Bruin Organizational Logic

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Bruin Organizational Logic

    Let's hold back Tuukka Rask this year - we're already paying Thomas $5 million.

    Let's hold back Tyler Seguin - we're already paying Bergeron, Savard and Krejci $15 million.

    If we don't hold them back it will throw our salary structure all out of wack - these guys are too good.

    Once you understand this, you will understand why this season has gone the way it has.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Bruin Organizational Logic:
    Let's hold back Tuukka Rask this year - we're already paying Thomas $5 million. Let's hold back Tyler Seguin - we're already paying Bergeron, Savard and Krejci $15 million. If we don't hold them back it will throw our salary structure all out of wack - these guys are too good. Once you understand this, you will understand why this season has gone the way it has.
    Posted by Wheatskins

    You know Seguin gets the rookie max right?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    In Response to Bruin Organizational Logic : You know Seguin gets the rookie max right?
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Not talking about this year. If Rask and Seguin are allowed to shine now, they will command top dollar in two and three years time.

    The Bruins are on the hook for a number of years with Thomas, Bergeron, Savard, Chara and maybe Kaberle, if signed.  They also will have Krejci and Horton coming up again and a few others.

    The longer they surpress Rask and Seguin, the less they will have to pay them later. It is their only chip.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    There is nothing to base this on.  They let Rask emerg last year when they had a vezina goalie already.  Rask has been simply out-played by Thomas.  And if not for his draft position and age combo, Seguin wouldn't be on the team this year.  He would have been sent back to Junior or in the minors.  His overall game has been terrible.  It also makes no sense to hold someone back in the first year of their contract.  Are they going to hold him back for 3 years?  If he excells in year 3 he will command big bucks regardless.  The Bruins will make a fortune if they win the Stanley Cup, so nothing will come in the way of that.  If it made more sense to play those players more, they would do it.  Also, to say that the Bruins use of Rask has in some way negatively impacted the Bruins season has no foundation since they have been playing the leagues best goaltender in his place.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Uh oh!  Don't bring up this topic, otherwise you'll have 30 fanboys on you for being objective and talking about the elephant in the room with regards to Chia's allocation of salary under the cap.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Uh, this isn't being objective.  This is seeking conspiracy explanations.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    By definition, neither side of this discussion is being objective.  When you are stating opinion on the Bruins intentions, you are being subjective.  You are using the word 'objective' to imply that the opinion stated is superior, but it doesn't apply.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    For those who said Thomas's contract was an albatross were dead wrong he gets 3Mil his last year 2013 great move as Tim is only owed 8Mil after the end of this season. Per the usual I expect PC to deal with Krejci and Rask in October like he did with Bergeron and Chara. Krejci around 4-4.25Mil for 3 years and Rask around 3Mil for 3 years.

    The Bruins will have 20Mil to spend the summer of 2013 when both Krejci and Rask's new contracts go into effect. Lucic's contract isn't up until the end of 2013 he's an RFA so PC controls his rights. In my view PC is sitting pretty with Spooner, Knight, Arniel, Sauve, Caron, Alexandrov, Khudobin and 2011 TOs 1st rounder all under rookie contracts.

    As far as Seguin and Rask getting enough playing time or being groomed correctly ? That is also on Chiarelli who needs to step in and speak with Julien his coaching hire...
     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    There is a salary cap in this league.  It doesn't matter  if you want to try to spin away or deflect from the reality that it is a cap league.

    Pretending what the OP's premise is isn't a factor means you aren't being honest about it.

    You have to ask if the money allocated reflects the production and the synergy with the personnel.

    It's more than a fair question.

    Please stop referencing prospects names, too. I can't think of a prospect in the last 10 years or more who has spent time in the minors only to develop into a top rate NHL player.

    You sound like Yankee fans who continuously overrate every prospect they have on the farm.




     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    It is fine to state what may be a factor in decisions, but to state what is a factor, or what is the deciding factor, is purely speculative on everone's part.  As far as players who spent time in minors and then went on to become top NHLers, well check out the current 4th and 5th leading scorers in the league.  The entire Bruins line up, including the Vezina and Norris winners, with the exception of a few like Seguin and Lucic also had minor-league time.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    Rask has been over played this season.
    Posted by tukka_fall

    Another wasted post from the wino.Hey,how does TT taste?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    There is a salary cap in this league.  It doesn't matter  if you want to try to spin away or deflect from the reality that it is a cap league. Pretending what the OP's premise is isn't a factor means you aren't being honest about it. You have to ask if the money allocated reflects the production and the synergy with the personnel. It's more than a fair question. Please stop referencing prospects names, too. I can't think of a prospect in the last 10 years or more who has spent time in the minors only to develop into a top rate NHL player. You sound like Yankee fans who continuously overrate every prospect they have on the farm.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Alternatively, pretending the OP's premise is a factor could mean you are just looking for excuses to continue to hate the FO (as an extension of ownership).

