Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49thparallel. Show 49thparallel's posts

    Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    Both teams have coaches that don't match the players assembled. Both have extended their core this year. Sedins can't score anymore and will be around for 3 more years. Dion and 81 extended large. Clarkson contract lasts 6 more years. Ugh... Do you blow them both up?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I'd have to say Canucks.  No GM.  A Coach in his first year there who's already widely disliked and performing poorly.  No NHL goalie.  A broken blueline with some badly overpaid guys.  Aging talent all over the forward lines.

    Can't believe they gave up on Hodgson.  Better hope Horvat becomes a stud fast.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    I'd have to say Canucks.  No GM.  A Coach in his first year there who's already widely disliked and performing poorly.  No NHL goalie.  A broken blueline with some badly overpaid guys.  Aging talent all over the forward lines.

    Can't believe they gave up on Hodgson.  Better hope Horvat becomes a stud fast.



    I don't think they gave up on Hodgson as much as they overpaid to adrdress an insecurity.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I think the Hodgson problem stemmed from an interfering parents problem and differing opinions on an injury suffered by Hodgson that lead to a trade to keep both sides happy.I don't see how Linden being named the director of hockey operations is going to help the Nucks but its their show so they can do what they want.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I think they need to convince Kesler to stay, but if they can't, they better get a good return for him. I suspect there would be a line at the door if he became available. Terrific player with a contract that isnt bad either.

    I would go get Cam Ward.

    I would hire Guy Carbonneau as my coach.

    I would look into trading the Sedins. Something tells me Washington would be a terrific trading partner. Could you imagine Ovechkin on a line with the Sedin twins? He'd net 70, and his plus/minus wouldnt be bad either.

    I would sign Ryan Callahan.

    Perhaps I can have Stanley type my resume and send it to Trevor Linden.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    As far as who's a bigger mess?I'd go with the Nucks,aging core,too many NTC's,no established goalie,no grit.The Lerfs as has been stated at least have something to work on,they just need some big help on defence,they were just horrible in their own end and only goaltending masked their deficiencies and kept them in the running as long as they were.Phaneuf takes a lot of heat and rightly so,he's supposedly their leader and defensive kingpin but is an outright disaster in his own end,i will say he has a howitzer of a shot if he hits the net and can lay out the odd big check if he isn't taking his own player out of the play first.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.



    Ditto, but I really hope that Randy learned his lesson as well where ever he goes. You can't have a coach so willingly to throw his own players under the bus. Especially your most important one. As far as I'm concerned that was the downfall right there. It all started in the HBO 24/7 series when he told 2 players on camera that he was scratching them & why. I think he lost his team after that. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

       I'll go with the concensus, and say Canucks.

    It appears that Trevor Linden will be the new man in charge (as long as he does whatever the owners want).

    His zero experience will only hurt this team further.

    The only positive I see, is that Linden and Tortorella should be on the same page, as to what kind of team they want.

    Problem is, they still don't have the personel to play that style, and short of trading the Twins, I don't see how they make the transition.

    Still hard to believe that this time last year, their biggest "problem" was having 2 #1 goalies.

    Good job, Gillis :)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.



    Ditto, but I really hope that Randy learned his lesson as well where ever he goes. You can't have a coach so willingly to throw his own players under the bus. Especially your most important one. As far as I'm concerned that was the downfall right there. It all started in the HBO 24/7 series when he told both players on camera that he was scratching them. I think he lost his team after that.



    I only recall him throwing Reimer under the bus and maybe Kadri,never heard him say a bad word about Phat Phil or Phaneuf.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    Right now, the Canucks -  but in the bigger picture i'll go with the Leafs.  

    The Canucks have a respectable recent history going back a few seasons of making the playoffs and going deep a few times.  

