Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but if u did not watch the series your opinion means...........very little.
    Posted by pauly1[/QUOTE]

    I've watched every game multiple times.


     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : I've watched every game multiple times.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE] So why do u neglect to tell both sides of the story? I'll bet if the USA was in Canada's shoes, u would be singing a different toon.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    And if the games were held today, Henderson would have been sitting in the "quiet room" while the Canadians might have been losing both the last 2 games.

    It was simply a different era then, I think we can agree on that.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    That kick could have crippled the guy, me thinks that makes a slash to an ankle looks like childs play. But then again u probably never even new that happened. Watching the replays years later is one thing, catching them live and herring all the post game analysis is another. Your opinions on this are garbage.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]And if the games were held today, Henderson would have been sitting in the "quiet room" while the Canadians might have been losing both the last 2 games. It was simply a different era then, I think we can agree on that.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE] At least u understand that. That was a different ERA, win at all costs.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : A slash that broke the ankle of the other team's best forward. I do not doubt that the Canadians won the Summit Series.  I just have never seen it as much more than a tainted victory.  At least most of the people here are objective about it.  Many Canadians that I've spoke with about this hold Clarke in high regard for this spineless move.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Brilliant, Amazing, Insightful.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]I barely remember that series and was living in Canada at the time.  I tend to agree with NAS more than anyone else here...not that NAS wants or needs support.
    Posted by Klaas[/QUOTE] Don't kid youself, he wants and needs support.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : So why do u neglect to tell both sides of the story? I'll bet if the USA was in Canada's shoes, u would be singing a different toon. Posted by pauly1[/QUOTE]

    USA didn't run out and break any Russian's ankles during the exhibition games leading up to the 80' Olympics nor during the game when the US upset USSR.

    Really liking the excuses for Bobby Clarke's cowardice  "The Russians were kicking Canadian players behind the play" and "Blatant two fisted hacks on ankles were common place in the NHL back then".

    Other than the reason Canada won I thought the series was great to watch.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : USA didn't run out and break any Russian's ankles during the exhibition games leading up to the 80' Olympics nor during the game when the US upset USSR. Really liking the excuses for Bobby Clarke's cowardice  "The Russians were kicking Canadian players behind the play" and "Blatant two fisted hacks on ankles were common place in the NHL back then". Other than the reason Canada won I thought the series was great to watch.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Very few here are "excusing" Clarks behavior.  What is ridiculous though, is any misguided assumption that the only reason Esposito and Co. won, was because of Clarks hack.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Very few here are "excusing" Clarks behavior.  What is ridiculous though, is any misguided assumption that the only reason Esposito and Co. won, was because of Clarks hack.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    When did the series turn ?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Very few here are "excusing" Clarks behavior.  What is ridiculous though, is any misguided assumption that the only reason Esposito and Co. won, was because of Clarks hack.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]
    So you don't think the Russians missed their best forward unable to play in Game 7, unaffective in Game 8, in both games won by Canada by exactly 1 goal. Now that's the heighth of misguided thinking.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RascalHoudi. Show RascalHoudi's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic.   Expecting a person who did not live through it as a Canadian to understand is totally unrealistic.

    I excuse Nas' sheltered view for what it is.  Trying to analyze historic events from notes, books and videos does have some value, but it doesn't hold a candle to living and breathing the experience.  That's just fact.

    There has never been an NHL series to rival the emotion, distrust and hate on both sides.  With the comraderie and friendships between opposing players, there never will be.  Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die.

    To try and reduce the outcome of this series to one event is misinformed and ludicrous.  Trying to apply today's values and judgement to this is an exercise in futility.

    Enough about Clarke's slash- it was one moment of many from both sides of the ice.  It's just a pissing contest to start stacking up moments like this as both teams were guilty.

    The original point of this thread was Soxfan asking if the Canadian fan's behaviour in game 4 was representative of the entire country.

    While the booing was not,  the feeling of shock and disbelief was.

    Every country has things that they pride themselves on, and for years Canada was unchallenged for hockey talent worldwide.   The NHL had a spattering on non-Canadian players, but they were a rarity.  I'd be surprised if any of the NHL teams had more than 2 or 3 non Canadian players on their roster. 

    After years of dominating Olympic golds and world Championships with amateur teams (professionals were not allowed), the Soviets upped their hockey program in the 1950's by essentially using professional hockey players but presenting them as amateurs because they were in the military.   The Canadian public was able to easily dismiss the Soviet success as they were only playing against amateur players and 'if they ever played our pros, we'd mop the floor with them'. 

