Butler and DeCosta

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    did i miss something?  when did butler become the next gretzky?  who cares if he's not a bruin?
    Posted by goodnewsbears


    He scored 10 goals and had 11 assists in 36 games while playing on the top line in Ottawa.  Because he played in New England, missing out on this hidden gem is clearly a rookie mistake by Chiarelli, right?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    This is just another example of one PC missed, and it came right out of his backyard here.  It's that simple.  I know I'm being put on trial here because it's not ok to question the powers at be in Bruins land on this board. 
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan


    No, no that's not it.  The problem is that you've done a lousy job supporting your argument.  You started by saying that based on the very limited evidence, Chiarelli "made a rookie mistake" by "letting" these two sign elsewhere.  Now you're saying that 15 teams were sitting on offer sheets for Butler, and I ask you, what was Chiarelli supposed to do about that???  Outbid what Ottawa gave him?  These guys were free agents like any other free agent - they wanted a combination of playing time and money that the Bruins weren't going to give up.  In the end, the only reason you think this is a mistake on Chiarelli's part is that these two played "in the Bruins backyard".  So what?  You think other NHL teams don't scout New Hampshire?  Don't know who these kids are?

    As for Camper, you're talking about a guy who will play in Providence next year, and whose NHL salary would be about 2/3 what Butler or Da Costa got out of Ottawa.  Camper will make a base salary of $600K and $60K in the AHL, which is where he'll be come October.  Of course, there weren't 15 teams beating down his door, so you can take a shot on a player who your scouts say is worth giving a shot, who other teams might not be on because they're too busy chasing Da Costa.

    So don't give us this "you can't question Bruins management here!" garbage.  I could give a rat's about PC, CJ, or the scouting staff if you want to rip them.  I just don't agree with the point you're making, and pretty much everyone else seems to agree.  Unless you have a persecution complex, that should at least tell you that you're not getting your point across very effectively.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from thedauber1. Show thedauber1's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    This is just another example of one PC missed, and it came right out of his backyard here.  It's that simple.  I know I'm being put on trial here because it's not ok to question the powers at be in Bruins land on this board. 
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan


    its okay to question them, your just wrong is all
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattymcgee55. Show mattymcgee55's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    How do we know that the Bruins didnt offer Butler and he went w/ Ottawa?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Butler was just horrible the first 10 games he was called up (no points and a -12). If it were any other team he would have been sent back down for good. Instead the Sens had the luxury of allowing him to play through his mistakes and now he looks pretty good.

    DeCosta does not seem to have any one exceptional ability. Average at best and that is being generous. Greening and Condra (two other callups) seem to be better.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Yeah, I am actually a fan signing some of the undrafted college stars like this, but I don't think Chiarelli made any mistakes with Butler or Da Costa.

    The pros of these signings are in getting a more proven college player without trading anything or giving up a draft pick.  If I am correct (haven't looked it up) Andy Greene and Tyler Bozak are examples of guys that were signed as undrafted FA's after playing very well in college, and they worked out pretty well.  But the cost and the short EL contract are definitely deterrants, and bad teams have a huge advantage over teams like the Bruins to get the best guys.

    I hoped that maybe, in some way, Da Costa could be had by the Bruins because I thought he looked so good at Merrimack.  But looking into the bidding for him, the Bruins really can't possibly compete with Ottawa here.  As far as Butler, I don't recall him being as much of a standout as either Da Costa or Camper in college, so I totally understand how Chiarelli (and Butler) could see that the Bruins were not the best fit, since playing in the AHL doesn't work well for either party.

    Let's remember that Chiarelli did take this same chance on Carter Camper and Matt Dalton, so we know he looks into this option and tries to sign players this way when it makes sense.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Normally it is teams that have traded a lot of their draft picks away that tend to sign a number of college kids in any given year. TO has made an art the last few years of just such a mass signing. If memory serves me correct it was BB who said that only one out of 6 or 7 signed ever pan out. It seems that Ottawa is now trying to emulate this strategy.

    For teams like th B's who have had more then their share of draft picks over the last couple of years, they do not need to rely on college signings to stock the farm so they tend to be more selective
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    This is just another example of one PC missed, and it came right out of his backyard here.  It's that simple.  I know I'm being put on trial here because it's not ok to question the powers at be in Bruins land on this board. 
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan

    I just don't think PC "missed" anything.He knew exactly what type of player Butler is,how much it would cost for his services,and the level of interest Butler had in playing for Providence.PC made a buisiness decision,plain and simple.It had nothing to do with Butler slipping under his radar.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    All good points guys.

    A few things though:

    Fletch, Butler wasn't an under the radar player, he was NCAA leading goal scorer and hobey baker runner up, better season that DaCosta or Camper as you mentioned.

    Second, PC has never talked to Butler, so there were no conversations where Butler thought he'd be in Providence or didnt want to come here etc.  PC said he had no interest period. 

    Finally, PC has been asking around wondering how Butler slipped through the cracks of him and his staff.  He and the scouts heavily scouted Butler, and UNH games in general, but wants to know what other teams saw in him that PC missed.