    The Leafs made a big leap forward by pushing the Bs to a Game 7 last season after a decade of futilty.  Here, they are back to same ol' same ol'.  From a perception standpoint that's a complete 180 disaster.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from socca10. Show socca10's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    Gonna disagree with the conventional wisdom a bit here. The Canucks are only a couple seasons removed from being best regular-season team in the NHL. Agree on aging stars, bad coaching fit and some head-scratching front office decisions, but I think they at least have some talent and leadership on the ice that can be salvaged.

     

    Toronto is the land of misfit, under-achieving toys. Sure they have some skilled young players, but the utter lack of commitment and leadership on the ice is pervasive and contagious.

     

    And Phaneuf IS that bad. If I had to compare him to anyone on the B's, I'd say he's like a pin-headed version of  Meszaros. Decent offensive instincts, soft in his own end, questionable decision-maker (esp. on defense)... now add no leadership skills, soft (yes, more soft), and a fixation on trying to lay big hits on much smaller players -- usually at the wrong time.

     

    Can't remember which goal, but in the last B's/Leafs game, one of Boston's goal scoring plays started when Phaneuf decided to try to paste Marchand into the half boards at center ice, which got him all tied up and left the Leafs short-handed in their defensive end. Goal, thanks very much. 

     

    Either way though, both teams are a mess and probably will be for a while. I just see the Canucks coming out of it quicker than the Leafs. At least the Canucks remember what it's like to win consistently; the Leafs lockout-shortened 2013 campaign was their version of lightning in a bottle.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.



    Ditto, but I really hope that Randy learned his lesson as well where ever he goes. You can't have a coach so willingly to throw his own players under the bus. Especially your most important one. As far as I'm concerned that was the downfall right there. It all started in the HBO 24/7 series when he told both players on camera that he was scratching them. I think he lost his team after that.



    I only recall him throwing Reimer under the bus and maybe Kadri,never heard him say a bad word about Phat Phil or Phaneuf.



    That's just it. You never see Quenneville, Babcock or Julien doing this. You don't need to publicly embarrass anyone to make a point. Did Julien embarrass Lucic last year when he scratched him? Did he embarrass Thomas to the media back in 2010 when he gave Rask the #1 job? No he didn't. He kept it in house and within the "family". No matter how much he was pressed, or asked about it. A coach who throws his players around to the media is someone who's not willing to accept his own responsibility for his mistakes. Doesn't matter if it's the 4th liner or the 8th dman. You don't need to do it to anybody.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

     

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.

     



    Ditto, but I really hope that Randy learned his lesson as well where ever he goes. You can't have a coach so willingly to throw his own players under the bus.Especially your most important one. As far as I'm concerned that was the downfall right there. It all started in the HBO 24/7 series when he told both players on camera that he was scratching them. I think he lost his team after that.

     



    I only recall him throwing Reimer under the bus and maybe Kadri,never heard him say a bad word about Phat Phil or Phaneuf.



    That's just it. You never see Quenneville, Babcock or Julien doing this. You don't need to publicly embarrass anyone to make a point. Did Julien embarrass Lucic last year when he scratched him? Did he embarrass Thomas to the media back in 2010 when he gave Rask the #1 job? No he didn't. He kept it in house and within the "family". No matter how much he was pressed, or asked about it. A coach who throws his players around to the media is someone who's not willing to accept his own responsibility for his mistakes. Doesn't matter if it's the 4th liner or the 8th dman. You don't need to do it to anybody.



    I agree %100 percent Nite,i just thought when you used plural that he called more than one player out and i couldn't recall it.It seemed it was always Reimer and i didn't care for it either.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I want to find a reason to say Laffs.  Best I can do is that they may be a few years before they realize they're on the hamster wheel of 15-18th place finishes.  Yeah, you might squeak in every year or two or three, but you won't last, and you won't get much better quickly drafting in that range.  They might have been bad enough this year to cost Carlyle his job, but not Nonis.  They'll probably cruise along under vanilla Nonis for a few years without getting the key pieces they need, and then they'll do something catastrophically stupid that sends them back to the stone age like trade Kessel for a couple of picks that end up being 20, 25, and 55.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

     

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I'm going to go with Canucks. I would not have said this 2 months ago. But with aging Sedins, Kesler wanting out, a new G.M and President coming all while Torts has 4 years left on his deal. Hard to beleive not too long ago they had both Schneider and Luongo. They need a new direction, new players and a culture change there.

