Boychuk to Valuable

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Boychuk to Valuable

    Here is my argument for not trading Boychuk.


    Looking over CapGeek we have a lot of guys that will have to prove themselves before next year ends.


    If David Krejci wants a big contract he will have to earn it this year. Or they will trade him for someone who will get it done and save us some money.


    Chris Kelly is probably only here to groom the young wingers and centers. He is good at that. With Thorton gone you will need something like that this year at least and then he will free up space for a cap friendly young on the books.


    We already know Caron is just being set up for a trade. 


    Marchand and Lucic will have to produce in the Playoffs this year or they will be freeing up cap space.


    We know we are not bringing in anything from free agency at all and that we will be trading Bartowski and Caron and bag a pucks for something third rated. Who else could be traded will depend on what will come back and if it will create another hole. I think that makes Chris Kelly vulnerable. It also makes Marchand vulnerable if one of these kids comes out and lights it up. Lucic remains safe for his size and physical game. 


    That brings us to Boychuk who I believe with an aging Chara you will NEED to have through all the transition. Mcquaid will be traded and Bart is gone. You will have young guys on defense and until Hamilton is ready for number one duty with Seidenberg you have to keep Boychuk. I don't see any other affordable options on the market. Even it is the right now mentality you need Boychuk to bring consistency right now. I am a huge fan of the guy. Miller, Krug, Hamilton are the real deals but if Chara slips you will need Sids and Boy to keep the young guys together as you find the NUMBER ONE guy again. Chara traded next year would give you cap space for sure. Do we really believe we can get four or five more years out of him. Please do not get me wrong Chara is my favorite defensemen in the league but at some point he will be too slow to keep up and will we have a David Ortiz situation for the good and bad of that whole thing. I am curious how crazy I sound. But I would rather see Marchand or Krejci go over Boychuk. I think he is far more important to the master plan. Okay let the arrows fly.


    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    any scenario in which Chara gets traded, I'm against.  Are you saying Boychuk is more valuable than Chara?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Mac, some interesting points but a couple of things to consider:


    1. JB is a 3-4 D man and second pairing D men are never "too valuable" for a team to move.


    2. Chara has shown no signs of "slipping." He was a Norris finalist last season after all


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    I think Chara is slipping.

    It's a testimony to how good and how valuable the big man is that he can begin slipping and still contend for the Norris for the next few year.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Chara is slipping.

    It's a testimony to how good and how valuable the big man is that he can begin slipping and still contend for the Norris for the next few year.

     [/QUOTE]


    Not so sure. Last year was a bit of an anomaly. Long playoff drive the year before, Olympic year, playing with 4 youngins. Yet he still captained the team to a President's trophy, second best defensive team, and Norris contention.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Like I said I am not against Chara. I think he is still the best but not to consider how long that will keep going at the Price tag is an Ortiz dilemma in my mind. He is only 4 million in the last year. I am just looking at the numbers and from a business stand point  isn't boychuk the cheaper and more reasonable solution. 

    Here is another thought. I think Seidenberg can carry this defense. What do you think? I am such a huge fan of all three guys. I am sorry I want all three to stay and I would rather keep them together then mess with a good thing on Defense. 

    Keep all three and trade forwards is how I see it.

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Overall, Mac, I disagree with your hierarchy of needs for this team.  For example, unless his hands completely desert him, I think Lucic is a career Bruin and a cornerstone of how the team plays.  No way does he go for "cap space."  But even more to the point, I really disagree with any obsession with opening up cap space.  Cap space is useless unless you can use it on players that are better value than the guys who left that space open.  And when you say they'll move Krejci for someone who can do what DK does for less, I'm wondering "and who is that?" 

    The Bruins don't need cap space, they need to find a way to ice the best possible roster.  When we talk about cap space needed in order to sign good players, it's the players that matter, not the space.  If you have no room at the deadline and there's no player out there who would be an upgrade on what you have, then who cares?

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Macfact's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said I am not against Chara. I think he is still the best but not to consider how long that will keep going at the Price tag is an Ortiz dilemma in my mind. He is only 4 million in the last year. I am just looking at the numbers and from a business stand point  isn't boychuk the cheaper and more reasonable solution. 

    Here is another thought. I think Seidenberg can carry this defense. What do you think? I am such a huge fan of all three guys. I am sorry I want all three to stay and I would rather keep them together then mess with a good thing on Defense. 

    Keep all three and trade forwards is how I see it.

