all season, and despite all that, both went on to win the Cup.  "Heart" was given a ton of credit for that team's success.

    Here's the strange part:  the defending Champion Habs only finished 3rd in their division (5th in the conference). They got bounced in round 1, as I'm sure you remember, as the Bruins knocked them off in 7 games. This happened despite the vast majority of the team (and almost all of the top line/pairing players, as well as Patrick Roy) returning from that Cup-winning season. In other words, those players who showed that tremendous "heart" a year before had returned.

    Now Samsonov can jump in here, too, since he has a high-level of experience in hockey and lacrosse, but I am curious how that could have happened. If "heart" trumps everything else, how could a team that won a Cup almost entirely due to that element could lose that inate characteristic learned by playing through adversity as well as high-pressure playoff situations? Or to put it another way, is heart something that teams/players have for a short period of time, as opposed to a "once you have it, you have it" sort of characteristic?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Heart is a wonderful thing in many circumstances, but put me in the camp that says better players trumps all.

    I think the Blackhawks this year showed tons more heart than Vancouver.  They lost to them.  Last year's Flyers showed an enormous amount of heart making the playoffs in a shootout in Game 82 and coming back against the Bruins.  Essentially the same team was swept this year.  What, they lost that heart?  No, they lost Chris Pronger, their goaltending was terrible and they were outplayed.

    I agree with Kennedy about Montreal.  I dont like Montreal, I dont care for the diving, but they showed enormous heart aganst Boston.  The Bruins were a better team.

    And I don't know how anyone can measure Washington, Buffalo or even the 2012 Flyers' "heart" at all... they are different teams than they were last year.

    Plenty of people questioned the B's heart coming into this season... and how could they have known how the infusion of Marchand, Kelly, Seguin, Peverly and the removal of Wheeler  would affect their "heart??"  And you are going to predict these 3 new teams' chemistry?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    I remember the Jets 1.0. In the 80's they had a solid group of players with some real talent, but they were made up of mainly great character guys - heart, heart and more heart. They routinely finished in the top five in the standings in the whole league, in large part thanks to an unbelievable team work ethic. And what happened to those teams?

    They routinely got bounced from the playoffs in the first round because they had to go up against the vastly more talented Oilers or Flames.

    Heart only gets you so much, skill and team depth will win out.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    I remember the Jets 1.0. In the 80's they had a solid group of players with some real talent, but they were made up of mainly great character guys - heart, heart and more heart. They routinely finished in the top five in the standings in whole the league, in large part thanks to an unbelievable team work ethic. And what happened to those teams? They routinely got bounced from the playoffs in the first round because they had to go up against the vastly more talented Oilers or Flames. Heart only gets you so much, skill and team depth will win out.
    Posted by red75

    Well put Red. The 80's Jets are a great example. It's great to have heart but I'd rather be good.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : Well put Red. The 80's Jets are a great example. It's great to have heart but I'd rather be good.
    Posted by dezaruchi



    Yeah Dez, Laurie Boschman may well be one of the hardest working and guttsiest players I've ever watched, the guy defined "heart", but when it comes down to it, who would I rather have as my second-line centre? Boschman or Messier? Everyone who ever watched a hockey game knows the answer to that. Heck, I think Hawerchuk had far more heart than Gretzky, but again we all know how that battle played out on the ice. (And that comes from someone who has a Ducky tattoo).

    Talent and depth almost always wins. Randy Carlyle had three times the heart of Paul Coffey, but only half the talent. The old Jets are a cautionary tale for anyone who values character over skill.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    The '93 Canadiens were one of the luckiest teams in NHL history.  The league's two best teams, the Penguins and Bruins, lost in the first round through strange circumstance, while in their defeat of the Bruins the Sabres lost LaFontane and Mogilny, making them easy pickings for the habs.  Those habs were good but not great.  In contrast, the Bruins were pegged by many experts to come out of the East before the playoffs began.  They got some good fortune too, mostly the injuries to Pittsburgh players and their own good health, but comparing them to the '93 habs doesn't really hold, other than the great goal tending. 


