B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

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    B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    So as of this morning the Leafs have the 5th worst record in the league, they are officially out of playoff contention and are sinking further and further in the standings. This is a team that could be in the running for 1 of the top picks in the draft. Most agree that the 2 Russians will go 1 and 2 in the draft.
    The NHL is headed for a potential work stoppage next year. Do you think that these 2 top picks will stick around in North America and wait for the CBA issue to be resolved or do you think that they might sign with a KHL team and become instant millionaires in their home country. With enough time (and money) in Russia who's to say that they would ever come over to the NHL ?
    My point is that the top 2 picks in this draft become a very uncertain commodity when the CBA issue is involved.
    Can Brian Burke take the chance of drafting a player who may never end up playing for them? His job may very well be on the line after this season and he needs to bring in players that will help them win NOW. The Leafs need a big center and they need a goalie. Is Tim Thomas the kind of guy that Burke may be willing to give up his pick for ? Does Burke dare make another deal with the B's after the Kessel fiasco? What about the other botton dwellars like Columbus and Edmonton? Howson is also on the hot seat in Columbus and needs a goalie. The Oilers can keep stocking the cupboard with #1 picks but are they better off trading that pick for the goalie that they also need?
    My belief is that the B's need to resolve the goalie issue at the conclusion of the season. It's time to either continue with Timmy as your #1 or give the job to Tuukka. One is the Vezina winner and the other is a young stud. In my opinion both are worthy of a goalie starved team's #1 pick.
     I'm not saying that the B's would need to draft one of the Russians with the pick. They could use it for a top rated North American player. A top team like Boston can take the risk of draft uncertainty while some of the bottom teams will probably be looking for more of a sure thing. This could be one of those years where teams are very willing to shop the 1 and 2 picks.
    I see big things happening before the draft
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    You're not suggesting that a 38 year old goalie will command a 1st round draft pick in a trade, are you?

    I would think it much more likely that Burke will look to trade for a guy like Bernier, who's stuck behind Quick;  or put in an offer sheet on Schneider, if he's still unsigned by the Canucks by July 1st.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]You're not suggesting that a 38 year old goalie will command a 1st round draft pick in a trade, are you? I would think it much more likely that Burke will look to trade for a guy like Bernier, who's stuck behind Quick;  or put in an offer sheet on Schneider, if he's still unsigned by the Canucks by July 1st.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    Or perhaps Harding from Minny....any other options out there?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]So as of this morning the Leafs have the 5th worst record in the league, they are officially out of playoff contention and are sinking further and further in the standings. This is a team that could be in the running for 1 of the top picks in the draft. Most agree that the 2 Russians will go 1 and 2 in the draft. The NHL is headed for a potential work stoppage next year. Do you think that these 2 top picks will stick around in North America and wait for the CBA issue to be resolved or do you think that they might sign with a KHL team and become instant millionaires in their home country. With enough time (and money) in Russia who's to say that they would ever come over to the NHL ? My point is that the top 2 picks in this draft become a very uncertain commodity when the CBA issue is involved. Can Brian Burke take the chance of drafting a player who may never end up playing for them? His job may very well be on the line after this season and he needs to bring in players that will help them win NOW. The Leafs need a big center and they need a goalie. Is Tim Thomas the kind of guy that Burke may be willing to give up his pick for ? Does Burke dare make another deal with the B's after the Kessel fiasco? What about the other botton dwellars like Columbus and Edmonton? Howson is also on the hot seat in Columbus and needs a goalie. The Oilers can keep stocking the cupboard with #1 picks but are they better off trading that pick for the goalie that they also need? My belief is that the B's need to resolve the goalie issue at the conclusion of the season. It's time to either continue with Timmy as your #1 or give the job to Tuukka. One is the Vezina winner and the other is a young stud. In my opinion both are worthy of a goalie starved team's #1 pick.  I'm not saying that the B's would need to draft one of the Russians with the pick. They could use it for a top rated North American player. A top team like Boston can take the risk of draft uncertainty while some of the bottom teams will probably be looking for more of a sure thing. This could be one of those years where teams are very willing to shop the 1 and 2 picks. I see big things happening before the draft
    Posted by ed121501[/QUOTE]

    So your saying the Leafs should trade their lottery pick to the Bruins for 38 year old Tim Thomas?