    Feel free to disagree with the way those two are being handled, but claiming it is to save money in the future is just silly.  Beyond silly, even.  Rask was allowed to play last year, even though he was still on a EL contract and that meant he could earn (and did earn) bonuses.  Marchand is certainly earning a pay bump with all his ice time this year.  Kessel only really had one year with big production, and that got him a big contract.  What Seguin does now won't matter nearly as much as what he does in two years.

    Look, most people aren't calling Chiarelli the best thing since sliced cheese.  He gets ragged on for some contracts.  He's made mistakes.  But you cannot evaluate him in a vacuum.  You have to look at whether his decisions at the time made sense.  What's more, he needs to be evaluated against other GMs.  I think you will have a tough time finding a GM that hasn't given out at least one contract that now looks bad, made one trade he wishes he could undue.  That's just the nature of hockey, sometimes things just don't work out.  Not expecting perfection isn't being a fanboy or blind, it is being realistic and objective.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Isn't that what we just talked about, though?

    Look, Thomas is an aberration. He traveled the world playinng in various leagues before ascending into what he is today.

    Lucic has evolved well.  Ok.  Kreicji is another example, but are these guys top/high echelon players that the team draft and developed?

    No. And I like what Lucic and Kreijci bring to the table. A lot.

    Even Rask was not a Bruin pick, so you can't even say they developed him.

    What I am talking about is an All Star player who somehow rises from the system as a draft pick.  Everyone raves about the Bruins draft picks, but the reality is, this organization has not had one of their own, that has developed into a star.

    So, referencing the Hammill's, Arniels, etc, is pointless.  Chia is not "sitting pretty" whatsoever with his names in the minors.

    He's sitting pretty if his main goal is to tell everyone he is sitting pretty every offseason after a Round 1 or 2 exit.

    I understand his philosophy is to keep the stream a fluid thing so there are no lulls or setbacks in the future, which is great, but when you aren't building a team that is a legit cup contender, that's a problem.

    And that problem could very well be 1,2,3 bloated contracts.

    There is no way on earth this team goes anywhere with their Special Teams as mediocre as this.

    As for Chiarelli, he's a mediocre GM without a past, proven track record.  That's a fact.  It's not an opinion.  He was an assistant in Ottawa.

    Here, he's been solid, but nothing more.

    I would fire Chiarelli tomorrow if it meant hiring a Jim Rutherford or someone like that here.

    Pay Rutherford more than what he gets in Carolina and get him in here.




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Bruin Organizational Logic:
    Let's hold back Tuukka Rask this year - we're already paying Thomas $5 million. Let's hold back Tyler Seguin - we're already paying Bergeron, Savard and Krejci $15 million. If we don't hold them back it will throw our salary structure all out of wack - these guys are too good. Once you understand this, you will understand why this season has gone the way it has.
    Posted by Wheatskins


    I can't say that thought hasn't crossed my mind Wheatkings. It may have been the reason they went with Thomas so long last year as well before they finally had to give Rask the job.

    I really hope it isn't the case but there are certainly signs of this with the way certain guys have been handled. The less they play the less they make in there next contracts. Sounds crazy but it may play a factor in what we have seen.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    Isn't that what we just talked about, though? Look, Thomas is an aberration. He traveled the world playinng in various leagues before ascending into what he is today. Lucic has evolved well.  Ok.  Kreicji is another example, but are these guys top/high echelon players that the team draft and developed? No. And I like what Lucic and Kreijci bring to the table. A lot. Even Rask was not a Bruin pick, so you can't even say they developed him. What I am talking about is an All Star player who somehow rises from the system as a draft pick.  Everyone raves about the Bruins draft picks, but the reality is, this organization has not had one of their own, that has developed into a star. So, referencing the Hammill's, Arniels, etc, is pointless.  Chia is not "sitting pretty" whatsoever with his names in the minors. He's sitting pretty if his main goal is to tell everyone he is sitting pretty every offseason after a Round 1 or 2 exit. I understand his philosophy is to keep the stream a fluid thing so there are no lulls or setbacks in the future, which is great, but when you aren't building a team that is a legit cup contender, that's a problem. And that problem could very well be 1,2,3 bloated contracts. There is no way on earth this team goes anywhere with their Special Teams as mediocre as this. As for Chiarelli, he's a mediocre GM without a past, proven track record.  That's a fact.  It's not an opinion.  He was an assistant in Ottawa. Here, he's been solid, but nothing more. I would fire Chiarelli tomorrow if it meant hiring a Jim Rutherford or someone like that here. Pay Rutherford more than what he gets in Carolina and get him in here.
    Posted by BBReigns

    They absolutely developed Rask.The Leafs may have drafted him but he never played in their system.His entire pro career has been with the Bruins organization.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    I can see the argument there.  They didn't draft him, though.

