best hockey state in the US?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    If your talking division one hockey programs, its Mass.. BC and BU are about as far as you need to go, I see a long list of teams that have never won anything on your list..

    Dominate leagues are the CCHA, HE and the WCH..

    I am suprised to see NY and michigan so high up though.. For a long time its was 20% american born NHLer's from mass, 17% from minnesota, and no other state was significantly represented.. So i guess at this point, I'd give minnesota the title..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    I think Minnesota may be the front-runner based on the shear numbers of players, interest, and culture.  High school hockey in Minnesota is clearly bigger than anywhere else in the states.

    But Massachusetts should be considered right there too.  An original six team, the most storied college hockey teams, more D-1 and D-3 programs per capita than any state, the primary home of the best prep league in the country, reknowned local hockey traditions -- Beanpot, Super-8, Hall of fame players, etc.

    Boston also serves as the epicenter of hockey that is not rivaled by any U.S. city, save for possibly Minneapolis.  Within 25 miles of downtown Boston you have dozens of college hockey programs, junior programs, a huge concentration of rinks, and original 6 franchise, and historic gems like the (RIP) Boston Garden, Matthews Arena, etc.

    Lastly, the Boston Bruins are the most historic, celebrated franchise in American hockey.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to best hockey state in the US?:
     BUT the clincher for me is number of quality Div.I college programs: RPI, Union, Clarkson,St. lawrence, Cornell, RIT, Niagra, Colgate, and  Canisius just to name a few. 


    Compare to Div. I programs at Boston College, Boston University, Harvard, Northeastern, Merrimack, Umass-Amerst, U-mass Lowell, Bentley, AIC, Holy Cross...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Fletch adds a good point "per capita" NY is 3 times the size of any of the above listed states,
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to Re: best hockey state in the US?:
    In Response to best hockey state in the US? :   BUT the clincher for me is number of quality Div.I college programs: RPI, Union, Clarkson,St. lawrence, Cornell, RIT, Niagra, Colgate, and  Canisius just to name a few.   Compare to Div. I programs at Boston College, Boston University, Harvard, Northeastern, Merrimack, Umass-Amerst, U-mass Lowell, Bentley, AIC, Holy Cross...
    Posted by Fletcher1


    And the fact that none of his "examples" played for a college in NY. 2 playing in hockey east and one playing juniors...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Depends what you mean by "best".

    Of course Im partial because Im born, raised and played hockey here my whole life, but for such a small state, we have a TON of hockey fans & players.  Pretty much everyone plays pond hockey and follows hockey, and the interest in Maine (UMO) hockey is probably bigger than NHL interest.  Its really crazy up here.  Problem is, we are such a poor state that we cant keep high school teams together because the state is always cutting programs & funding.  But everyone owns skates and a stick up here.  Seriously.  But, when you have NATURAL ice for 4-5 months a year, its one of a few things we have to do. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

     they were still born and raised in ny and honed their skills here, hate to say it but capt. of habs is a very honored position, as is goalie in det.- there has only been one other us born hab cap.  last time i will mention "them" again... sorry...just making  a point.. again i apologize
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    When it still existed I played in the Hockey Night In Boston Junior ShowCase (highschool)

    From Mass we had 4 teams. The rest of the country was represented by regions not even states IE Southeast FLA, ATL, CAR etc... Northwest Minn, Washington etc...

    Except for NY had its own team.

    The best Mass team (my team :) ) Went to the 2nd round of the playoffs and was bounced hard by the Northwest 7-1 or somethign. Now I now this is a grandpa story but w/e it shows that the amount of kids playing hockey per capita is much higher and of much better average quality in Mass for them to skate 4 teams to when many teams were groups of 5+ states best players and still succede.

    Thats just  HS Hockey throw in College and you have the #1 hockey state. Go BC love the BC hockey team.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    New York and Maine are both great hockey states.  For whatever reason a lot of the best NY players don't stay to play there in college, which is kind of a shame.  They either go to Boston (Gionta, Orpik, Reasoner) or play Canadian junior (Bobby Ryan, Bogosian, Kane).


    Although captain of the Habs is a very prestigeous spot, I think the upcoming NY players are better than the Gionta age guys.  Patrick Kane and Bobby Ryan are complete studs.


    Massachusetts had a tremendous wave of NHL players that have just recently retired and will likely be headed to the Hall of Fame like Tkachuk, Leetch, Roenick, Guerin, Amonte, etc.

    I think Mass or Minnesota are tops, but NY is certainly catching up...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Bigvig,
    having lived in nh, and maine, and mass, hockey is much bigger in mass.. Your right the the loyalty to the NHL is almost non existent.. Its all about local, if your near UMO thats who you follow, if your near portland thats who you follow, if your near lewiston.. etc.. etc..

    I would probably put vermont ahead of maine in regards to its hockey following, no offense..