    Wow.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    If I'm Burke I go after Quick, not Bernier.

    I would in no way mind seeing a deal made by the Bruins to deal away TT or TR and pick up Quick. That kid is going to be very good for a very long time.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]You're not suggesting that a 38 year old goalie will command a 1st round draft pick in a trade, are you? I would think it much more likely that Burke will look to trade for a guy like Bernier, who's stuck behind Quick;  or put in an offer sheet on Schneider, if he's still unsigned by the Canucks by July 1st.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    I am saying that a 38 year old vezina winner and an eager seller may be good trading partners. Maybe a deal would require Timmy + ?, Maybe Rask is the one to go? There are different options out there and there are multiple parntners (Leafs,Oilers, Blue Jackets....)
    Our Bruins are in a good place right now but, need to be continually looking to reload for the future (like the Wings). Their position of strength is goaltending and they can afford to give one of these guys up for the future good of the team.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : So your saying the Leafs should trade their lottery pick to the Bruins for 38 year old Tim Thomas? Wow.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    What I'm saying is that the top 2 picks may not be as valuable to a team this year as they would be in another year where a work stoppage could occur. I'm also saying that guys such as Burke and Howson are probably very interested in keeping their jobs. The only way they keep their jobs is if their teams start to trend upwards, make progress and make the playoffs. It can be argued that Tim Thomas was the main reason that the B's were able to come back from 0-2 to the Habs and go on to win the Stanley Cup. Bottom line is that this guy will steal victories for you on some nights and give you a chance to win almost every night. That is a GREAT place to start for a GM with questionable job security.
    What about Rask? I am not sold on this kid like most here. I think he is a very good goalie, but, I don't think he is untradeable 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    Nobody here has ever given a really good reason to part with either TT or TR.  Know why?  Cuz there isn't one.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    ed, there is no way toronto trades their lottery pick this year. And Tim Thomas would never fetch that much in return. I like the gusto-attitude, but this one wouldn't happen in a million years.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]Nobody here has ever given a really good reason to part with either TT or TR.  Know why?  Cuz there isn't one.
    Posted by hangnail[/QUOTE]

    Maybe because TT is unrestricted after next year, his No-Trade leaves July 1st, and there is a replacement waiting.
    I fairness to the OP, Thomas' age is less a factor.  He has plenty of quality years left.  The down side for potential suitors is he's only signed for one year.  Rather than focus on "38" why not say you are trading a 2 time Vezina and recent Conn Symthe winner for a lottery pick.  Makes it sound much more plausible, and is equally correct. 
    I doubt it would happen, but the idea doesn't deserve to be ridiculed.  A trade involving Thomas for Toronto's first could be worked out with additional pieces. 
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : I am saying that a 38 year old vezina winner and an eager seller may be good trading partners. Maybe a deal would require Timmy + ?, Maybe Rask is the one to go? There are different options out there and there are multiple parntners (Leafs,Oilers, Blue Jackets....) Our Bruins are in a good place right now but, need to be continually looking to reload for the future (like the Wings). Their position of strength is goaltending and they can afford to give one of these guys up for the future good of the team.
    Posted by ed121501[/QUOTE]

    When your signing Marty Turco out of retirement, is goaltending a position of strength?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    for some reason i think burke will not be doing any more with trades with boston in the foreseeable future. thanks for kaberle and seguin, each played a role in bringing the cup back to boston. that's got to eat at him. especially since the guys he got in return made his team no better. understandable if he's a little gun shy when it comes to dealing with the bruins.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    38 yes but a top 5 goalie. who wouldnt be interested?
    Quick will be coveted for sure.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]If I'm Burke I go after Quick, not Bernier. I would in no way mind seeing a deal made by the Bruins to deal away TT or TR and pick up Quick. That kid is going to be very good for a very long time.
    Posted by lambda13[/QUOTE]

