Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinsfanforever. Show Bruinsfanforever's posts

    Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract


    http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/bos120822.html

    What do you think of this? Do you think the Bruins should extend Ference? Just wanted your thoughts.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : Most d-men take a couple of years in the AHL (at least) before being an NHLer. If one of them does that well that they deserve the slot come mid-season, trade Ference for whatever help is needed at the time.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    But I believe the guys mentioned were Krug, Cross, and Trotman -- none of which have played a few years in the AHL and none of which are ready to replace Ference.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : But I believe the guys mentioned were Krug, Cross, and Trotman -- none of which have played a few years in the AHL and none of which are ready to replace Ference.
    Posted by Fletcher1


    I fully agree with you, if that wasn't clear!

    I meant if those players go to the AHL and really turn it on, then call them up and trade Ference, but Ference shouldn't be 86'd because some kids are turning pro.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : I fully agree with you, if that wasn't clear! I meant if those players go to the AHL and really turn it on, then call them up and trade Ference, but Ference shouldn't be 86'd because some kids are turning pro.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Gotcha.  Agreed.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    He should not be a priority. Soon as that CBA is worked out new deals for Tuuka, Looch & Seguin should come 1st.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract


    what dictates priority and value....., is cap hit.  at just north of 2 mil, AF is a serviceable, reliable, contributing, valuable member of the team.  At 4.something, he's a no talent slug, dragging the group down.  if he can be signed reasonably, there is no reason anyone should ever think this is a bad move.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    The Bruins are already dangerously think on D, with only 5 proven guys signed. It's already a questionable strategy to think that a rookie will play and play well in the 6th spot. If the Bruins don't sign Ference, they will need to sign someone else. I like Ference, so I would be happy with him. My only question would be his tendency to get hurt, and if it will get worse in the next few years.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    I used to hate Ferrence, but over the past 2-3 seasons he has won me over with solid play for a bottom tier D-man and being a great team player who is ready to throw down despite his size.

    However, I for one think that smaller defensemen should at least bring some offensive upside and Ferrence lacks that dimension.  I don't think anybody can argue against the fact that at times Ferrence gets outmuscled around the net and it leads to some goals.  My philosophy is that if you are going to go with a smaller D-man, that will happen at times, but the hope is that some extra offensive ability will make up for the extra goals against.

    Krug and Warsofski are both young guys in the B's system that are known for their offensive upside.  In addition to that, they --like Ferrence, are known as character guys with winning pedigree.  If I were the Bruins, signing Ferrence would not necessarily be my first priority as there is a chance that either of these young guys is able to prove themselves in the AHL this year enough to make the jump.  The Bruins will be fine on D this year, and I would like to think that there will be a pretty good chance of Krug or Warsofski making the jump next year.  The clock is already ticking on Krugs ELC due to his time with the big club last year, so I would like to think that management projects him to be in the NHL sooner than later.  At the same time, if the Bruins sign Ferrence to a reasonable salary and terms, I think others are right to assume that Ferrence will be an easily tradable asset if one of the other guys step up.

    Bottom line: If we are going to have an undersized D-man, I'd prefer it be one who brings some offence to the table.  However nothing wrong with signing Ferrence as long as he isn't looking for too much money or contract years -- being the team first guy that Ferrence has proven to be I don't think he will be asking for the world and I'm hoping that is indeed what is going to happen.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    If one of them does that well that they deserve the slot come mid-season, trade Ference for whatever help is needed at the time.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Exactly. There would be a market for Ference. Solid D-man with a bit of offense who is a good character guy. Only way they could botch it is with a bad contract.


    At this moment, it would be unnecessarily risky to part with a solid contributer to roll the dice with an unproven guy. For any of these AHL'ers, look for them crack the line-up when the inevitable injuries come. They will need to prove they can handle the load before you can part with a d-man.


    Edit: Just browsing through the past few years of stats, I think I over-estimated Ference's contributions.

    2011-2012: 3rd defensemen in points-per-game (ignoring torey krug 2GP)
    2010-2011: 7th defensemen in points-per-game
    2009-2010: 6th defensemen in points-per-game 
    2008-2009: 4th defensemen in points-per-game 
    2007-2008: 4th defensemen in points-per-game


    +/-
    2011-2012: 6th 
    2010-2011: 3rd 
    2009-2010: 9th  (brutal, -7)
    2008-2009: 7th  
    2007-2008: 10th (dead last, -14)


    Time on Ice per game
    2011-2012: 4th 
    2010-2011: 5th 
    2009-2010: 4th 
    2008-2009: 3rd 
    2007-2008: 3rd 

    Special Teams (Powerplay TOI/G Rank and shorthanded TOI/G Rank)
    2011-2012: 5th and 4th
    2010-2011: 6th and 4th
    2009-2010: 5th and 4th
    2008-2009: 3rd and 3rd
    2007-2008: 4th and 3rd

    So subjectively, you can notice that Ference is at best a 3rd defensemen, but far more often he's the 5th defensemen on the team (4.76), and occasionally much worse. Just browsing some more stats now, but he doesn't even hit or block shots any better than 4th-5th on the team for d-men. His giveaway:takeaway ratio is probably the worst among all defensemen.
     