    Take them for what they're worth, but these points are not speculation.

    Anyways, here's to hoping we lay out those Habs!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    Normally it is teams that have traded a lot of their draft picks away that tend to sign a number of college kids in any given year. TO has made an art the last few years of just such a mass signing. If memory serves me correct it was BB who said that only one out of 6 or 7 signed ever pan out. It seems that Ottawa is now trying to emulate this strategy. For teams like th B's who have had more then their share of draft picks over the last couple of years, they do not need to rely on college signings to stock the farm so they tend to be more selective
    Posted by jmwalters


    Murray and Ottawa aren't trying to emulate the strategy.  Murray has been the most successful GM in the UFA college signings, Burkes cup team in Anaheim had two Murray signings  in Penner and Andy Macdonald, big time pieces to that cup team.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    On a totally unrelated note, how can I find out if I've accidently ignored someone?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    I guess you could tell us who you think you've ignored and someone can reply to something they wrote so you can see if the quoted post appears for you or not.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]All good points guys. A few things though: Fletch, Butler wasn't an under the radar player, he was NCAA leading goal scorer and hobey baker runner up, better season that DaCosta or Camper as you mentioned.


    Interesting.  I didn't say that Butler flew under the radar, I just didn't realize that he was as outstanding in college as Da Costa or Camper...so I looked... 

    To correct you above -- Butler was not the leading goal scorer in the NCAA (Atkinson was in 2010 and that was the only year Butler was close).  He was a finalist for the Hobey Baker, just like Camper and Da Costa were, but Camper and Da Costa were better scorers in college.

    For his NCAA career Butler averaged .79 points per game
    Camper's was 1.18 ppg
    Da Costa's was 1.36 ppg

    Camper had more points this year (57) than Butler ever had in a season.  Da Costa only made it through his first two years in college before being signed.  Yet he more than doubled the points Butler had in his first two years and almost doubled Butler's' ppg for his college career.

    I think these may be the reasons why Camper and Da Costa were a bit more sought after coming out of college.  Just my opinion on that though.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Butler and DeCosta:
    DeCosta with little experience looks very poised with the puck and able to setup scoring chances (looks a little like a young krejci with his patients).
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan


    I missed this earlier.

    Paging Dr. Krejci.  Paging Dr. Krejci. 

    Seriously, three games with nothing doing and he looks that good?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta :Interesting.  I didn't say that Butler flew under the radar, I just didn't realize that he was as outstanding in college as Da Costa or Camper...so I looked...  To correct you above -- Butler was not the leading goal scorer in the NCAA (Atkinson was in 2010 and that was the only year Butler was close).  He was a finalist for the Hobey Baker, just like Camper and Da Costa were, but Camper and Da Costa were better scorers in college. For his NCAA career Butler averaged .79 points per game Camper's was 1.18 ppg Da Costa's was 1.36 ppg Camper had more points this year (57) than Butler ever had in a season.  Da Costa only made it through his first two years in college before being signed.  Yet he more than doubled the points Butler had in his first two years and almost doubled Butler's' ppg for his college career. I think these may be the reasons why Camper and Da Costa were a bit more sought after coming out of college.  Just my opinion on that though.
    Posted by Fletcher1


    But Fletch, Chiarelli let him waltz right out of the backyard.  Don't confuse the hatchet job with facts!  That rookie Chiarelli let Butler slip right by!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Yeah, but if you go there you're in that creepy territory of a guy who sets up scoring chances with his patients.  That ain't right.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    BookBoy, I think I may have bloked Dez?

    NAS, it's a comparison of styles, I never said he was going to be krejci, their games are similar.  Does everything need to be spelled out for you?  You take everything so literal, read what I said, "he looks a LITTLE like a YOUNG Krejci".  Thanks again for trying to belittle a poster, but you're WRONG again.

    Fletch, good stats on those 3 guys.  I would just say the 3 are far different players, and I bet if that was done for goals you would see a major difference in outcome.  It would be like comparing a setup guys points to a goal scorers points.  Setup guy usually wins the point battle, pure goal scorers will have far more goals in their point totals.  Anyways, you're right, those guys had more prductive careers early. 

    By the way, didn't I say DaCosta in this as well?  Why am I just talking Butler?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : But Fletch, Chiarelli let him waltz right out of the backyard.  Don't confuse the hatchet job with facts!  That rookie Chiarelli let Butler slip right by!
    Posted by Not-A-Shot



    You are unbelievable, do you have a hard time reading?  It's just another small example, and yes Chia has been learning on the job since he got here and has made a number of mistakes.  Signing Chara and Savard, then lucking out with how bad Toronto was last year are the two best things he's done otherwise, I am hard pressed to think of much else.

    He's done a good job pulling us out of the basement, but he also helped put us there with his Lewis hire and some of his trades.

