Bruins Player on PED's?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    Saw 50 guys at the gym today who are just as big.  No reason to suspect PEDs.  Maybe he lifts weights...



    Fletch, why would an athlete have to 'work out'? Its obviously PEDs.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    This is what bothers me. In this thread about PED's we have mentions about Jagr and Horton. Why? Because they arent here anymore. Horton has some muscles. Whoop dee doo. He's a pro athlete who works out and takes care of his body because it is part of his job. Google Zdeno Chara and then find me any Bruin who looks more physically fit than him. There isnt one, but he escapes all ridiculous specualtion because he still wears a Bruins jersey.




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    And as Fletch pointed out one of the most beneficial PEDs a hockey player could use is EPO and it has no outward signs and it sure doesn't make you look ripped. Google Mika Myllyla or Kornelia Marek and take a look at their pics - both notorious dopers who used EPO and were world beaters and they look like a gentle breeze would knock them over.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    right after a concussion that had him incapacitated. muscle atrophes quickly

     

     



    This pic can't be more than about six weeks from his concussion.

     

    Yeah, in six weeks, he shrunk to a normal sized man.

    Here's Horton in September of that year:

    [/QUOTE]

    in six weeks of being completely shut down, he could lose 20 pounds of muscle. that's being conservative. Have you ever been in that situation where you can do absolutely nothing for that long? your body breaks down quickly, and probably even more quickly if you're on PEDs

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

     


    in six weeks of being completely shut down, he could lose 20 pounds of muscle. that's being conservative. Have you ever been in that situation where you can do absolutely nothing for that long? your body breaks down quickly, and probably even more quickly if you're on PEDs

     

     



    Okay, muscles can atrophy, got it.  But Horton was never all that big.  Just looked fit to me.  As kel suggests, I never heard any accusations while he was here.  His build and muscles are about what you'd except for a larger framed professional athlete.  Nothing more.

     

    And as red mentions, size of muscles is moot with EPO.

    Here is a picture of a notorious PED doper, and Boston native.  Banned from cycling.  Jacked huh?  

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    Leave poor Tyler Hamilton alone.  Drugs or no finsihing the tour and even winning a stage with a broken collar bone is quite the deed.  And they were checking him and there was no was he could have gotten away with pain killers, the other stuff you can fool them.

     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    Leave poor Tyler Hamilton alone.  Drugs or no finishing the tour and even winning a stage with a broken collar bone is quite the deed.  And they were checking him and there was no was he could have gotten away with pain killers, the other stuff you can fool them.

     



    1. I'm not picking on him. I was showing a picture of his physique to dispute the notion that PED users have to be jacked.

    2. I could pick on him.  Forget the one broken collar bone Tour scenario.  He took enough PEDs to kill an elephant and he did it consistently throughout his career.

    3. But I also respect him for being one of the earliest whistle blowers on Lance (though clearly self serving in that), and then being demonized for smearing the great one.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:



    in six weeks of being completely shut down, he could lose 20 pounds of muscle. that's being conservative. Have you ever been in that situation where you can do absolutely nothing for that long? your body breaks down quickly, and probably even more quickly if you're on PEDs



    I was shut down for a while with a broken leg and a broken ankle.  I'm not sure how that's relevant.  Suggesting that he's skinnier/weaker/thinner or whatever in this picture because he was immobilized for a little while due to a concussion is absurd.

    You don't have an ounce of proof or even a reason to speculate that Horton was using anything illegal.  Digging a deeper hole isn't going to help.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    Guys who ride bicycles on PEDs.  There's only one thing less interesting in sports than that.  You know what it is?  Guys who cross country ski on PEDs.*

     

     

     

     

    *women's hockey is really #1, but we're talking about men here.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Guys who ride bicycles on PEDs.  There's only one thing less interesting in sports than that.  You know what it is?  Guys who cross country ski on PEDs.*

     

     

    *women's hockey is really #1, but we're talking about men here.



    You don't like freezing your nuts off on the side of a mountain for three hours to watch a guy in tights ski by for 10 seconds?

