Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    Now the clock is ticking. I was under the impression that if a new deal wasnt reached they may start anyways. So much for that.

    I dont like the sound of that.

    http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8252148/national-hockey-league-commissioner-gary-bettman-updates-cba-talks
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I am real disappointed that the NHLPA waited till July 13th to ask the league for 76,000 pages of financial as well. Give the owners a damn counter proposal already!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout


    In Response to Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]Now the clock is ticking. I was under the impression that if a new deal wasnt reached they may start anyways. So much for that. I dont like the sound of that. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8252148/national-hockey-league-commissioner-gary-bettman-updates-cba-talks
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    I hate Bettman but like hearing him debate.  Essentially a month or a delayed season.  The popularity of the game and structure of the last CBA gives me some hope.  I truly believe this lockout would hurt the owners more then the players. 
    If there is no hockey I will be one unhappy camper.  Why do they have to wait until the very end.  Why couldnt they be talking all along. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]I am real disappointed that the NHLPA waited till July 13th to ask the league for 76,000 pages of financial as well. Give the owners a damn counter proposal already!
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    S crew the owners.  They are at fault.  Why counter on a stupid initial offer.  Make a serious offer and maybe the players will get back to them.  I blame the owners and league for all the bad in the game.  They created this mess.  Then they go sign Weber/Parise/Suter contracts.
    I'm with the NHLPA on this one.  Everything about the game has improved.  They went against their wishes and did a cap.  
     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : I hate Bettman but like hearing him debate.  Essentially a month or a delayed season.  The popularity of the game and structure of the last CBA gives me some hope.  I truly believe this lockout would hurt the owners more then the players.  If there is no hockey I will be one unhappy camper.  Why do they have to wait until the very end.  Why couldnt they be talking all along. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    There is no doubt Bettman is one smart guy, and winning a debate against him would be very tough,just ask Ron Maclean. Like i've said before, when millionaires take on billionaires, its not hard to figure out who will win. A lock out might hurt some owners but really it won't hurt many. A lock out will hurt the game and that is really too bad because the league has come a long way in recovering from the last stoppage. The fact is true hockey fans will return after a shutdown, its the "part timers" that they will lose.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : There is no doubt Bettman is one smart guy, and winning a debate against him would be very tough,just ask Ron Maclean. Like i've said before, when millionaires take on billionaires, its not hard to figure out who will win. A lock out might hurt some owners but really it won't hurt many. A lock out will hurt the game and that is really too bad because the league has come a long way in recovering from the last stoppage. The fact is true hockey fans will return after a shutdown, its the "part timers" that they will lose.
    Posted by 50belowzero[/QUOTE]

    Well said.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout :  I blame the owners and league for all the bad in the game.  They created this mess. Then they go sign Weber/Parise/Suter contracts. I'm with the NHLPA on this one.  Everything about the game has improved.  They went against their wishes and did a cap.   Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    I am not disagreeing that the owners are greedy, they are. However the NHLPA has had plenty of time to get back to them since the initial proposal. That was wasted time.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : There is no doubt Bettman is one smart guy, and winning a debate against him would be very tough,just ask Ron Maclean. Like i've said before, when millionaires take on billionaires, its not hard to figure out who will win. A lock out might hurt some owners but really it won't hurt many. A lock out will hurt the game and that is really too bad because the league has come a long way in recovering from the last stoppage. The fact is true hockey fans will return after a shutdown, its the "part timers" that they will lose.
    Posted by 50belowzero[/QUOTE]

    Very well said.  Especially when the league owns a team like the Coyotes.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : I am not disagreeing that the owners are greedy, they are. However the NHLPA has had plenty of time to get back to them since the initial proposal. That was wasted time.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    The time wasted was on the initial offer.  I wouldnt respond to it either.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : The time wasted was on the initial offer.  I wouldnt respond to it either. Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    You should never negotiate lol
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    San,

    Nope.  It takes two to negotiate.  The offer was a joke and insult. I wouldnt respond to a joke offer...i would send it back after it hit the shredder...
    How is it good for business to start that way.  Did they put a happy face sticker on it as well. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : There is no doubt Bettman is one smart guy, and winning a debate against him would be very tough,just ask Ron Maclean. Like i've said before, when millionaires take on billionaires, its not hard to figure out who will win. A lock out might hurt some owners but really it won't hurt many. A lock out will hurt the game and that is really too bad because the league has come a long way in recovering from the last stoppage. The fact is true hockey fans will return after a shutdown, its the "part timers" that they will lose.
    Posted by 50belowzero[/QUOTE]

    and the "true" fans should teach the nhl a lesson and stay away when they return....  at least for one season anyway....

