Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Just tune into an NBA game.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    or maybe a figure skating event?
     
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    [QUOTE]Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic.   Expecting a person who did not live through it as a Canadian to understand is totally unrealistic. I excuse Nas' sheltered view for what it is.  Trying to analyze historic events from notes, books and videos does have some value, but it doesn't hold a candle to living and breathing the experience.  That's just fact. There has never been an NHL series to rival the emotion, distrust and hate on both sides.  With the comraderie and friendships between opposing players, there never will be.  Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die. To try and reduce the outcome of this series to one event is misinformed and ludicrous.  Trying to apply today's values and judgement to this is an exercise in futility. Enough about Clarke's slash- it was one moment of many from both sides of the ice.  It's just a pissing contest to start stacking up moments like this as both teams were guilty. The original point of this thread was Soxfan asking if the Canadian fan's behaviour in game 4 was representative of the entire country. While the booing was not,  the feeling of shock and disbelief was. Every country has things that they pride themselves on, and for years Canada was unchallenged for hockey talent worldwide.   The NHL had a spattering on non-Canadian players, but they were a rarity.  I'd be surprised if any of the NHL teams had more than 2 or 3 non Canadian players on their roster.  After years of dominating Olympic golds and world Championships with amateur teams (professionals were not allowed), the Soviets upped their hockey program in the 1950's by essentially using professional hockey players but presenting them as amateurs because they were in the military.   The Canadian public was able to easily dismiss the Soviet success as they were only playing against amateur players and 'if they ever played our pros, we'd mop the floor with them'.  When Eagleson pushed the series through, the general attitude in Canada was pretty will a big smirk as we were about to show the Russians what hockey was about.  Advance scouts had gone to see the Russians play and they saw Tretiak who couldn't stop a beach ball the day they saw him.  (The scouts didn't know that Tretiaks stag was the night before and he was severely hung over).  I remember seeing a Toronto Star article with 8 of the biggest hockey minds in Canada giving their predictions.  Most predicted an 8 game sweep for Canada.  One or two brave ones predicted that one game may end in a tie.  I don't believe that any of them had the Russians winnng even one game. After two quick Canadian goals to start game 1, it looked like the party was on.  Then things changed abruptly and the out of shape Canadians who had shown up after the summer at their cottages just couldn't keep up.  The country was in shock and disbelief.  2 games later the series stood at 1-1-1 and game 4 began.  When the Russians held on and were getting ready to leave Canada with a 2-1-1 lead, the boobirds started.  Personally,  I was like most people here - numb with shock.. but still blown away that people would boo them. I don't consider the booing to be representative of the entire country,  but Espo's grabbing the mike after the game was a galvanizing moment for the team and really showed him moving into a leadership role for the rest of the series.  
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]

    I don't normally stop to read TLDR posts but I did with this one. Your first few paragraphs caught my attention ( well said and how true ) and I continued to read the rest.

    Fantastic post !
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : And you don't think Canada didn't miss the best player on the plantet? Or the hardest shot of all time in Bobby Hull? Brutal arguement! Posted by nitemare-38[/QUOTE]

    Not really Nite the two Bobby's weren't taken out by a hatchet chop from a Russian. You are right though when you look at what might have been, thinking of  what Orr did in 76' on one knee.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OrrandPapiRGods. Show OrrandPapiRGods's posts