    I actually like both on tv.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?


    HGH would very helpful to NHL players as it would help w/ a much quicker recovery period from injuries.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    This is what bothers me. In this thread about PED's we have mentions about Jagr and Horton. Why? Because they arent here anymore. Horton has some muscles. Whoop dee doo. He's a pro athlete who works out and takes care of his body because it is part of his job. Google Zdeno Chara and then find me any Bruin who looks more physically fit than him. There isnt one, but he escapes all ridiculous specualtion because he still wears a Bruins jersey.

    You know what bother me.  When people can't read, or choose to ignore things for the sake of their argument.  "I would have to think that there has to be at least one current player on some flintstones.  Seidenberg?  Chara?  Thornton?  What do you think?"

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    Quick read here.  Interesting article on the ineffectivenes of current testing regulations and to do it right would require significant change.



    http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/australian-study-suggests-anti-doping-problems-doomed-to-fail-072513

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to hangnail's comment:

    Quick read here.  Interesting article on the ineffectivenes of current testing regulations and to do it right would require significant change.



    http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/australian-study-suggests-anti-doping-problems-doomed-to-fail-072513



    The cops aren't going to catch every burglar either - doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to hangnail's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Quick read here.  Interesting article on the ineffectivenes of current testing regulations and to do it right would require significant change.



    http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/australian-study-suggests-anti-doping-problems-doomed-to-fail-072513

     



    The cops aren't going to catch every burglar either - doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    True red but the impact on society of a PED user vs a criminal are two totally different things.  How much time, money, and human resources can be allotted to go after a pill popper who is not breaking any laws?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    "Impact on society" is based on the role that our "athlete-heroes" play, vs. the role that "criminals" play.  We know that there are criminals out there -- none of them are role models and we want them to be caught.

    Our athlete-role models, are quite a different thing.  We look up to them, we hope that they are honest, and represent our teams properly.  When they are caught doing something illegal or unethical, our dismay is great, because we HOPED that they were good and honest.  The realization that they weren't causes us to lose faith (see Aaron Rodgers' reaction to Ryan Braun).  The expenditure of effort to catch the cheaters is because we want/expect athletics to be contested on a "level playing field" (whatever that means these days).

    I would not be very surprised to find that the use of PEDs, in many different forms, was widespread in the NHL.  Enforcers want arm/core strength.  Speed wingers want explosive "sprinters' start" power in their legs.  Superstars want endurance.  Different PEDs will help all these different player-types, with differing ease-of-detection.  As mentioned by many posters, EPO, which enhances endurance, won't manifest itself by altering physical appearance.

    Of course, we haven't even mentioned blood-doping, which doesn't even show up at all, unless you continuously monitor red blood cell counts.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to 49-North's comment:

     As mentioned by many posters, EPO, which enhances endurance, won't manifest itself by altering physical appearance.

    Of course, we haven't even mentioned blood-doping, which doesn't even show up at all, unless you continuously monitor red blood cell counts.

     



    EPO is blood doping.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    We're also mixing up public money vs. private money here.  I agree that there shouldn't be a lot of public, tax payer money going towards PEDs.  Use that for fighting real crime.  But I think the sports themselves should invest heavily in cracking down on PED use.  Baseball and cycling have lost countless millions of $$, fans, future players, and the repsect of the public in general due to their massive drug scandals.

    The NHL should be eager to avoid this and protect the integrity of their product.  It wouldn't be all that expensive to implement a simple testing program.  The NHL should move on this all by themselves.  Let football and baseball bare the weight of PEDs and all of the ugly fallout.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    If George Laraque is correct in this article, then we should see a drop-off in production, as well as weight loss for this year's Olympic players.  Sounds like the league just looks the other way.



    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2011/11/05/sp-laraque-nhl.html

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to MeanE's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    This is what bothers me. In this thread about PED's we have mentions about Jagr and Horton. Why? Because they arent here anymore. Horton has some muscles. Whoop dee doo. He's a pro athlete who works out and takes care of his body because it is part of his job. Google Zdeno Chara and then find me any Bruin who looks more physically fit than him. There isnt one, but he escapes all ridiculous specualtion because he still wears a Bruins jersey.

