Buyout question?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Buyout question?

    So from my understanding a team can buyout 2 contracts from the old CBA. In order to do that they have to pay 2/3 of the remainging contract with no cap hit?

    What if a team bought out, say Chara, and his 7 million. So they would have to pay him 4.2 per year for the remainder of his contract right? What if they then turned around and signed him to a new contract for 2.8 million per yer? That gets the player the same 7 million but only costs the team 2.8 on the cap? Is that possible? Or is there a no re-signing rule in the buy-out clause?

    Before anyone jumps on the Chara example, I am in no way shape or form saying we should do it. Just was the biggest contract on the B's.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    There's a no re-signing clause, for one year he cannot join the team that bought him out.

    -- Proud user of Chambraigne; Now with Wiener Scent! --

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    BUYOUTS

    During the ordinary course buyout periods in June 2013 and June 2014, teams will be permitted two compliance buyouts. Compliance buyouts follow the same formula as ordinary-course buyouts — either 1/3 or 2/3 of actual salary depending on age — but do not count against the cap. In 2013, the buyout period begins 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final ends and concludes on July 4 at 5 p.m.

    The NHL allowed teams to execute one of their two compliance buyout options prior to the 2012-13 season on players with cap hits of more than $3 million. Two teams exercised the accelerated compliance buyout option: the Montreal Canadiens on Scott Gomez and the New York Rangers on Wade Redden. The players received full pay and counted at their full cap hit for 2012-13, after which the compliance buyout payments kick in. NOTE: The $3 million minimum applied only to accelerated compliance buyouts and does not apply to normal compliance buyouts.

    For one season following a compliance buyout, the player is prohibited from rejoining the team that bought him out.

    According to the New York Post on June 26, the NHL notified teams that "re-signing of a player following a trade and a subsequent (compliance) buyout" would be deemed cap circumvention."

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    I read an article that talked of a deal between Tampa and Toronto, Toronto would get Vinny Lecav and buy him out, and then Tampa would resign him.  I didn't understand the article because they were saying Toronto would get more cap space by doing that - I don't see how.

     

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    According to the New York Post on June 26, the NHL notified teams that "re-signing of a player following a trade and a subsequent (compliance) buyout" would be deemed cap circumvention."



    Now that is uber-sneaky.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    So from my understanding a team can buyout 2 contracts from the old CBA. In order to do that they have to pay 2/3 of the remainging contract with no cap hit?

    What if a team bought out, say Chara, and his 7 million. So they would have to pay him 4.2 per year for the remainder of his contract right? What if they then turned around and signed him to a new contract for 2.8 million per yer? That gets the player the same 7 million but only costs the team 2.8 on the cap? Is that possible? Or is there a no re-signing rule in the buy-out clause?

    Before anyone jumps on the Chara example, I am in no way shape or form saying we should do it. Just was the biggest contract on the B's.



    Lam, the team actually gets twice the length of the contract to pay out the 3/4 of the money. Buyout 5 years and get 10 years to pay. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    Apparently Bill Daly has warned teams not to use amnesty buyouts and trades to bypass the effect of these rules (TSN). The scenario in question would have been TB sending Vinny and a prospect to Toronto for a bag of pucks (or equivalent). Toronto buys out Vinny using an amnesty buyout, making him a free agent who cannot re-sign with the Leafs. He would then sign a new deal back in TB. Toronto would have to spend the buyout $$$ for Vinny, but it wouldn't count against the cap and they'd get a prospect in the trade to make the financial impact worthwhile.

     

    Of course, it's all moot for Vinny now....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    Ok that makes more sense. Except doubling the amount paid. The player will net more money than his contract was signed for?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    Ok that makes more sense. Except doubling the amount paid. The player will net more money than his contract was signed for?



    No, they get double the time to pay 3/4 of the contract. The player likely does pocket more money if he's bought out and signs on elsewhere. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Ok that makes more sense. Except doubling the amount paid. The player will net more money than his contract was signed for?

     



    No, they get double the time to pay 3/4 of the contract. The player likely does pocket more money if he's bought out and signs on elsewhere. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    2/3 right? so if a player is signed for example for 5 years at 9 mill a year, they get 3 million a year for 10 years. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to lambda13's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Ok that makes more sense. Except doubling the amount paid. The player will net more money than his contract was signed for?

     

     

     



    No, they get double the time to pay 3/4 of the contract. The player likely does pocket more money if he's bought out and signs on elsewhere. 

     

     

     

     

     



    2/3 right? so if a player is signed for example for 5 years at 9 mill a year, they get 3 million a year for 10 years. 

     

     

     



    Exactly right. Thanks for pointing that out. It's 2/3 of the contract with double the time to pay.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to Dave24's comment:

    Apparently Bill Daly has warned teams not to use amnesty buyouts and trades to bypass the effect of these rules (TSN). The scenario in question would have been TB sending Vinny and a prospect to Toronto for a bag of pucks (or equivalent). Toronto buys out Vinny using an amnesty buyout, making him a free agent who cannot re-sign with the Leafs. He would then sign a new deal back in TB. Toronto would have to spend the buyout $$$ for Vinny, but it wouldn't count against the cap and they'd get a prospect in the trade to make the financial impact worthwhile.

     

    Of course, it's all moot for Vinny now....