    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : I'd rather defer to your expertise, since you've "followed hockey for more than 50 years". Given that type of background, I have a question that you're certainly equipped to answer. Certainly you remember the 1993 Canadiens. They were a team that in its makeup was quite similar to this year's past Bruins team: both didn't have a ton of marquee players but relied on a true team concept, both had guys in goal who were phenominal, both had rocky playoff starts (losing the first 2 games and looked lousy doing it) but came off the campus to survive and then go on a roll. Heck, both had coaches that were under-fire and "should be fired" all season, and despite all that, both went on to win the Cup.  "Heart" was given a ton of credit for that team's success. Here's the strange part:  the defending Champion Habs only finished 3rd in their division (5th in the conference). They got bounced in round 1, as I'm sure you remember, as the Bruins knocked them off in 7 games. This happened despite the vast majority of the team (and almost all of the top line/pairing players, as well as Patrick Roy) returning from that Cup-winning season. In other words, those players who showed that tremendous "heart" a year before had returned. Now Samsonov can jump in here, too, since he has a high-level of experience in hockey and lacrosse, but I am curious how that could have happened. If "heart" trumps everything else, how could a team that won a Cup almost entirely due to that element could lose that inate characteristic learned by playing through adversity as well as high-pressure playoff situations? Or to put it another way, is heart something that teams/players have for a short period of time, as opposed to a "once you have it, you have it" sort of characteristic?
    Posted by Kennedy97

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Pitt (healthy Crosby + Malkin)
    Bos
    Wsh
    TB
    Buf
    NJ
    Mtl
    Tor
    Phi
    Car
    NYR
    Wpg
    NYI
    Ott
    Fla
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanley Cup - 2011-2012
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 2012-2013
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 2013-2014


    Worked for StanleyCupBruins......thought I'd give it a try............LOL

     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    This Bruins team will win the next 2 cups in a row. MARK IT DOWN
     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    I think the Leafs should set more realistic goals, like making the playoffs....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : Yeah Dez, Laurie Boschman may well be one of the hardest working and guttsiest players I've ever watched, the guy defined "heart", but when it comes down to it, who would I rather have as my second-line centre? Boschman or Messier? Everyone who ever watched a hockey game knows the answer to that. Heck, I think Hawerchuk had far more heart than Gretzky, but again we all know how that battle played out on the ice. (And that comes from someone who has a Ducky tattoo). Talent and depth almost always wins. Randy Carlyle had three times the heart of Paul Coffey, but only half the talent. The old Jets are a cautionary tale for anyone who values character over skill.
    Posted by red75

    Comparing Boschman's "heart" vs Messier's "heart" may not be the best example to use. Messier is regarded as one of hockey's greatest leaders of all time, which requires "heart".
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanley Cup - 2011-2012 Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 2012-2013 Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 2013-2014 Worked for StanleyCupBruins......thought I'd give it a try............LOL Posted by LoveRealHockey


    ^Nice!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : Comparing Boschman's "heart" vs Messier's "heart" may not be the best example to use. Messier is regarded as one of hockey's greatest leaders of all time, which requires "heart".
    Posted by Klaas


    I was comparing their skill sets, not their heart, which they both had a tonne of
    but who had more skill? Maybe not a perfect example between those two players, but the overall example of the 80's Jets I think works well.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanley Cup - 3011-3012
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 3012-3013
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 3013-3014


    Worked for StanleyCupBruins......thought I'd give it a try............LOL


    FIXED.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    The '93 Canadiens were one of the luckiest teams in NHL history.  The league's two best teams, the Penguins and Bruins, lost in the first round through strange circumstance, while in their defeat of the Bruins the Sabres lost LaFontane and Mogilny, making them easy pickings for the habs.
     In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East :Posted by OatesCam


    Well, first off, your statement is wrong.  Alexander Mogilny and Pat Lafontaine were not injured in the series with Boston. Both were injured in Game 3 of the Sabres/Habs series. At that time, Sabres were already down 2-0 in games, and Montreal led 2-0 in the 2nd period in the game before Mogilny, the first to get hurt, went down.  Saying that the Habs couldn't beat the Sabres with Lafontaine and Mogilny is inaccurate, since they'd already done it twice and were ahead in game 3.