    You are insufferable to talk with, none of these other guys agree, which is fine, but none of them are as condescending and act like a jerk as you do to so many on these boards.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Butler never impressed me at UNH. Even though he was an awards finalist the concensus was it was more of the team around him being so good they needed to have a finalist in the running. Both Camper and Da Costa stood out more than Butler while playing at the college level. I think Butler flew under the radar because he wasn't a huge standout on a good team.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    On a totally unrelated note, how can I find out if I've accidently ignored someone?
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan

    Posts from ignored posters don't disappear completely - they are replaced with a line that says "Posts from XXX are hidden" and the option to stop ignoring them.  If you accidentally ignore someone, you will notice the moment they post a reply in a thread you are following.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
     By the way, didn't I say DaCosta in this as well?  Why am I just talking Butler?
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]

    I am responding to Butler mainly, because Chiarelli did make a sincere run at Da Costa and lost out to Ottawa.  With Butler, I guess the question is why didn't Chiarelli even try to sign him, and I am argueing that he may have been less sought after because he had three kind of average years in college followed by an outstanding Senior year.  If the Bruins thought he would be in the AHL, which is very likely, then right there he would be a much better fit in Ottawa for all parties.

    I do like where Bookboy took the "scoring with patients" comment.  Delightful.

    And with NAS, it is very irritating when he's being a condescending jerk to you (been there), but I think you will still find it humorous when he does it to the next guy.  That's the duality of NAS.  He's the antagonist (think Tim Brent) of the board...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta :  By the way, didn't I say DaCosta in this as well?  Why am I just talking Butler? Posted by bigbadbruinsfan
    I am responding to Butler mainly, because Chiarelli did make a sincere run at Da Costa and lost out to Ottawa.  With Butler, I guess the question is why didn't Chiarelli even try to sign him, and I am argueing that he may have been less sought after because he had three kind of average years in college followed by an outstanding Senior year.  If the Bruins thought he would be in the AHL, which is very likely, then right there he would be a much better fit in Ottawa for all parties. I do like where Bookboy took the "scoring with patients" comment.  Delightful. And with NAS, it is very irritating when he's being a condescending jerk to you (been there), but I think you will still find it humorous when he does it to the next guy.  That's the duality of NAS.  He's the antagonist (think Tim Brent) of the board...
    Posted by Fletcher1


    True with DaCosta, he had alot of interest and wanted to play somewhere he could get ice.  I know that was a big consideration in Butlers decision as well, however, PC didn't even make him an offer while the likes of Pitt, NJ, Van, and about 12 other clubs made a big play for him (the first 3 reported as heaviest suitors other than Ott).  My simple point, why weren't we in on that when Van and Pitt amongst others have far better forwards than we do?  That's certainly not to say he would have picked this organization, but if those ther great GM's thought it was worth putting forth a big effort, why didn't we?

    Another larger point, PC is asking others in the NHL what they saw in Butler and how he missed out on this kid. 

    NAS' tactics trying to belittle people out of their larger point by getting in the weeds is frustrating.  He says he wants to talk hockey, but he really just wants to rile people up.

    Fletch on the goal scoring thing, Atkinson won out last season as top goal scorer, but Butler was the nations top scorer before the frozen 4 playoff, of course with Nyquist leading in points (how did he not win the hobey!)
 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : But Fletch, Chiarelli let him waltz right out of the backyard.  Don't confuse the hatchet job with facts!  That rookie Chiarelli let Butler slip right by!
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOE]

    You lose sight of the facts and the larger point.  The simple point is 15 teams made offers on him, reportedly Lou L, Shero, Bryan Murray (who has been the best at signing college FA's in the past 10 years, and is PC's "mentor"), and Gillis madethe biggest pushes for Butler and PC didn't even make a phone call.  So if some of the leagues best GM's make a big push for him, why don't we even make a phone call?

    That is the only question, those are the facts, and your boy chia missed on it.  Now he's asking how he missed on this guy.  You're the one who lets the facts cloud your opinion of all things Bruins.  You think you're the keeper of the gate of what's right and wrong in hockey decisions, if you disagree you try to bully with no facts.

    Fact:  Some of the best GM's in the game made the largest play they could to court him.

    Fact:  The GM with the best track record of signing college FA's got him, who also happens to be your boy PC's mentor.

    Fact:  Chia didn't even throw his hat in the ring.

    Fact:  He is asking around as to why he and his staff missed on this guy.

    Opinion:  you don't think PC missed on this one.

    It's not the end of the world that PC missed on this, but it is just another example of one he missed.  That's the simple point, you want to turn it into something else, something bigger, but that's not what I was saying.  Go pick on someone else.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : Posts from ignored posters don't disappear completely - they are replaced with a line that says "Posts from XXX are hidden" and the option to stop ignoring them.  If you accidentally ignore someone, you will notice the moment they post a reply in a thread you are following.
    Posted by DrCC


    Thanks DR.

    I was looking on my phone at this thread and saw a posting from Dez, but when I came in here and logged in, his post disappered?  Had me wondering, but it doesnt say anything about ignoring a post.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    Fact:  He is asking around as to why he and his staff missed on this guy.
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan

    Out of curiosity, where did you here this?
     
  • Sections
    Shortcuts

    Share