    but we all know that won't happen....
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I don't blame all owners for bad contracts any more than I blame all players for Raffi Torres hits. Neither the teams nor players are allies except for in collective negotiations - at all other times it's every man for themselves. As a group everyone involved needs to come up with rules (on the ice and off) that will make for a successful league. I blame no one at this stage. I blamed the players last time because I felt the league needed a cap to be fun to watch again. This time I think it's mostly about how much of the pie everyone gets. I blame/sympathise with neither side in this go around just hope they settle on how big the ridiculous mountains of cash everyone gets for entertaining us will be before October. I do think they need to limit contract lengths though - they are using them to get around the cap and max contract rules. The owners' lowball first offer is standard negotiations... they have to try to get the players to be happy with the 50:50 split that the owners really want.

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : S crew the owners.  They are at fault.  Why counter on a stupid initial offer.  Make a serious offer and maybe the players will get back to them.  I blame the owners and league for all the bad in the game.  They created this mess.  Then they go sign Weber/Parise/Suter contracts. I'm with the NHLPA on this one.  Everything about the game has improved.  They went against their wishes and did a cap.    
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:[QUOTE] The owners' lowball first offer is standard negotiations... they have to try to get the players to be happy with the 50:50 split that the owners really want. In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout : Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Well put and why the 1st offer was so outlandish but eventually it comes back the middle where a compromise can be had.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]I don't blame all owners for bad contracts any more than I blame all players for Raffi Torres hits. Neither the teams nor players are allies except for in collective negotiations - at all other times it's every man for themselves. As a group everyone involved needs to come up with rules (on the ice and off) that will make for a successful league. I blame no one at this stage. I blamed the players last time because I felt the league needed a cap to be fun to watch again. This time I think it's mostly about how much of the pie everyone gets. I blame/sympathise with neither side in this go around just hope they settle on how big the ridiculous mountains of cash everyone gets for entertaining us will be before October. I do think they need to limit contract lengths though - they are using them to get around the cap and max contract rules. The owners' lowball first offer is standard negotiations... they have to try to get the players to be happy with the 50:50 split that the owners really want. In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    I agree that a lowball offer is standard practice. The thing that kills me is that the owners are the ones signing off on the mega sneaky deals.  They are breaking the strick rules they implemented.  Its a joke.  Richards/Weber/Parise/Kovy/Suter etc etc etc....all contracts that were made full well knowing the players will never play them out.  Weber will get 24 or 26 million in a 12 month span.  HOW can the owners say anything.  Make a decent offer so this thing doesnt get ugly. 
    I agree on a 5-6 year max contract length.  But even salary throughout...or a raise of 5% throughout the duration. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from felixwas. Show felixwas's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    Considering how hockey has continued to grow in a down economy, the owners' plan for a lockout—it's now clear this was their goal all along—makes no sense. Fans should stage their own "lockout" when a new CBA is reached. There's plenty of hockey on TV, the snacks and beer in our kitchens are inexpensive, there's no line in the restrooms, and parking is free.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I think we can all agree that it only takes one or two owners/GMs making fiscally irresponsible deals to create an inflationary spiral.  Then, even if other GMs don't want to feed the fire, they have no choice, or else they won't be able to (re)sign their players or free agents.

    What owners are looking for is to protect themselves from themselves; or, at least, the dumbest versions of themselves.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I am happy about this.  No dancing around by the NHL.  They are the company.  The workers are going to try hold their line.  It won't work.  Do you think Parise cares if free agency is at 27 or 31?  Do you think Chara wants to lose $X in order to avoid bi-yearly drug test?  Certainly not.  These are hockey players, no different than many of us outside of the skill level and bank account.  I'd suggest that I'm much smarter (IQ wise) than most of them.

    If Hockey Player A gets a $13M contract or a $9M contract, I don't give him the right to cry about the $9M.  No way.

    The owners carry the league.  If all of the owners decided to fold the teams, most of these guys would be selling cars or off to the mills.  It's not as if the proposal is a 90% pay cut here.  Most of it is priviledges. 