    Adk.. Thats great that you think that, but you are beyong sounding objective and are now just biased..Based on your criteria, NY is a good hockey state, sure one of the top, but I think its still Minnesota and mass when you get down to it.. I lived in NY growing up (army brat  if you can't tell)  but most of the population of NY doesn't care about hockey its the number 4 sport in NY always has been always will be..the programs are good, but they are clearly second teir, you think its meaningless that ny born and raised players got out of NY first chance they could when it came time to play?

    By the way, If i was talking about how great ny was for hockey, I would probably have started with lake placid, but thats just me, an objective knowledgeable fan...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    of course i'm biased thats why i started the post w/ "i may be partial..." my point is i think ny gets lost in the hockey conversation for most people. most people don't even realize there is a population besides nyc- we are upstaters. also,don't forget ny is the home to 3 nhl teams- 1/10 of the league, and one is an original six. take away the population of nyc, and li- and i bet the per capita numbers are a lot closer ...maybe even tilted in ny favor-two different worlds in ny
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    If I had to rank the top 5:

    1. Minnesota
    2. Mass
    3. Michigan
    4. NY
    5. Wisconsin


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    but if your doing that, then take away 2 hockey teams as well?

    and your not being partially biased your being completely biased, mass knows its hockey.. White plains has put out a bunch of good D-1 players, but were not talking about that.. And you cant compare the hockey scene there to boston where all your major programs are withing 10 miles of each other..

    Its painful to say, but Minnesota is number 1, didn't used to be, but certainly is now..
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    New York is putting out great players, I'll certainly give you that.  But the hockey world in New York seems really divided within the state.

    The money, the original 6 team, and the NHL presence is in NYC.  But hockey is not a part of the culture at all.

    Exactly the opposite out in Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo which are great hockey towns.  Hockey is everywhere but it is very provincial with little national attention or appeal. 

    I guess with Minnesota and Mass, the hockey is part of the culture at every level and it is prominent in youth, high school, college, and pro, and Minneapolis-St. Paul and Boston are true national hockey cities with top flight teams at every level. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    OK, so what is the cryteria?  Teams, college programs, high school programs, amount of players overall, amount of players in the NHL?  Listen, Mass has a TON of people and a ton of money.  Same as NY.  Point is of COURSE they are going to be great hockey states.  I dont think you can say one is better than another unless you have certain cryteria.  All I know is, when Im driving around seeing kids playing hockey outside everywhere, no matter the weather, and everyone talking about hockey at some level or another, thats a great hockey state.  Maine meets those cryteria.  Of course places like Mass and NY are going to produce more players, we only have 1.3 million people here and we are a HUGE state, spread out all over the place with horrible weather, long winters and shallow pockets.  Hockey keeps us going during the winter months. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    NY is a good, solid pocket, but it's not in the same league as Minny and Mass/NE.  It never has been and probably never will be.

    Michigan puts out more players than upstate NY.

    As for criteria, I am weighing it all and considering the idea that Boston proper only has 500,000 people, so I am also including New England, overall. 

    I also include high school/prep school programs, colleges and consistency through the years.  This doesn't count NHL or minor league organizations.

    I am not even sure how the Minnesota/Mass-NE thing is even debatable. These two regions are head and shoulders the strongest pockets.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    bigvig,
    It was everything, participation, teams, following.. I think it was based on the quantity of NHL players, we did throw in the Percapita, But I am not sure there is a single maine born player in the NHL right now? 

    hockey is part of the NE culture, as fletch pointed out, but maines not a hot bed for producing quality players, I have paid any attention to UMO in a while, but when Damon played on the team it was a big deal cause he was a "local boy".. Though he played prep hockey in nh..

    Do you know how many people told me Lewiston could beat the pirates? do you know how stupid of a statement that is.. They loved their team, doesn't make it a great hockey state though.. Like I said I have lived all over, hockey in maine is not what it is in mass...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    19 million people in ny...16 million in nyc and LI- that leaves 3 million residents in the "upstate region"- quite sparsely populated only 5 of the 28 are nyc/LI residents- 23 NHLers from 3 mil.....mass-15 from 6.5 mil, minn-33 from 5.2 mil, mich-29 from 10 mil... do the math... like i said ny is two different worlds-upstaters and downstaters- our upstate hockey culture rivals any in the country!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to Re: best hockey state in the US?:
    OK, so what is the cryteria?  Teams, college programs, high school programs, amount of players overall, amount of players in the NHL?  Listen, Mass has a TON of people and a ton of money.  Same as NY.  Point is of COURSE they are going to be great hockey states.  I dont think you can say one is better than another unless you have certain cryteria.  All I know is, when Im driving around seeing kids playing hockey outside everywhere, no matter the weather, and everyone talking about hockey at some level or another, thats a great hockey state.  Maine meets those cryteria.  Of course places like Mass and NY are going to produce more players, we only have 1.3 million people here and we are a HUGE state, spread out all over the place with horrible weather, long winters and shallow pockets.  Hockey keeps us going during the winter months. 
    Posted by bigvig


    I think the criteria is all of that; Everything. (but I am not the OP)

    I guess that's why I favor Mass and Minn -- they have it all.  Culture, history, ponds, rinks, high school, prep, junior, NCAA Div. 1, NCAA Div. 3, AHL, NHL, big hockey tourneys, tradition, championships, Olympians, media, Hall of Famers, etc.