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    [QUOTE]Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic.   Expecting a person who did not live through it as a Canadian to understand is totally unrealistic. I excuse Nas' sheltered view for what it is.  Trying to analyze historic events from notes, books and videos does have some value, but it doesn't hold a candle to living and breathing the experience.  That's just fact. There has never been an NHL series to rival the emotion, distrust and hate on both sides.  With the comraderie and friendships between opposing players, there never will be.  Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die. To try and reduce the outcome of this series to one event is misinformed and ludicrous.  Trying to apply today's values and judgement to this is an exercise in futility. Enough about Clarke's slash- it was one moment of many from both sides of the ice.  It's just a pissing contest to start stacking up moments like this as both teams were guilty. The original point of this thread was Soxfan asking if the Canadian fan's behaviour in game 4 was representative of the entire country. While the booing was not,  the feeling of shock and disbelief was. Every country has things that they pride themselves on, and for years Canada was unchallenged for hockey talent worldwide.   The NHL had a spattering on non-Canadian players, but they were a rarity.  I'd be surprised if any of the NHL teams had more than 2 or 3 non Canadian players on their roster.  After years of dominating Olympic golds and world Championships with amateur teams (professionals were not allowed), the Soviets upped their hockey program in the 1950's by essentially using professional hockey players but presenting them as amateurs because they were in the military.   The Canadian public was able to easily dismiss the Soviet success as they were only playing against amateur players and 'if they ever played our pros, we'd mop the floor with them'.  When Eagleson pushed the series through, the general attitude in Canada was pretty will a big smirk as we were about to show the Russians what hockey was about.  Advance scouts had gone to see the Russians play and they saw Tretiak who couldn't stop a beach ball the day they saw him.  (The scouts didn't know that Tretiaks stag was the night before and he was severely hung over).  I remember seeing a Toronto Star article with 8 of the biggest hockey minds in Canada giving their predictions.  Most predicted an 8 game sweep for Canada.  One or two brave ones predicted that one game may end in a tie.  I don't believe that any of them had the Russians winnng even one game. After two quick Canadian goals to start game 1, it looked like the party was on.  Then things changed abruptly and the out of shape Canadians who had shown up after the summer at their cottages just couldn't keep up.  The country was in shock and disbelief.  2 games later the series stood at 1-1-1 and game 4 began.  When the Russians held on and were getting ready to leave Canada with a 2-1-1 lead, the boobirds started.  Personally,  I was like most people here - numb with shock.. but still blown away that people would boo them. I don't consider the booing to be representative of the entire country,  but Espo's grabbing the mike after the game was a galvanizing moment for the team and really showed him moving into a leadership role for the rest of the series.  
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]

    Great post!!!  I lived through it as a Canadian kid that lived and breathed hockey, 365, 24/7.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    To put a Bruin spin on this whole thing:

    The 72' Summit Series taught us two things.

    1. It was a close series because of Bobby Orr's absence.
    2. Bobby Clarke would maim his own mother to win.

    As an aside, do any of you remember the '74 Cup Final? Do you remember what Clarke was doing to Orr every game. It was brutal and at times viscious. It was worse than what Samuelsson was doing to Neely. It was the only reason Flyers beat the Bruins.

    Do you remember who coached the Bruins that year?
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Not really Nite the two Bobby's weren't taken out by a hatchet chop from a Russian. You are right though when you look at what might have been thinking of  what Orr did in 76' on one knee.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]


    translation please?
     
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    [QUOTE]To put a Bruin spin on this whole thing: The 72' Summit Series taught us two things. 1. It was a close series because of Bobby Orr's absence. 2. Bobby Clarke would maim his own mother to win. As an aside, do any of you remember the '74 Cup Final? Do you remember what Clarke was doing to Orr every game. It was brutal and at times viscious. It was worse than what Samuelsson was doing to Neely. It was the only reason Flyers beat the Bruins. Do you remember who coached the Bruins that year?
    Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    I believe it was Bep Guidolin(not sure about the spelling)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : And you don't think Canada didn't miss the best player on the plantet? Or the hardest shot of all time in Bobby Hull? Brutal arguement!
    Posted by nitemare-38[/QUOTE]
    Actually Bobby's brother Dennis had a harder shot than Bobby Hull. Also, I'm not saying Russia was a better team than Canada in that series. The biggest reason why Canada didn't completely blow Russia out of the pond back then, as in losing at most 1 game due to a lucky bounce, even without #4 and #9, was because Team Canada didn't practice much for that series as a team, especially compared to the Soviets (as in living together and practicing every day of the year, and for many years).

    But given the team that Team Canada had, it is easy to understand why John Ferguson said that Kharlamov was killing Canada and somebody had to take him out. Of couse I don't agree with the premedidated action of Clarke as a result of Fergie's talk with Clarke.