    Chara: 6.5 million per
    Seidenberg: 3.25 million per
    Boychuck: 3.36 million per
    Adam Mcquaid: 1.56 million per
    Ference: $2.25 million

    I don't know where I'm going with all these numbers, I admit I'm a bit lost, but I guess I just feel he hasn't deserved a raise, perhaps even a slight pay-cut to ~2 million or south of that. None of his contributions are impressive to me outside of the locker-room, and we have plenty of character-guys already so that should not translate into extra $$.

    I'll be o.k. with anything but a pay-raise. 
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    The Bruins have precisely one true defense prospect in Hamilton.  The rest are a mish-mash of college FAs, guys tossed into deals as afterthoughts by other organizations, and late round draft pick longshots.  Other than Hamilton, the Bruins have drafted two D higher than the 5th round - Matt 'vowels' Grzlchk and Ryan Button - since 2007.  Button is all but done as a prospect and is hanging on to have some kind of pro career.  Vowels might as well be a college FA - same set of attributes as the others, but at least he has time to grow.

    It's wishful thinking that O'Gara, Trotman, and Chudinov are better prospects than Reul, Ostracil and Goulet (the trio taken in 2007).  If any of them becomes better than Ference, well, they'll have beaten the same odds Ference did by breaking through as an 8th round pick in 1997.

    Ference has been a lot better than people give him credit for.  Here's some numbers in case you're the kind of person who fixates on the negative when he's on the ice.  Only one player drafted beyond the first round in 1997 has played more games than Ference (unfortunately, it's Matt Cooke).  He's sixth in scoring among D drafted that year, behind Brian Campbell, Joe Corvo, Paul Mara, Eric Brewer, and Scott Hannan. I'd argue that he's more responsible in his own end that the first three, and the fact he skates better than Hannan means he's still going strong where Hannan, who was much more effective pre-lockout, is clinging to a job.  Also, Ference has played 128 fewer games than Brewer, who still gets tagged with the "offensive" label, but Ference has scored only 51 fewer points.  Split that over the 12 years he's been in the NHL full time, and that's about 4.5 fewer points per season.  Last year, Ference was the third leading scorer on the Bruins' blueline with one less point than Corvo and one more than Seidenberg.

    He's not a first pairing D-man, but, with Boychuk and McQuaid, he provides the Bruins with a solid second tier.  You plan to keep a guy like that until someone rips the job from him; you don't plan to let him walk to "make room" for a 5'9" 165lb guy who showed he could really run the PP in the ECAC.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    He doesn't stand out in any category, statistically.  I do like him though. He usually plays in the bottom pairing with the worst defensman during the year, then gets bumped up to the second pairing in the playoffs when CJ condenses the lineup. For me, come playoff time, he's a solid second-pairing defensman. He's also been on a number of lengthy runs with Boston, Calgary and Pittsburgh, playing a significant role every time. I view him as a playoffs-type guy. I wonder how a statistical examination of him for playoffs would look?

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : Exactly. There would be a market for Ference. Solid D-man with a bit of offense who is a good character guy. Only way they could botch it is with a bad contract. At this moment, it would be unnecessarily risky to part with a solid contributer to roll the dice with an unproven guy. For any of these AHL'ers, look for them crack the line-up when the inevitable injuries come. They will need to prove they can handle the load before you can part with a d-man. Edit: Just browsing through the past few years of stats, I think I over-estimated Ference's contributions. 2011-2012: 3rd defensemen in points-per-game (ignoring torey krug 2GP) 2010-2011: 7th defensemen in points-per-game 2009-2010: 6th  defensemen in points-per-game  2008-2009: 4th  defensemen in points-per-game  2007-2008: 4th defensemen in points-per-game +/- 2011-2012: 6th   2010-2011: 3rd   2009-2010: 9th   (brutal, -7) 2008-2009: 7th    2007-2008: 10th  (dead last, -14) Time on Ice per game 2011-2012:  4th   2010-2011:  5th   2009-2010:  4th   2008-2009:  3rd   2007-2008:  3rd   Special Teams (Powerplay TOI/G Rank and shorthanded TOI/G Rank) 2011-2012:  5th and 4th 2010-2011: 6th  and 4th 2009-2010:  5th  and 4th 2008-2009:  3rd  and 3rd 2007-2008:  4th  and 3rd So subjectively, you can notice that Ference is at best  a 3rd defensemen, but far more often he's the 5th defensemen on the team (4.76), and occasionally much worse. Just browsing some more stats now, but he doesn't even hit or block shots any better than 4th-5th on the team for d-men. His giveaway:takeaway ratio is probably the worst among all defensemen.   Chara: 6.5 million per Seidenberg: 3.25 million per Boychuck: 3.36 million per Adam Mcquaid: 1.56 million per Ference: $2.25 million I don't know where I'm going with all these numbers, I admit I'm a bit lost, but I guess I just feel he hasn't deserved a raise, perhaps even a slight pay-cut to ~2 million or south of that. None of his contributions are impressive to me outside of the locker-room, and we have plenty of character-guys already so that should not translate into extra $$. I'll be o.k. with anything but a pay-raise. 
    Posted by Olsonic