    A few thoughts about things above:

    1.  On the idea that a work stoppage will hurt the NHL, well, how's your memory?  No hockey in the first half of '94.  Result?  A bigger and better NHL.  Full season canceled for '04-05.  Result.  Best league to date. 

    2.  But, NAS, what about the fringe fans?  They can beat feet.  Why care about other fans?  I don't watch games with them. 

    3.  The Owners initial offer was stupid.  Here's an old rule of negotiation:  If you are not embarrassed by your initial offer, it's not low enough.  In order to find out what someone will accept, you have to find out what they won't.  There is nothing worse in negotiation than having your first offer accepted.  That means you clearly left a lot on the table.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    Must be a slow news day.  Everyone who thought the owners were not prepared to lock out the players were kidding themselves.  The owners would not have asked to negotiate a new CBA unless they were willing to lock out the players.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I have the feeling that if an agreement does get reached it will be last minute. I really don't care who is right, who is wrong, I just want hockey in my living room come October.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from juniorfalcon19. Show juniorfalcon19's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]Now the clock is ticking. I was under the impression that if a new deal wasnt reached they may start anyways. So much for that. I dont like the sound of that. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8252148/national-hockey-league-commissioner-gary-bettman-updates-cba-talks
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    how about we wait until the NHLPA makes their counter proposal on tuesday
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    NAS is absolute on his #3.  In addition the owners are few and the players are many.  So when making a stance it is easy with a few.  Now those few are not aligned with the negotiation stance initially proposed.  So, the players are not worried.  A Cap is a reality, so the offer of a low ball revenue share with players is due diligence given an long term inflation prognostication but as has been said on here a few times (sorry no recollection) a lucrative TV deal will produce a urgency to agree. A long term CBA seems unlikely.  The Parise and Suter contracts will be coffin nails for the owners imo.  5 year CBA seems reasonable to my thoughts.   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    I don't like that the game is really healthy overall and the money is certainly flowing in, but the richest of the teams want the players to carry the tab for the welfare recipients of the league (CBJ, FLA, PHX, etc). As I saw in an attached article here a while ago...this is not a owner vs. player issue, its an owner vs. owner issue.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]I am happy about this.  No dancing around by the NHL.  They are the company.  The workers are going to try hold their line.  It won't work.  Do you think Parise cares if free agency is at 27 or 31?  Do you think Chara wants to lose $X in order to avoid bi-yearly drug test?  Certainly not.  These are hockey players, no different than many of us outside of the skill level and bank account.  I'd suggest that I'm much smarter (IQ wise) than most of them. If Hockey Player A gets a $13M contract or a $9M contract, I don't give him the right to cry about the $9M.  No way. The owners carry the league.  If all of the owners decided to fold the teams, most of these guys would be selling cars or off to the mills.  
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    You must have been drinking when you wrote this. It is the only way to explain such a silly statement.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout

    In Response to Re: Bettman says no new CBA = Lockout:
    [QUOTE]I am happy about this.  No dancing around by the NHL.  They are the company.  The workers are going to try hold their line.  It won't work.  Do you think Parise cares if free agency is at 27 or 31?  Do you think Chara wants to lose $X in order to avoid bi-yearly drug test?  Certainly not.  These are hockey players, no different than many of us outside of the skill level and bank account.  I'd suggest that I'm much smarter (IQ wise) than most of them. If Hockey Player A gets a $13M contract or a $9M contract, I don't give him the right to cry about the $9M.  No way. The owners carry the league.  If all of the owners decided to fold the teams, most of these guys would be selling cars or off to the mills.  It's not as if the proposal is a 90% pay cut here.  Most of it is priviledges.  A few thoughts about things above: 1.  On the idea that a work stoppage will hurt the NHL, well, how's your memory?  No hockey in the first half of '94.  Result?  A bigger and better NHL.  Full season canceled for '04-05.  Result.  Best league to date.  2.  But, NAS, what about the fringe fans?  They can beat feet.  Why care about other fans?  I don't watch games with them.  3.  The Owners initial offer was stupid.  Here's an old rule of negotiation:  If you are not embarrassed by your initial offer, it's not low enough.  In order to find out what someone will accept, you have to find out what they won't.  There is nothing worse in negotiation than having your first offer accepted.  That means you clearly left a lot on the table.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    One bourbon, one scotch and one beer
     
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