    And yes it is true that hockey is a team sport, but you see individual players coming up big and single handedly winning games from time to time...maybe Kharlamov would have back then.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Actually Bobby's brother Dennis had a harder shot than Bobby Hull. Also, I'm not saying Russia was a better team than Canada in that series. The biggest reason why Canada didn't completely blow Russia out of the pond back then, as in losing at most 1 game due to a lucky bounce, even without #4 and #9, was because Team Canada didn't practice much for that series as a team, especially compared to the Soviets (as in living together and practicing every day of the year, and for many years). But given the team that Team Canada had, it is easy to understand why John Ferguson said that Kharlamov was killing Canada and somebody had to take him out. Of couse I don't agree with the premedidated action of Clarke as a result of Fergie's talk with Clarke. And yes it is true that hockey is a team sport, but you see individual players coming up big and single handedly winning games from time to time...maybe Kharlamov would have back then.
    Posted by Klaas[/QUOTE]
    OK that's a far better explaination than your previous post. However, hindsight is 20/20. You can also say what if (can't remember what player it was) didn't come off the ice when Henderson was screaming at him to come off! Would Canada have scored? Saying that a slash was the reason Canada won that series is a little bit over the top.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : I believe it was Bep Guidolin(not sure about the spelling)
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    Bep it was. And the spelling is correct.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Absolutely.  One didn't need to be there.  If one watched each game several times, read numerous articles( and were curious to not just read the ones that supported the previous articles), if you watched the interviews, and understood the politics...you should be able to catch a glimpse.  Living and understanding the culture of the day is big though.  This was much more than a hockey series.  This was communism vs democracy, and all the baggage that came with it.  Drama, contempt, conspiracy, fear, and loathing.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    I don't care about politics.

    In a hockey conversation, Clarke pulled off one of the most disgusting acts ever in order to gain advantage and eventually win.


     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    Yeah but NAS, in the '72 series, you can't ignore the additional dimension of the politics.  It hung over the series like a cloud.

    No different than the 1980 Olympics. Probably worse.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : I don't care about politics. In a hockey conversation, Clarke pulled off one of the most disgusting acts ever in order to gain advantage and eventually win.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    It's fine that you don't care about the politics, but the fact is politics took this thing to another level.  As someone keenly stated earlier here, it was much bigger than a hockey game, it was communism vs democracy.  That is part of the hockey conversation.  Yes, Clark pulled off a "disgusting act", but that doesn't taint the series. or the game, or his country of origin.  It taints him.  There was all kinds of crap coming from the Ruskies too.  At the time, even more despicable than a fierce slash....was a kick.  It's well documented there was a fair amount of that going on, courtesy of the USSR.  To think a "win at all cost" mentality was more prevalent in the early 70's in Canadian hockey, than the predominantly staffed Soviet Red Army team, is ludicrous. The Canadian team went into that like the Bruins Alumni would go into Caribou Maine.  The Soviets were training and scheming for years.
    The sports world is littered with those who would run over Grandma to win.  Any assumption that happens with more regularity in Canada is also ludicrous.
    Unfortunately, a hockey player, bent on "taking someone out", ain't that much of an oddity.  Thankfully, it is less tolerated now, than it was then.  It should also be pointed out, that it was much less tolerated in 1972, than it was in 1952. That series is widely regarded as one of the most riveting in history.  To sum it all up, by one dumb move by Bobby Clark, is really missing a lot.
     
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    [QUOTE]Expecting somebody who did not live through this series to understand the nuances of it is unrealistic.   Expecting a person who did not live through it as a Canadian to understand is totally unrealistic. I excuse Nas' sheltered view for what it is.  Trying to analyze historic events from notes, books and videos does have some value, but it doesn't hold a candle to living and breathing the experience.  That's just fact. There has never been an NHL series to rival the emotion, distrust and hate on both sides.  With the comraderie and friendships between opposing players, there never will be.  Olympics?   The players try, but it's far from do or die. To try and reduce the outcome of this series to one event is misinformed and ludicrous.  Trying to apply today's values and judgement to this is an exercise in futility. Enough about Clarke's slash- it was one moment of many from both sides of the ice.  It's just a pissing contest to start stacking up moments like this as both teams were guilty. The original point of this thread was Soxfan asking if the Canadian fan's behaviour in game 4 was representative of the entire country. While the booing was not,  the feeling of shock and disbelief was. Every country has things that they pride themselves on, and for years Canada was unchallenged for hockey talent worldwide.   The NHL had a spattering on non-Canadian players, but they were a rarity.  I'd be surprised if any of the NHL teams had more than 2 or 3 non Canadian players on their roster.  After years of dominating Olympic golds and world Championships with amateur teams (professionals were not allowed), the Soviets upped their hockey program in the 1950's by essentially using professional hockey players but presenting them as amateurs because they were in the military.   The Canadian public was able to easily dismiss the Soviet success as they were only playing against amateur players and 'if they ever played our pros, we'd mop the floor with them'.  When Eagleson pushed the series through, the general attitude in Canada was pretty will a big smirk as we were about to show the Russians what hockey was about.  Advance scouts had gone to see the Russians play and they saw Tretiak who couldn't stop a beach ball the day they saw him.  (The scouts didn't know that Tretiaks stag was the night before and he was severely hung over).  I remember seeing a Toronto Star article with 8 of the biggest hockey minds in Canada giving their predictions.  Most predicted an 8 game sweep for Canada.  One or two brave ones predicted that one game may end in a tie.  I don't believe that any of them had the Russians winnng even one game. After two quick Canadian goals to start game 1, it looked like the party was on.  Then things changed abruptly and the out of shape Canadians who had shown up after the summer at their cottages just couldn't keep up.  The country was in shock and disbelief.  2 games later the series stood at 1-1-1 and game 4 began.  When the Russians held on and were getting ready to leave Canada with a 2-1-1 lead, the boobirds started.  Personally,  I was like most people here - numb with shock.. but still blown away that people would boo them. I don't consider the booing to be representative of the entire country,  but Espo's grabbing the mike after the game was a galvanizing moment for the team and really showed him moving into a leadership role for the rest of the series.  
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]