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    ...and I'll add Olsonic's point as a Coda - you also don't pay him like a #3D.  I'm okay with a cost of living increase, but not Boychuk money.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    He doesn't stand out in any category, statistically.  I do like him though. He usually plays in the bottom pairing with the worst defensman during the year, then gets bumped up to the second pairing in the playoffs when CJ condenses the lineup. For me, come playoff time, he's a solid second-pairing defensman. He's also been on a number of lengthy runs with Boston, Calgary and Pittsburgh, playing a significant role every time. I view him as a playoffs-type guy. I wonder how a statistical examination of him for playoffs would look? In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract :
    Posted by OatesCam


    Well, in very simple terms, his points/game goes from about 1 ever 4 games to 1 every 3 games, but that's based on a couple of really strong years - the 10point playoffs he had with Pittsburgh when the went to the conference finals in 2001 and the 10 points in the Bruins' cup run.  But he does have a touch of Don Baylor, doesnt' he?  Seems to be in the right place to play a role in long playoff runs fairly regularly.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    Posters on here thought Ference's last pay increase and contract extension was terrible. Andrew went about his business with an added salute to Le Shab fans and got a ring. Boychuk is not more valuable to the Bruins right now but that doesn't mean I think he should paid more an that's because of Ference's age not what he provides Julien.

    If Ference were the same age as Boychuk I think he should get the same money on his contract extension. Boychuk needs to justify his extension over the next few years and be as mistake free as Ference. Not saying Andrew doesn't make any but Johnny coughs it up allot more.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    Big Ference fan, and absolutely a 2-year deal would be nice. He plays well when it matters most.

    I get that it's an inexact science, but I like Boston's chances to win one more playoff round than other teams based on depth guys like Ference, McQuaid, Campbell, Kelly and Peverly. I'd much rather Boston continue to ice a solid core of mid-level talent like these 5 than be a top-heavy team with scrubs rounding out the bottom.

    Plus, McQuaid isn't a given. Not to mention injuries that come out of nowhere. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuck-Hamilton-Ference-McQuaid-Krug look like a nice top 7, and it's not like Ference will get money that isn't moveable at the deadline if the Bs decide they need to shop for other goods.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    Short $ for short D. Like the trade scenario.
    ** Bookboy -careful of the baseball references-you might have somebody on your N( a s s).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    Anyone know how Colby Cohen's season went in the Providence last year? I thought when they aquired him he had a chances to eventually be an NHLer but it seems like he's disappeared.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    Anyone know how Colby Cohen's season went in the Providence last year? I thought when they aquired him he had a chances to eventually be an NHLer but it seems like he's disappeared.
    Posted by Bisson1

    Last I read he had drastically fallen off (listed #30 on the organizations top 30 prospects). Good riddance, he's an egotistical jk-off anyways. He lived with my cousin for a while after the trade to Providence and was, by all other accounts, unecessarily rude.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chlodogger. Show Chlodogger's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    I say "no". I am concerned that that B's keep going back to the well with the same squad, saying, "well, this is the unit that won the Cup." Let this guy play under the motivation of his contract year and see how it goes. He is replaceable in the end.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : Exactly. There would be a market for Ference. Solid D-man with a bit of offense who is a good character guy. Only way they could botch it is with a bad contract. At this moment, it would be unnecessarily risky to part with a solid contributer to roll the dice with an unproven guy. For any of these AHL'ers, look for them crack the line-up when the inevitable injuries come. They will need to prove they can handle the load before you can part with a d-man. Edit: Just browsing through the past few years of stats, I think I over-estimated Ference's contributions.
    Posted by Olsonic


    You watch a lot of hockey, OC.  You know what you see.  Your first opinion is the same as mind.  Solid, unspecatcular, proven NHL defenseman.

    Then you go and debunk yourself with stats.

    Trust your eyes, Luke.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract:
    In Response to Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract : You watch a lot of hockey, OC.  You know what you see.  Your first opinion is the same as mind.  Solid, unspecatcular, proven NHL defenseman. Then you go and debunk yourself with stats. Trust your eyes, Luke.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    lol, I agree that he's serviceable, I'm not dissing him. I like Ference, I think he's a good Bruin and I want him to resign. I am just thinking about what salary I think he deserves given that Claude Julien reliably utilizes him for 4th-5th defensemen minutes.

    Before I started looking @ his numbers, my intial thoughts were, "3 million per". In retrospect, it seems that number would be over-paying. I'd be thrilled to have him on the team @ his current cap number, espcially given the wiggle room we're gonna need to lock up the forwards in the coming season(s).

    The point of the stats were to create a framework to discuss the quality of any contract he signs with the Bruins.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    $2M gets you Joe Corvo.

    $2.25M gets you Greg Zanon.

    I'll take Ference for 1% more of the cap.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Bruins are trying to sign Ference to new contract

    Bingo NAS, and he is intelligent...although it is difficult to statistically prove better than Don Sweeney.   Small smart players both.  
     
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