    I am talking draft pick in the minors who becomes All Star caliber. 

    Point taken, though. Add him into the Lucic/Kreicji list of bordering All Star players.

    I think you can see my point though, no?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    If I was GM I might try to hold a player back if it meant I could keep a team together.  That said, history shows that PC has done the exact opposite.  Player in their contract years have been given bigger roles.  Krejci, Kessel, Tuukka, Marchand, Boychuck, and so on.  You can always just trade other players if someone emerges as a star anyway.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Again with factless contradictions Lou Lam took seven years to finally win a cup what was his position before he became a full time GM in NJ ? an assistant. Chiarelli is in his 5th year. Tallon, Holland and Rutherford were all assistant GMs or were in some way shape or form in the front office learning before they became fulltime GMs contradictions continue while being factless as usual you backed up nothing with your assertions.



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    I can see the argument there.  They didn't draft him, though. I am talking draft pick in the minors who becomes All Star caliber.  Point taken, though. Add him into the Lucic/Kreicji list of bordering All Star players. I think you can see my point though, no?
    Posted by BBReigns

    Not sure if you were around for this thread:
    It brings up the interesting observation that league-wide not a whole lot of players do the AHL stint then become All Stars.  As dezaruchi puts it, "the AHL is a good developmental league for future NHL players whereas Major Junior is a developmental league for future stars".

    Might be interesting to take a look at how often players that get returned to juniors after being drafted end up stars.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Please stop using big boy words, Sandog. It won't make you successfully deflect from the facts.

    Chiarelli has no success here yet. 

    If he continues not to break through here, he is absolutely responsible. Period.

    Get over it.  He's not some untouchable employee within the organization.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic : Not sure if you were around for this thread: http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a0d190bb9-6882-4397-9ce1-e66db723d396Discussion%3a28a86837-a2bf-4e1e-9044-0c04f9caeb2e&plckCurrentPage=1 It brings up the interesting observation that league-wide not a whole lot of players do the AHL stint then become All Stars.  As dezaruchi puts it, " the AHL is a good developmental league for future NHL players whereas Major Junior is a developmental league for future stars ". Might be interesting to take a look at how often players that get returned to juniors after being drafted end up stars.
    Posted by DrCC


    Exactly my point. It's incredibly rare, which is why Sandog babbling about Chia "sitting pretty" is beyond laughable.

    Those aren't necesssarily great chips. 

    Sometimes it takes YEARS for an 18 year old draft pick to ascend, and by that time, he probably peaks to AT BEST a 2nd line player.

    It's like Kreicji. Not really a 1st line Centerman, but a nice 2nd line Center for a team.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    If I was GM I might try to hold a player back if it meant I could keep a team together.  That said, history shows that PC has done the exact opposite.  Player in their contract years have been given bigger roles.  Krejci, Kessel, Tuukka, Marchand, Boychuck, and so on.  You can always just trade other players if someone emerges as a star anyway.
    Posted by OatesCam


    Rask and Seguin are not in their contract year. And that is my point.

    So, therefore, noting PC's history we can expect PC to give Rask his chance next year, and Seguin the year after when they are in their last year.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic:
    In Response to Re: Bruin Organizational Logic : Exactly my point. It's incredibly rare, which is why Sandog babbling about Chia "sitting pretty" is beyond laughable. Those aren't necesssarily great chips.  Sometimes it takes YEARS for an 18 year old draft pick to ascend, and by that time, he probably peaks to AT BEST a 2nd line player. It's like Kreicji. Not really a 1st line Centerman, but a nice 2nd line Center for a team.
    Posted by BBReigns

    Well, SanDog can give his take, but I think the Bruins are still in a decent place, prospect-wise, because they have a relatively young core at the NHL level already.  They don't need more great chips so much as fillers that are on entry-level contracts that can play above their salary to complement what they already have.  I think guys like Caron, Sauve and Arniel will fit that bill.  Maybe Alexandrov and Cohen too, but defensemen are a lot trickier to figure out.

    Then there is also Spooner and Knight, who are in Major Juniors so there is hope they are guys that could be stars.  Very early to tell, though people that actually watch them play are giving good reviews.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bruin Organizational Logic

    Too bad all of the draft picks that Parcells brought in for Belichick are gone now what is poor Bill to do now ? You haven't brought any facts as I don't expect a you to know anything about the Bruins farm system nor how the players are developing because you don't care to look or see but compare them to a league that has no salary cap you are all over the place.

    No one here brought up Hamill but that is where you have to throw in how you justify Chiarelli is a failure just as you assert all caps and drafts are the same they are not. You can't argue your way out of it because you simply refuse to give up on your comparisons of apples and oranges.

    "Chiarelli is an assistant" So were your favorite GMs you keep throwing out there. "Thomas is an aberration" still can't give him credit for working hard nope he's a fluke. You exposed yourself on the last two GM threads again by showing nothing with your comments.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share