    Places like Maine and Rochester NY may have the purist hockey culture as it is the #1 sport and truly part of the fabric (I grew up going up to Bowdoin College hockey games in Brunswick, Maine and it was the greatest).  But, they don't have it all if the criteria if it is truly everything.

    Mass does.  Minn does.  NY, Michigan, and Wisconsin are close.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to Re: best hockey state in the US?:
    19 million people in ny...16 million in nyc and LI- that leaves 3 million residents in the "upstate region"- quite sparsely populated only 5 of the 28 are nyc/LI residents- 23 NHLers from 3 mil.....mass-15 from 6.5 mil, minn-33 from 5.2 mil, mich-29 from 10 mil... do the math... like i said ny is two different worlds-upstaters and downstaters- our upstate hockey culture rivals any in the country!
    Posted by adkbeesfan



    The math has been done.  You are narrowing down the context to tailor it to the current NHL.

    NY has made a lot of headway in recent years putting out some good players in the league, but over the years (long term), NY is not close to the MN/MA output.

    3 or 4 years from now your numbers might completely change.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to Re: best hockey state in the US?:

    19 million people in ny...16 million in nyc and LI- that leaves 3 million residents in the "upstate region"- quite sparsely populated only 5 of the 28 are nyc/LI residents- 23 NHLers from 3 mil.....mass-15 from 6.5 mil, minn-33 from 5.2 mil, mich-29 from 10 mil... do the math... like i said ny is two different worlds-upstaters and downstaters- our upstate hockey culture rivals any in the country!
    Posted by adkbeesfan


    beesfan, I see what you are saying but I just don't think you can divide up your state like that for the purpose of the argument.  It is what it is.  One end of the state produces talent and has college hockey, the other end has the original 6 team and NHL appeal.  Boston has both.  Minneapolis has both.


    All three states have great hockey, but if I had to rank them...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    In Response to Re: best hockey state in the US?:
    19 million people in ny...16 million in nyc and LI- that leaves 3 million residents in the "upstate region"- quite sparsely populated only 5 of the 28 are nyc/LI residents- 23 NHLers from 3 mil.....mass-15 from 6.5 mil, minn-33 from 5.2 mil, mich-29 from 10 mil... do the math... like i said ny is two different worlds-upstaters and downstaters- our upstate hockey culture rivals any in the country!
    Posted by adkbeesfan

    You can manipulate stats to say whatever you want, this becomes not worth talking about if you dont want to hear anyone else opinion..

    Most of the mass hockey population is the immediate boston area, 2.5m people. so 15 from 2.5..

    but then your eliminating the D-1 teams criterior, which you thought heavily favored NY, but actually heavily favors boston above all else..

    once you get to upstate your also lack "population density" which in general is a deterent when you are talking about the "culture" of an area..

    I can speak for NH in saying moving from 1 large division of 30 plus teams back in the late 80's early 90's has made playing more fun for small schools, less skilled players etc, but has also hurt the talent pool with in the state greatly..

    Bigvig, maine has put out more top prospects in baseball, and basketball as of late then hockey.. The pirates nearly left the state because they are a great number of people who don't care.. your in maine, and you love hockey but theres really only 1 program at each level, and its the "only" game in town in a lot of ways..
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Having grown up in Manitoba, I'd give slight edge to Minn. over Mass., just for the sheer volume of community indoor and outdoor rinks and the fact you can't go anywhere in the winter without seeing some kid carrying sticks and skates, plus their success at amateur levels.

    That said, if you're talking about best hockey culture, I'd give it to a state where almost no one lives - North Dakota. I know all they have are the Fighting Sioux, but it's the third least populace state in the union, and hockey is pretty much all they have going for them in the winter. Drive through it between November and March and all you see is people of all ages on outdoor rinks and ponds. I remember reading in the Winnipeg Free Press that more people play hockey per capita in ND than in any other state, organized or just pick-up, and it wasn't even close. Unless once the final tally comes in Buffalo passes them, Grand Forks still hosted the most financially successful WJHC in American history, and they only have a population of 50,000. They did a better job than even Boston did. They live and breath the game, even if the whole state barely has 600,000 people.

    So I suppose it depends on how you define the best. I'd still give the overall title to Minn. then Mass., but I have to give serious props to ND.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Just looked up all-time NHL players by state out of curiosity:

    Minnesota - 206
    Massachusetts - 166
    Michigan - 122
    New York - 85
    Illinois - 41
    Wisconsin - 25
    Connecticut - 25

    I know it is just one facet of this debate.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: best hockey state in the US?

    Fletch,
    I think a "H.O.F" list would paint a pretty strong picture as well..
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share