    What has Jonathan Bernier done to suggest trading Quick, one of the better goalies in the NHL who only seems to be getting better? Theyre struggling to get into the playoff WITH Quick..Either way, I don't see either getting dealt, they trade one what do they do if the other gets hurt? Nothing in that Kings system after Bernier.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : What has Jonathan Bernier done to suggest trading Quick, one of the better goalies in the NHL who only seems to be getting better? Theyre struggling to get into the playoff WITH Quick..Either way, I don't see either getting dealt, they trade one what do they do if the other gets hurt? Nothing in that Kings system after Bernier.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    The Kings are 29th in the league in goals scored. That's why they're struggling.  The fact that they're 2nd best in goals against is the only reason they're still in the hunt.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : Maybe because TT is unrestricted after next year, his No-Trade leaves July 1st, and there is a replacement waiting. I fairness to the OP, Thomas' age is less a factor.  He has plenty of quality years left.  The down side for potential suitors is he's only signed for one year.  Rather than focus on "38" why not say you are trading a 2 time Vezina and recent Conn Symthe winner for a lottery pick.  Makes it sound much more plausible, and is equally correct.  I doubt it would happen, but the idea doesn't deserve to be ridiculed.  A trade involving Thomas for Toronto's first could be worked out with additional pieces. 
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]

    Not ridiculing anyone just stating a fact.  I'm pretty sure, though, that PC is ecstatic having the best 1-2 tandem in the league right now and also knowing that it will be a great battle for the number 1 spot in camp next September.  No need to blow it up this summer.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : When your signing Marty Turco out of retirement, is goaltending a position of strength?
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
    In all fairness, they signed Turco because their # 2 and #3 goalies were injured. When healthy, the B's are definitely strong at the goalie position.

     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]So as of this morning the Leafs have the 5th worst record in the league, they are officially out of playoff contention and are sinking further and further in the standings. This is a team that could be in the running for 1 of the top picks in the draft. Most agree that the 2 Russians will go 1 and 2 in the draft. The NHL is headed for a potential work stoppage next year. Do you think that these 2 top picks will stick around in North America and wait for the CBA issue to be resolved or do you think that they might sign with a KHL team and become instant millionaires in their home country. With enough time (and money) in Russia who's to say that they would ever come over to the NHL ? My point is that the top 2 picks in this draft become a very uncertain commodity when the CBA issue is involved. Can Brian Burke take the chance of drafting a player who may never end up playing for them? His job may very well be on the line after this season and he needs to bring in players that will help them win NOW. The Leafs need a big center and they need a goalie. Is Tim Thomas the kind of guy that Burke may be willing to give up his pick for ? Does Burke dare make another deal with the B's after the Kessel fiasco? What about the other botton dwellars like Columbus and Edmonton? Howson is also on the hot seat in Columbus and needs a goalie. The Oilers can keep stocking the cupboard with #1 picks but are they better off trading that pick for the goalie that they also need? My belief is that the B's need to resolve the goalie issue at the conclusion of the season. It's time to either continue with Timmy as your #1 or give the job to Tuukka. One is the Vezina winner and the other is a young stud. In my opinion both are worthy of a goalie starved team's #1 pick.  I'm not saying that the B's would need to draft one of the Russians with the pick. They could use it for a top rated North American player. A top team like Boston can take the risk of draft uncertainty while some of the bottom teams will probably be looking for more of a sure thing. This could be one of those years where teams are very willing to shop the 1 and 2 picks. I see big things happening before the draft
    Posted by ed121501[/QUOTE]

    First of all, I don't think it should be automatically assumed that if a player is of European origin that the KHL is option. Especially, in my opinion, the younger players. If you're talking about a player towards the end of his career, then I see that as being a lot more possible. If these kids are contemplating a KHL career then why are they currently playing in North America? Easy answer. They want to play in the NHL. And if there is a work stoppage, it will not last more than a year. I don't think a possibility of a work stoppage is enough to make a kid, who's dream is to play in the NHL, suddenly change his mind and bolt FOREVER. Therefore, no risk in drafting either of them.