    Toronto at least has Kessel, Kadri,Bozak,JVR,Lupul and while Phaneuf takes a lot of heat, I don't think he's as bad as people think and tend to think theres a little whipping boy thing going on there. Gunnarsson,Reilly and Gardiner arent that bad...I fully expect Bernier and Clarkson to be better next year.

     



    Ditto, but I really hope that Randy learned his lesson as well where ever he goes. You can't have a coach so willingly to throw his own players under the bus.Especially your most important one. As far as I'm concerned that was the downfall right there. It all started in the HBO 24/7 series when he told both players on camera that he was scratching them. I think he lost his team after that.

     



    I only recall him throwing Reimer under the bus and maybe Kadri,never heard him say a bad word about Phat Phil or Phaneuf.



    That's just it. You never see Quenneville, Babcock or Julien doing this. You don't need to publicly embarrass anyone to make a point. Did Julien embarrass Lucic last year when he scratched him? Did he embarrass Thomas to the media back in 2010 when he gave Rask the #1 job? No he didn't. He kept it in house and within the "family". No matter how much he was pressed, or asked about it. A coach who throws his players around to the media is someone who's not willing to accept his own responsibility for his mistakes. Doesn't matter if it's the 4th liner or the 8th dman. You don't need to do it to anybody.



    I agree %100 percent Nite,i just thought when you used plural that he called more than one player out and i couldn't recall it.It seemed it was always Reimer and i didn't care for it either.



    Oh sorry bro I misunderstood,  there's certainly Reimer which imo was the worse. Kadri is another who I can't stand (Daddy's boy) other dmen not named Dion. But, I can't remember who the 2 guys were in the HBO special were. But, regardless of who it is. I just don't think it's right. You want to talk about the team as a whole? That's fine, but when you pick out individual's I think is unprofessional and you deserve to have your team lose respect.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    Canucks.

    They hired a coach who loves to chip n' chase and shotblock without the personnel to do so.

    Tortorella was a bad fit for this team. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    Canucks.

    They hired a coach who loves to chip n' chase and shotblock without the personnel to do so.

    Tortorella was a bad fit for this team. 



    Perfectly summed up.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49thparallel. Show 49thparallel's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I don't know guys. The Leafs have a bunch of UFA (Bolland, MayRay, Kuleman,McClement) and RFAs(Gardner, Franson) and all the money is sucked up by the long-term deals of 81,Dion, Clarkson, JVR, Lupul, Bozak and Gleason. I don't think there's enough money to replace half the team and that is what they need to do in my opninion.

    Then again, that is the same predicament with Van. Core all signed long-term. But the VAn defense is much better I think plus there is a bit of hope with Kassian and Horvat. I think the Canucks have to discard less  than the Leafs.

    I say the Leafs are worse off but with the edge in goal.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    Booth and finger biter Burrows locked n loaded for a few more years.

    I love the CannedDucks situation!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I'm going to disagree with most and say the Leafs are a bigger mess, and I think it's by a long shot. Both teams are bad, but I get the feeling that the Canucks are going to accept a rebuild, and the Leafs are going to be stuck in the "playoff bubble purgatory," for a long time.

    The leafs have some nice assets. A high scoring winger, a nice young center in Kadri, and a minutes eater in Phaneuf, but that doesn't tell the story. They have a lot of long, bad contracts. Where the canucks have some players where a GM might say "like the player, don't like the contract, but I can live with it," I think the leafs have a lot of players where GMs would say "like the player, hate the contract, too risky." Whatever you may think of these players, the leafs are never going to contend for anything with Kessel, Phaneuf, Kadri, and co as their core. I think they were actually way worse than the standings lead people to believe. Their possessions stats were bottom five in the NHL. 