    When Eagleson pushed the series through, the general attitude in Canada was pretty will a big smirk as we were about to show the Russians what hockey was about.  Advance scouts had gone to see the Russians play and they saw Tretiak who couldn't stop a beach ball the day they saw him.  (The scouts didn't know that Tretiaks stag was the night before and he was severely hung over). 

    I remember seeing a Toronto Star article with 8 of the biggest hockey minds in Canada giving their predictions.  Most predicted an 8 game sweep for Canada.  One or two brave ones predicted that one game may end in a tie.  I don't believe that any of them had the Russians winnng even one game.

    After two quick Canadian goals to start game 1, it looked like the party was on.  Then things changed abruptly and the out of shape Canadians who had shown up after the summer at their cottages just couldn't keep up.  The country was in shock and disbelief. 

    2 games later the series stood at 1-1-1 and game 4 began.  When the Russians held on and were getting ready to leave Canada with a 2-1-1 lead, the boobirds started.  Personally,  I was like most people here - numb with shock.. but still blown away that people would boo them.

    I don't consider the booing to be representative of the entire country,  but Espo's grabbing the mike after the game was a galvanizing moment for the team and really showed him moving into a leadership role for the rest of the series.



     





     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    Good response, Rascal.  As a 16 year old living in Boston, I followed the series intently as a hockey fan, and with the pride of a pro-NHL fan, so I understood the disillusionment and even anger at the time.  The response wasn't like that around New England because clearly the emotional tie to hockey supremacy was felt by Canadians, not those in the US.

    What caused my question was the obvious vitriol, way past anger, that I saw in re-watching the highlights of the game in Vancouver.  Obviously after witnessing the behavior of Vancouver hockey fans last year, since that time and also in 1994, the painfully obvious question was, was this type of venom all across Canada, or is this just the way Vancouver fans behave?  I'm sure they (the team) were ripped all over North America... deservedly so for being ineffective, not for lack of effort.  I just wondered about how those fans that day compared to Canadian fans all over.

    For reference, I remember my Canadian friends who were either hockey fans or guys I played against, who seemed more embarrassed and sad than anything.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic.   Expecting a person who did not live through it as a Canadian to understand is totally unrealistic. I excuse Nas' sheltered view for what it is.  Trying to analyze historic events from notes, books and videos does have some value, but it doesn't hold a candle to living and breathing the experience.  That's just fact. There has never been an NHL series to rival the emotion, distrust and hate on both sides.  With the comraderie and friendships between opposing players, there never will be.  Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die. To try and reduce the outcome of this series to one event is misinformed and ludicrous.  Trying to apply today's values and judgement to this is an exercise in futility. Enough about Clarke's slash- it was one moment of many from both sides of the ice.  It's just a pissing contest to start stacking up moments like this as both teams were guilty. The original point of this thread was Soxfan asking if the Canadian fan's behaviour in game 4 was representative of the entire country. While the booing was not,  the feeling of shock and disbelief was. Every country has things that they pride themselves on, and for years Canada was unchallenged for hockey talent worldwide.   The NHL had a spattering on non-Canadian players, but they were a rarity.  I'd be surprised if any of the NHL teams had more than 2 or 3 non Canadian players on their roster.  After years of dominating Olympic golds and world Championships with amateur teams (professionals were not allowed), the Soviets upped their hockey program in the 1950's by essentially using professional hockey players but presenting them as amateurs because they were in the military.   The Canadian public was able to easily dismiss the Soviet success as they were only playing against amateur players and 'if they ever played our pros, we'd mop the floor with them'.  When Eagleson pushed the series through, the general attitude in Canada was pretty will a big smirk as we were about to show the Russians what hockey was about.  Advance scouts had gone to see the Russians play and they saw Tretiak who couldn't stop a beach ball the day they saw him.  (The scouts didn't know that Tretiaks stag was the night before and he was severely hung over).  I remember seeing a Toronto Star article with 8 of the biggest hockey minds in Canada giving their predictions.  Most predicted an 8 game sweep for Canada.  One or two brave ones predicted that one game may end in a tie.  I don't believe that any of them had the Russians winnng even one game. After two quick Canadian goals to start game 1, it looked like the party was on.  Then things changed abruptly and the out of shape Canadians who had shown up after the summer at their cottages just couldn't keep up.  The country was in shock and disbelief.  2 games later the series stood at 1-1-1 and game 4 began.  When the Russians held on and were getting ready to leave Canada with a 2-1-1 lead, the boobirds started.  Personally,  I was like most people here - numb with shock.. but still blown away that people would boo them. I don't consider the booing to be representative of the entire country,  but Espo's grabbing the mike after the game was a galvanizing moment for the team and really showed him moving into a leadership role for the rest of the series.  
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]
    A better post has never graced this forum. Well done!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

              "Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die."