    Secondly, if you think Burke will trade away ANOTHER pick, you're out of your mind. Have you seen how much heat he's taken lately mainly due to the Kessel trade? Trade in which he lost 3 great picks. Not going to happen.

    Lastly, TT will not fetch a 1st round pick in this lifetime, no matter how desperate for goaltending a team is. Yes, he is a top rated goalie (2X Vezina, Conn Smyth, Stanley Cup) but how will a team build around a 38 year old goalie when an 18 year old draft pick gives you the possibility of building around him for 10+ years? Again, not gonna happen.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : The Kings are 29th in the league in goals scored. That's why they're struggling.  The fact that they're 2nd best in goals against is the only reason they're still in the hunt.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    My point exactly, which is why they traded Johnson for Carter.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    Burke would be lynched if he traded that 1st round pick to Boston again, regardless of the return.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : In all fairness, they signed Turco because their # 2 and #3 goalies were injured. When healthy , the B's are definitely strong at the goalie position.
    Posted by ed121501[/QUOTE]

    True, but the only recent team I've seen with stength/depth at the goaltender position was St.Louis before they dealt Bishop. Elliott, Halak both #1 goalies with Bishop thought of as a #1. Now Bishop has done as much if not less than Bernier but St. Louis also has to goalies in the NHL in Stalock and Allen who thought of highly.

    I just don't see how one can say Brian Burke is going to deal his lottery pick, which could be a #1 or 2 and deal him to Boston for a 38 year old goaltender especially after what he dealt for Kessel. Now do I expect there to be a market for Thomas? Absolutley, if he does not win a Cup, i think he will be dealt, but no way it will be for a #1 pick or even a 2nd rounder. I'm thinking he'll go to a team like Chicago (Viktor Stalberg??) or Tampa (Ryan Malone??)..It'll be that type of player.
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : Not ridiculing anyone just stating a fact.  I'm pretty sure, though, that PC is ecstatic having the best 1-2 tandem in the league right now and also knowing that it will be a great battle for the number 1 spot in camp next September.  No need to blow it up this summer.
    Posted by hangnail[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I didn't mean you with the ridicule comment, that was a general theme of the responses. 
    No, not blow it up, but trading from a position of strength to stock for the future is the way to go.  Thomas still has value, maybe (yes just maybe) they should cash in.  The goal-tending would take a bit of a hit, but would still be adequate.  The rest of the team would need to step up to make up the difference and you have assets and Cap space to work with. 
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:[QUOTE]Burke would be lynched if he traded that 1st round pick to Boston again, regardless of the return.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    Like pitch forks and medival torcher, the whole bit...
     
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    Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....

    In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: B's/Leafs - Just thinking.... : True, but the only recent team I've seen with stength/depth at the goaltender position was St.Louis before they dealt Bishop. Elliott, Halak both #1 goalies with Bishop thought of as a #1. Now Bishop has done as much if not less than Bernier but St. Louis also has to goalies in the NHL in Stalock and Allen who thought of highly. I just don't see how one can say Brian Burke is going to deal his lottery pick, which could be a #1 or 2 and deal him to Boston for a 38 year old goaltender especially after what he dealt for Kessel. Now do I expect there to be a market for Thomas? Absolutley, if he does not win a Cup, i think he will be dealt, but no way it will be for a #1 pick or even a 2nd rounder. I'm thinking he'll go to a team like Chicago (Viktor Stalberg??) or Tampa (Ryan Malone??)..It'll be that type of player.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Tim Thomas as a rental at the trade deadline should command more than a second rounder, never mind being properly shopped in the off-season.    Remember a first rounder and a good prospect for Kaberle (and toss in the conditional pick as well)?   Thomas is worth more to a team in need of goaltending than Kaberle. 
     

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