     

    Now the Canucks are a different story. They could get an absolute haul for Kesler, a player like that signed for 5 mill per season is unbelievably attractive, and I agree with some that say Washington could be a great trade partner. I think the Sedin's wouldn't get as much as they would have a couple years ago, but are very tradeable, as their contracts are far from terrible at 4 yeas 7 per. I think the Islanders could make a very interesting trade partner there. Trade those three guys and you get some high end young players, and some good draft picks to aid a rebuild, and all of a sudden they have a ton of draft capital and cap flexibility. They'll be fine by 2015-2016, Leafs are stuck in a bad spot for a while.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    I'm going to disagree with most and say the Leafs are a bigger mess, and I think it's by a long shot. Both teams are bad, but I get the feeling that the Canucks are going to accept a rebuild, and the Leafs are going to be stuck in the "playoff bubble purgatory," for a long time.

    The leafs have some nice assets. A high scoring winger, a nice young center in Kadri, and a minutes eater in Phaneuf, but that doesn't tell the story. They have a lot of long, bad contracts. Where the canucks have some players where a GM might say "like the player, don't like the contract, but I can live with it," I think the leafs have a lot of players where GMs would say "like the player, hate the contract, too risky." Whatever you may think of these players, the leafs are never going to contend for anything with Kessel, Phaneuf, Kadri, and co as their core. I think they were actually way worse than the standings lead people to believe. Their possessions stats were bottom five in the NHL. 

     

    Now the Canucks are a different story. They could get an absolute haul for Kesler, a player like that signed for 5 mill per season is unbelievably attractive, and I agree with some that say Washington could be a great trade partner. I think the Sedin's wouldn't get as much as they would have a couple years ago, but are very tradeable, as their contracts are far from terrible at 4 yeas 7 per. I think the Islanders could make a very interesting trade partner there. Trade those three guys and you get some high end young players, and some good draft picks to aid a rebuild, and all of a sudden they have a ton of draft capital and cap flexibility. They'll be fine by 2015-2016, Leafs are stuck in a bad spot for a while.



    I don't agree with who's in the worse spot, but your trading partners maybe possibilities, but I don't think you'll see a lot of players that have NMC's willing to move to the Island until that whole ownership mess is settled. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    I'd say the Canucks' state is the inferior of the two. They've been on a slippery downward slope since the Bruins beat them for the Cup. The Lerfs, this year notwithstanding, seem to be on a more competitive, slightly more upward trajectory after years of not making the playoffs until last year. Avantage Toronto Maybe Next Years. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spike77. Show Spike77's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    I'd say the Canucks are in worse shape. They've been on a slippery downward slope since the Bruins beat them for the Cup. The Lerfs, this year notwithstanding, seem to be on a more competitive, slightly more upward trajectory after years of not making the playoffs until last year. Avantage Toronto Maybe Next Years. 



    I agree ,the Canucks thought they were okay this year but now they realize there going nowhere .There starting all over  Stuck with a coach they can't afford to fire

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Bigger mess: Leafs or Canucks?

    In response to Spike77's comment:

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    I'd say the Canucks are in worse shape. They've been on a slippery downward slope since the Bruins beat them for the Cup. The Lerfs, this year notwithstanding, seem to be on a more competitive, slightly more upward trajectory after years of not making the playoffs until last year. Avantage Toronto Maybe Next Years. 



    I agree ,the Canucks thought they were okay this year but now they realize there going nowhere .There starting all over  Stuck with a coach they can't afford to fire



    Spike, I smile every time I recall ex-Leaf assistant GM Bill Watters speaking on his hockey segment on AM 640 here in Toronto giving his prognosis prior to the final. His quote was "Frankly, I don't see where the Bruins belong on the same ice as these guys." Yeah, okay. The Bruins have looked out their private plane window to see the Canucks free-falling towards the earth below.

    Naming favourite son Linden may be a good start towards soothing their fan base particularly their season ticket holders. Let's see what impact he has on the direction of the team. 

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share