    As for not facing better teams, each team had to face only 1 opponent (out of their 4) that had a better record than they did. The Habs avoided Boston and Pittsburgh, but did the Bruins have to face the Caps or the Pens? No. Now, as in 1993, who knows what would have happened had Boston had to go to PIT/WSH or if Montreal had to play Boston or Pittsburgh. Those potential opponents were all defeated, making their potential matchups moot, not to mention my comparison even more appropriate.

    Those habs were good but not great.  In contrast, the Bruins were pegged by many experts to come out of the East before the playoffs began. In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East :
    Posted by OatesCam


    This statement is wrong, too.

     The Canadiens were (like this year's Bruins) looked at as a team that was a threat to come out of the East. They won the Adams Division in 91-92 and acquired Vincent Damphousse and Brian Bellows, two very highly regarded players.  You are flat out wrong when you make claims that the Bruins were looked at a favourite to come out of the East last year but the Habs in 92-93 were not. Both teams were looked at as potential representatives of their respective conferences before their championship season started. The fact that the Habs put up 102 points (4th in the Wales Conference) proves that their regular season lived up to the hype--it was a dreadfully inconsistent March/April that had people doubting them and calling for Lemaire's head.

    They got some good fortune too, mostly the injuries to Pittsburgh players and their own good health, but comparing them to the '93 habs doesn't really hold, other than the great goal tending.  In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East :
    Posted by OatesCam


    Good fortune in the playoffs? Wow! What a concept! That never happens to teams that win the Cup!!

    Both teams stayed relatively healthy (in the playoffs, each team lost one major player for any significant time: Boston lost Horton, and Montreal lost Denis Savard). As mentioned, both had fortune with upsets and other team's injuries (you mention PIT's injuries: in 2011, would Crosby / Malkin being healthy have made a difference any more than Turgeon Each only had to play one team out of 4 that had a better record than they did in the regular season (Montreal played Quebec, Boston played Vancouver).

    The comparison to the 93 Habs is completely apt. Both teams rode a roster that didn't have a ton of stars outside of goal but had outstanding depth and cohesion to a Cup. Both teams had good fortune, but dismissing either's 16 playoff wins to "luck" is foolish.
     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : Well, first off, your statement is wrong.  Alexander Mogilny and Pat Lafontaine were not injured in  . .

    Was Lafontaine not injured (softened up) in the Bruins series.Then theHabs finished him off. Mogilny broke a leg against the habs. Anyway that was a hideous year. "May Day" etc.  The Islanders took their last game to overtime and got to play the Habs the next day in an afternoon game.  I hated that year,that series(McSorely stick incident), and that Riot. I lived in the West Island of Montreal then.Shoulda been the Leafs playing Montreal anyway. The Hockey gods all conspired to get the Habs the Cup. (You guessed it, the sourest of grapes here)
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    Toronto Maple Leafs Stanley Cup - 3011-3012 Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 3012-3013 Toronto Maple Leafs Stanely Cup - 3013-3014 Worked for StanleyCupBruins......thought I'd give it a try............LOL FIXED.
    Posted by Bookboy007

    Now that's just cruel............
     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East:
    In Response to Re: Balance of power in the East : An undermanned Montreal team and some bogus ref calls took a clearly more talented club within one goal of elimination.... they don't have any heart. Great analysis.
    Posted by Kennedy97


    Fixed that for ya.
     
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    Re: Balance of power in the East

    Philly has lost Carter, Richards and Gagne and Leino
    Wow they are not even close to the team that went to the finals.
     
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