                    I would never agree with that no way!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : So you don't think the Russians missed their best forward unable to play in Game 7, unaffective in Game 8, in both games won by Canada by exactly 1 goal. Now that's the heighth of misguided thinking.
    Posted by Klaas[/QUOTE]

    It's a team game folks.  I never said the Ruskies didn't miss Kharlamov.  That doesn't mean he's the only reason they lost.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : When did the series turn ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]


    Actually, the Canadians dominated at various times, blowing big leads.  Many independant observers suggested the Canadians were hopelessly out of shape, and totally unprepared.  The expectation in Canada wasn't to win, but dominate.  Pretty much the whole industry bought in, and it took a while to iron out the kinks.
    In the end, there was a lot learned. Plenty of the drama was rooted in our western insecuruities regarding the Soviets, and vice versa.  Thankfully we've grown.  Just a few short years later, guys like Tretiak and Yakuchev were warmly welcomed, and now, there really are no borders.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : USA didn't run out and break any Russian's ankles during the exhibition games leading up to the 80' Olympics nor during the game when the US upset USSR. Really liking the excuses for Bobby Clarke's cowardice  "The Russians were kicking Canadian players behind the play" and "Blatant two fisted hacks on ankles were common place in the NHL back then". Other than the reason Canada won I thought the series was great to watch.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Does that mean the behavior demonstrated by Clark doesn't happen in America?at
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Does that mean the behavior demonstrated by Clark doesn't happen in America?at Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    Just tune into an NBA game.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Just tune into an NBA game.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Three away from joining dez, brother.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GillesGilbert. Show GillesGilbert's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    Weren't there like 35 guys named to the Canadian team and they were all expecting to play. And if you don't think that the Communist Russians tried every dirty trick in the book - both on and off the ice - then you're very sadly mistaken. This was about proving which ideology was better. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]It really was a classic "Dream Team" example of what happens when you take essentially the most gifted individuals in the world, throw them out on the ice with basically no practice together whatsoever and get shocked when a "team" runs them over.  It took them quite awhile (and half a world) to figure out what hit them.  I found it really interesting when they spoke about them coming together as a "team" while on the road, bonding as mates and forgetting their NHL rivalries.  It makes me think of the B's coming together in 2011 in Europe and on the road and through team-building excercises. Such things seem silly, but in hockey that connection really matters. Regarding Clarke, it was ugly.  It was also 1972, and I have to say I wasnt all that horrified at the time. Im still not.  Plus, what Ferguson said to Clarke wasnt really a directive to take him out, even if a wink was involved.  I wonder what happened with Bertuzzi/Crawford? And it's very true the Soviets were not above dirty tricks, including the referees in Game 8, trying to refuse to let the Canadian players' wives attend in Russia and other assorted garbage. Cashman was taken out of the series from a stick blade vs Sweden directly to the face. I'm just not sure given the era and the circumstances if it was the assassination people are making it out to be.  Certainly Clarke enjoys the attention today. Actually, I was more horrified by J P Parise's behavior to that ref than what Clarke did. I was absolutely shocked at how bad both Dryden and Esposito looked.  They really were not factors at all.  They could have used the #3 guy... Ed Johnston!!
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
    Dryden was especially weak! Tony O' came around in Russia where he played much better.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : So you don't think the Russians missed their best forward unable to play in Game 7, unaffective in Game 8, in both games won by Canada by exactly 1 goal. Now that's the heighth of misguided thinking.
    Posted by Klaas[/QUOTE]
    And you don't think Canada didn't miss the best player on the plantet? Or the hardest shot of all time in Bobby Hull? Brutal arguement!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic. 
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]

    I have watched each game as everyone who "lived through it" did.  In fact, I've probably seen many more things than those who watched it on their grainy tvs one time.

    I have read the articles and seen the interviews.

    No matter the feeling at the time, the games are still the games, watched live or on replay later.  Time has not changed the plays or the outcomes.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : I have watched each game as everyone who "lived through it" did.  In fact, I've probably seen many more things than those who watched it on their grainy tvs one time. I have read the articles and seen the interviews. No matter the feeling at the time, the games are still the games, watched live or on replay later.  Time has not changed the plays or the outcomes.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely.  One didn't need to be there.  If one watched each game several times, read numerous articles( and were curious to not just read the ones that supported the previous articles), if you watched the interviews, and understood the politics...you should be able to catch a glimpse.  Living and understanding the culture of the day is big though.  This was much more than a hockey series.  This was communism vs democracy, and all the baggage that came with it.  Drama, contempt, conspiracy, fear, and loathing.
     
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