    The above does in fact really sum up the realities of this tournament, in a clear, concise, objective fashion.  One of the most insifgtful, objective posts ever.
    Congratulations Rascal
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?:[QUOTE] To put a Bruin spin on this whole thing: The 72' Summit Series taught us two things. 1. It was a close series because of Bobby Orr's absence. 2. Bobby Clarke would maim his own mother to win.  Do you remember who coached the Bruins that year ? Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    Yah that is what I was mentioning in a response to nite. If both Bobby's or just one of them played in the series it wouldn't have been no contest. Look what Orr did on one barely good knee during the 76' Canada Cup.

    Bep "Beppy" Guildon was the 74' coach. He was fired during the middle of the 73' season but brought back to help the Bs win 52 games. He and Espo must have tore up the North End back then.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : It's fine that you don't care about the politics, but the fact is politics took this thing to another level. 
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    And all of that is great for those who care to discuss the political side of it.  I don't.  I am interested in what happen from when the puck dropped to when the final second ticked from each game.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : And all of that is great for those who care to discuss the political side of it.  I don't.  I am interested in what happen from when the puck dropped to when the final second ticked from each game.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE] It's almost a shame that such an avid hockey fan like yourself had to miss out on this series. The off ice antics by the russians after we crossed the border is something that had to be witnessed (live) or u would not believe. They did everything they could to sabatoge a canadian win. I will not elaborate because u refuse to listen, and do not understand..........Again, sorry u missed out.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : It's almost a shame that such an avid hockey fan like yourself had to miss out on this series. The off ice antics by the russians after we crossed the border are something that had to be witnessed (live) or u would not believe. They did everything they could to sabatoge a canadian win. I will not elaborate because u refuse to listen, and do not understand..........Again, sorry u missed out.
    Posted by pauly1[/QUOTE]

    You know what I didn't miss?  The hockey.  That's all I care about.  You can have plenty of fun with the "Dude, I was there" chats with the old men down at the pub.  I'll stick to discussing the actual topic:  hockey.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : You know what I didn't miss?  The hockey.  That's all I care about.  You can have plenty of fun with the "Dude, I was there" chats with the old men down at the pub.  I'll stick to discussing the actual topic:  hockey.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE] This is one series that it was much more than hockey. U missed it so u don't now anything
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : This is one series that it was much more than hockey. U missed it so u don't now anything
    Posted by pauly1[/QUOTE]

    Yes, from what I gather, it was much better than hockey.   It was democracy vs. communism and the Canadian fans booed their own players.

    I understand now.


     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : Yes, from what I gather, it was much better than hockey.   It was democracy vs. communism and the Canadian fans booed their own players. I understand now.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    yes, the fans boo'd their own team at one point in the series.  that type of thing is really not that unusual nas.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : yes, the fans boo'd their own team at one point in the series.  that type of thing is really not that unusual nas.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE] Happens quite offen. Try playing for the habs.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : yes, the fans boo'd their own team at one point in the series.  that type of thing is really not that unusual nas.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    It is quite unusual in international competition.  I can't recall the US fans booing the US squad.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans? : It is quite unusual in international competition.  I can't recall the US fans booing the US squad.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE] That's because they are expected to lose somewhere along the line.
     
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    Re: Canada Cup documentary / Vancouver fans?

    Silver medal to Canada is complete and total failure, and yes we have had many failures.
     

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