    That still doesn't make sense to me, Toronto would be spending half of Vinny's salary for a prospect - fine if you have money to burn - which they might, but still doesn't seem worth it.  Especially for Toronto where they should buy out Komiserak - and you could look around their roster and make an arguement for another player.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    In response to Dave24's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Apparently Bill Daly has warned teams not to use amnesty buyouts and trades to bypass the effect of these rules (TSN). The scenario in question would have been TB sending Vinny and a prospect to Toronto for a bag of pucks (or equivalent). Toronto buys out Vinny using an amnesty buyout, making him a free agent who cannot re-sign with the Leafs. He would then sign a new deal back in TB. Toronto would have to spend the buyout $$$ for Vinny, but it wouldn't count against the cap and they'd get a prospect in the trade to make the financial impact worthwhile.

     

    Of course, it's all moot for Vinny now....

     




     

    That still doesn't make sense to me, Toronto would be spending half of Vinny's salary for a prospect - fine if you have money to burn - which they might, but still doesn't seem worth it.  Especially for Toronto where they should buy out Komiserak - and you could look around their roster and make an arguement for another player.

    [/QUOTE]

    Makes no see to me either BH. Spending over 30 million to get a prospect sounds like madness. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    BadHab didn't they waive Komisarek? I thought he went to the NYR?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    As you guys have seen, math isn't my strong suit so can somebody explain how 2/3 of the 45 million owed to Lecavalier ended up working out to 32.67 million? I don't get it. My simple math says 2/3 of 45 is 30.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning-use-compliance-buyout-on-captain-vincent-lecavalier/


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    As you guys have seen, math isn't my strong suit so can somebody explain how 2/3 of the 45 million owed to Lecavalier ended up working out to 32.67 million? I don't get it. My simple math says 2/3 of 45 is 30.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tampa-bay-lightning-use-compliance-buyout-on-captain-vincent-lecavalier/


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    There is an 8 million dollar bonus that has to be paid in full i believe

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    BadHab didn't they waive Komisarek? I thought he went to the NYR?



    He's not with the Rangers.

    Part of the buyout process is that you have to go on waivers first.

    But then that confuses me again, the buyouts we're all talking about got put on waivers and then they anounced they intended to buy them out.

    Komiserak on the other hand got put on waivers back in March.  So maybe they put him on waivers again?

    Or maybe I got Komiserak's name from some wishful thinkings Leafs fan.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    There does seem to be some oddity with the numbers.  Over the rest of his contract, Lecavalier was due $45M in salary and $8M in signing bonuses (I remember wondering how those made sense when the contract was signed - signing bonuses in the middle?).  

    The only way I can think of to get that $32.67M number is if he only gets half of his bonus money counted at the onset, making the total $49M, then taking 2/3 of that.


    Okay, I've got it now.  That $45M he is due already includes his bonuses.  Take away $8M and he has $37M in salary; 2/3 of that is $24.67M; add the $8M back to get $32.67M.

    -- Proud user of Chambraigne; Now with Wiener Scent! --

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to DrCC's comment:

    There does seem to be some oddity with the numbers.  Over the rest of his contract, Lecavalier was due $45M in salary and $8M in signing bonuses (I remember wondering how those made sense when the contract was signed - signing bonuses in the middle?).  

    The only way I can think of to get that $32.67M number is if he only gets half of his bonus money counted at the onset, making the total $49M, then taking 2/3 of that.


    Okay, I've got it now.  That $45M he is due already includes his bonuses.  Take away $8M and he has $37M in salary; 2/3 of that is $24.67M; add the $8M back to get $32.67M.

    -- Proud user of Chambraigne; Now with Wiener Scent! --




    Gee...  I wish I got it now - the salary that is.  2/3 of one year of buyout salary would be major change to the financial landscape of the BadHab household.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    BadHab, except that you would be able to go out and get another job in additition to what you get paid from the buyout. Imagine 2/3 your salary and then adding your salary back (albeit at a bit of a pay cut) you would come out with more money.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    BadHab, except that you would be able to go out and get another job in additition to what you get paid from the buyout. Imagine 2/3 your salary and then adding your salary back (albeit at a bit of a pay cut) you would come out with more money.



    True, not a bad life.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    Right? Where do I sign up for that deal? haha

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to DrCC's comment:

    There does seem to be some oddity with the numbers.  Over the rest of his contract, Lecavalier was due $45M in salary and $8M in signing bonuses (I remember wondering how those made sense when the contract was signed - signing bonuses in the middle?).  

    The only way I can think of to get that $32.67M number is if he only gets half of his bonus money counted at the onset, making the total $49M, then taking 2/3 of that.


    Okay, I've got it now.  That $45M he is due already includes his bonuses.  Take away $8M and he has $37M in salary; 2/3 of that is $24.67M; add the $8M back to get $32.67M.

    -- Proud user of Chambraigne; Now with Wiener Scent! --



    Thanks, that makes perfect sense. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

     

    Right? Where do I sign up for that deal? haha

     



    I can't remember which players were the first to be bought out long ago but I do remember them cashing in big in the exact manner you're describing. Vinny is very likely to get 4+ per year from someone and probably more. Add to that the 2+ he gets from T bay for the next 14 years and he makes out like a bandit. 

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dave24. Show Dave24's posts

    Re: Buyout question?

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    That still doesn't make sense to me, Toronto would be spending half of Vinny's salary for a prospect - fine if you have money to burn - which they might, but still doesn't seem worth it.  Especially for Toronto where they should buy out Komiserak - and you could look around their roster and make an arguement for another player.

    It may not make sense for a player with a number of years left on their deal because of the cost, but it could also include salary dumps going back the other way (say Toronto sending Komisarek back to be bought out by TB). Or Philly trading Bryz for Vinny, both get bought out, and then both sign back with their 12-13 team under more managable deals.

     

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