     

     

    You know what bother me.  When people can't read, or choose to ignore things for the sake of their argument.  "I would have to think that there has to be at least one current player on some flintstones.  Seidenberg?  Chara?  Thornton?  What do you think?"

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Seidenberg, Chara, and Thornton you just threw out there with question marks behind them. But it was Jagr you chose to accuse. Then others jumped in with Horton. Am I right? And are you a DB?

    Yes to both.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to 49-North's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     As mentioned by many posters, EPO, which enhances endurance, won't manifest itself by altering physical appearance.

    Of course, we haven't even mentioned blood-doping, which doesn't even show up at all, unless you continuously monitor red blood cell counts.

     

     



    EPO is blood doping.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Perhaps I'm not using the correct vocabulary.  When I say "blood doping", I'm referring to the practice of removing some of your own blood while you're training, then transfusing it back in just before your competition.  Your body builds up new red blood cells to compensate for those removed, then when transfused back in, you have extra red blood cell capacity to carry oxygen, thus heightened endurance.  Because it's your own blood, it shouldn't leave any testable traces, except for the fact that your red blood cell count is off the charts.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to 49-North's comment:

     


    Perhaps I'm not using the correct vocabulary.  When I say "blood doping", I'm referring to the practice of removing some of your own blood while you're training, then transfusing it back in just before your competition.  Your body builds up new red blood cells to compensate for those removed, then when transfused back in, you have extra red blood cell capacity to carry oxygen, thus heightened endurance.  Because it's your own blood, it shouldn't leave any testable traces, except for the fact that your red blood cell count is off the charts.

     




    Correctamundo!

    However, there is a maximum reasonable amount of red blood cells to expect a human being to have, currently in bike racing if you exceed that - you're bagged.  Same goes for testosterone level.

    I was a bike racer at a reasonable level as an amateur, I rode in Italy for a team there.  Races can be 3-4 hours long (Pro races up to 8 hours long) and it's an aerobic effort most of the time, not an anaerobic effort except for the sprints - which are minimal.  Since hockey is mostly an anaerobic effort, I really don't see that much of a boost from PEDs of the EPO and blood doping type of thing.

    I would think more testosterone and other stuff during training - and pain killers would be another one I would suspect.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to 49-North's comment:

     

     

     

     



    EPO is blood doping.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Perhaps I'm not using the correct vocabulary.  When I say "blood doping", I'm referring to the practice of removing some of your own blood while you're training, then transfusing it back in just before your competition.  Your body builds up new red blood cells to compensate for those removed, then when transfused back in, you have extra red blood cell capacity to carry oxygen, thus heightened endurance.  Because it's your own blood, it shouldn't leave any testable traces, except for the fact that your red blood cell count is off the charts.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Gotcha.  But while they would not be able to detect foreign substances in your blood, I believe that standard testing would now include a measure "blood thickness" (cycling tests do), so that doping and EPO would be detected.  I suppose that the NHL is still a long, long way from that kind of testing, and the players know it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Bruins Player on PED's?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    Correctamundo!

    However, there is a maximum reasonable amount of red blood cells to expect a human being to have, currently in bike racing if you exceed that - you're bagged.  Same goes for testosterone level.

    I was a bike racer at a reasonable level as an amateur, I rode in Italy for a team there.  Races can be 3-4 hours long (Pro races up to 8 hours long) and it's an aerobic effort most of the time, not an anaerobic effort except for the sprints - which are minimal.  Since hockey is mostly an anaerobic effort, I really don't see that much of a boost from PEDs of the EPO and blood doping type of thing.

    I would think more testosterone and other stuff during training - and pain killers would be another one I would suspect.



    Interesting thoughts.  I was into triathlons and that was the same deal -- never go anaerobic in long, long races.  Perfect for EPO, from my understanding.

    Don't you think that EPO would still be a great recovery tool for 3rd period or overtime, even with the bursts of anaerobic activity?

     
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