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

    [/QUOTE]

    Boychuk is not Chara.  He will never be the solution to the same problem that Chara is the solution to.  He is cheaper for a reason.  I think he's probably fairly paid for what he brings.  He will likely be overpaid if he goes to the open market.  I think Chiarelli can bring him in before that happens for a price that isn't as outlandish.
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    And as much as we all love Chara and as good as he is to say that he is not slowing down a bit and showing signs of his age is not realistic. He has a good cast of characters behind him that can cover up the mistakes which are few but lets be honest there were some real doozeys this year. But it is true Olympics and playoffs he has a right to be tired. I could not do it. I am not say trade him this year by the way the argument is to keep Boychuk when and if it happens as a safety valve.

     

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Macfact's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Like I said I am not against Chara. I think he is still the best but not to consider how long that will keep going at the Price tag is an Ortiz dilemma in my mind. He is only 4 million in the last year. I am just looking at the numbers and from a business stand point  isn't boychuk the cheaper and more reasonable solution. 

    Here is another thought. I think Seidenberg can carry this defense. What do you think? I am such a huge fan of all three guys. I am sorry I want all three to stay and I would rather keep them together then mess with a good thing on Defense. 

    Keep all three and trade forwards is how I see it.

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

    [/QUOTE]


    No offense Mac but if I had to choose between Chara and Seidenerg to carry the defense to me the choice is obvious: Chara. Hell, any D man can go as long as he is back there. His worth to this team should be beyond dispute for the moment.

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Book you are 100 percent right about your evaluation of the cap space and so well put I could not believe you could come up with that in a flash. I agree. 

    I am not putting more value on Boychuk then Chara. And I see your point and not being as eloquent I am not getting my point across. My heirarchy is not any different then any red blooded bruins fan.

    I said Lucic is much more likely to stay then Marchand but there is a lot talk about speed from management and he is not fast. But likely he will be career bruin as he fits all the boxes for physical play and l love it. 

    This is a question? Is Krejci replaceable right now? in your mind.

    I am also not saying Chara will not help the team with all the key components of transitioning to the young players or another number one. My concern is simply he is an expensive solution for that transition in the future and you will have wished you held on to a Boychuk for that transition. In my humble opinion.

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    I, too, have thought about moving Chara, and it is easy to look at the highest paid guys when you are in a Cap Crunch.  This is what I've come up with...

    1. Defenseman age like fine wine.  Yes, he will lose a step but he unlike any other D has that enormous wing span.  So, he will slowdown much less than the typical Dman as long as he maintains his strength in his hands and arms.

    2.  You will have to replace Chara.  A second pairing Dman is starting to go for 5+ million in this league which is not too far off Chara. 

    3. Its a safe bet that Chara will be elite the next 2 years and at least very effective in the final 2 years.  He is a bargain at 4 million in that 4th year.

    4.  He was not himself this past playoffs due to an injured hand/wrist which I think he suffered on the very first shift in the Montreal series.

    The Bruins at the moment just need to dump salary so they can reup kRug and Smith.  Boychuk for future draft picks or a bottom 6 is more recoverable than losing Chara.

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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    I am not taking offense guys and know this is polite debate. Again I love all three guys. I think Seidenberg does not get the credit he deserves either. And I think books point if there is no one better to replace you do not need cap space. 

    Again I just all three to stay. 

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Good point Lucdufour. Very good point. Replacing him may cost you 7 to 8 million so his contract is very freindly. I see the point. Sorry for ever suggesting Chara guys. But Sometimes I need you all to straighten me out. I leave it to you experts. 

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    So come up with a way or reason they should keep Boychuk he is too valuable to leave. And every indication is that he may just do that.. I hate it.

    Bobby Orr, Ray Bourque, Patrice Bergeron traditions die hard in Boston

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    PC is not going to get Boychuk in at Seidenberg money...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. A choice of trading Kelly or Boychuk to free up space to go under the cap in October, Kelly all day. Boychuk can be traded at the deadline if need be. Johnny B has more value in trade now though.

     

    "Chris Kelly is probably only here to groom the young wingers and centers."

    Hopefully not teach the young-ins how a goal dies on your stick in while open in the slot. Dig the puck out of the corner at both ends, faceoffs and being found by your defenseman in the Dzone...yes Kelly is great.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    PC is not going to get Boychuk in at Seidenberg money...NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. A choice of trading Kelly or Boychuk to free up space to go under the cap in October, Kelly all day. Boychuk can be traded at the deadline if need be. Johnny B has more value in trade now though.

     

    "Chris Kelly is probably only here to groom the young wingers and centers."

    Hopefully not teach the young-ins how a goal dies on your stick in while open in the slot. Dig the puck out of the corner at both ends, faceoffs and being found by your defenseman in the Dzone...yes Kelly is great.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bingo!

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from socca10. Show socca10's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    Everyone says Chara is slowing down. Can someone please show me evidence that he was ever fast? Is there any reason he needs to be a speed-demon? He's not exactly flat-footed, and he has a 123' reach that makes up for a lot, and he's a beast to play against. 

    I think people say he's 37, and think he *has* to be slowing down, and even though there's nothing statistical to point to that conclusion, folks claim their eyes are telling them he's slowing down. I don't see it. They don't nominate has-beens to be Norris Trophy finalists.

    If you're basing your judgment on the playoffs, I'd argue he was less effective than usual, possibly because of his injured wrist and possibly because the smurfs repeatedly ran at his knees (in both series, but more specifically in the Montreal series).

    Not trying to live in the glorious past here, but I think news of Chara's demise are greatly exaggerated. This dude can still bring it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Macfact's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Marchand and Lucic will have to produce in the Playoffs this year or they will be freeing up cap space.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lucic isn't going anywhere. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    I think Bruins fans are going to be in for a painful dose of reality when #33 isn't on that blueline any more.  

    The 5 or 6 other defensmen in Boston currently fall under one of two categories:

    1. They are the guy paired with Chara, which is great in so many ways.  They've never had a better partner to cover their mistakes, cover 2/3rds of the defensive zone, stick up for them, and allow them to play a simple game.

    2. They aren't paired with Chara and they don't have to log the big minutes, double shift, face the opposing top lines, or get dragged out in every special teams situation.

    I'd like to prolong Life After Chara (LAC) for as long as possible, whether he's slipping or not. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I'd like to prolong Life After Chara (LAC) for as long as possible, whether he's slipping or not. 

    [/QUOTE]

    No worries about this. He isn't going anywhere until he retires

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    "Chris Kelly is probably only here to groom the young wingers and centers."

    Hopefully not teach the young-ins how a goal dies on your stick in while open in the slot.

    [/QUOTE]

    That made me laugh.

    Chris Kelly's Hockey School - where goals go to die.

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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    mac, i think you've gone too far with your assumptions. I also think you way over value boychuk. He's a good second pairing guy that could probably be a number 2 on bad teams. Keep in mind that when he looks good, he's normally playing with Chara. I also think the assumption that Bartkowski is going to be traded is unfounded. It's possible, but I think the Bruins really like Bartkowski. He plays a hard position to learn and I think positionally in his own zone, he has his share of things to work on, but it's the kind of thing that when he gets it, he gets it, and it's a pretty rapid improvement. He's a very skilled, relatively tough D man who can push the puck up in transition very well, which is how the Bruins want to generate their speed through the neutral zone. Think of when Boychuk first started in Boston, he was a lot like Bartkowski. A lot to like but made some very frustrating mental mistakes frequently. The Bruins showed some faith, and they were rewarded when he figured it out positionally. Personally, I want Bartkowski to be given a little more time to figure it out.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Bruins fans are going to be in for a painful dose of reality when #33 isn't on that blueline any more.  

    The 5 or 6 other defensmen in Boston currently fall under one of two categories:

    1. They are the guy paired with Chara, which is great in so many ways.  They've never had a better partner to cover their mistakes, cover 2/3rds of the defensive zone, stick up for them, and allow them to play a simple game.

    2. They aren't paired with Chara and they don't have to log the big minutes, double shift, face the opposing top lines, or get dragged out in every special teams situation.

    I'd like to prolong Life After Chara (LAC) for as long as possible, whether he's slipping or not. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe Hamilton will be ready to be a #1 by then.  Hey, it's unlikely, but it's not impossible!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Boychuk to Valuable

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     He plays a hard position to learn and I think positionally in his own zone, he has his share of things to work on, but it's the kind of thing that when he gets it, he gets it, and it's a pretty rapid improvement. He's a very skilled, relatively tough D man who can push the puck up in transition very well, which is how the Bruins want to generate their speed through the neutral zone.

    [/QUOTE]

    ...who has yet to score a regular season goal. Tough to do when playing 19mins a night. Boychuk was light years ahead of Bart in production and physicality at both the AHL and NHL when he first played.

     

     

     

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