CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    What puzzles me is that, for the players, the whole thing (like the owners) should be about growing revenue.  Let's assume that the revenue numbers are correct, and the figure is $3.3b. Even in a best case scenario, with nearly 1/4 of the season gone, revenue for this year would be $2.48b (assuming proportional distribution of revenues over the season).  It also means that 1/4 of the salary has gone poof (according to Sportsnet.ca, $177.8m and counting).

    For the players, wouldn't they have wanted 50% of $3.3b, vs. 52%, 54%, 56% (whatever their final figure) of $2.4b?  With the cancellation of the Winter Classic, the loss of the casual fan, the likely loss of corporate sponsorship, what is the likelihood of the revenues in the first post-lockout year hitting $3.3b?  I'd say that there are two chances of that happening: slim and none.

    From the owners' POV, losing 1/4 of your salary cost is no big deal, especially if you can potentially recover revenues lost in the first 1/4 with a playoff run (when players earn $0 salaries).

    It seems to me that the owners stand to gain from a protracted stoppage (aside from the lost potential revenues from disinterested parties, as discussed above), while the players lose, no matter what happens.  From their standpoint, it's now a matter of minimizing losses, not making gains.

    As businessmen, the owners understand this, and thus are pushing Bettman.  The players, on the other hand, are not savvy businessmen, and are basically drinking whatever Kool-Aid that Fehr is feeding them.  And since Fehr, in my opinion, is more interested in protecting his carefully crafted reputation as a bargaining genius, he's not willing to back down in the face of Bettman and the owners, despite the harm being done to his constituents.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    _____________________________

    The NHL is a partnership sharing revenue, furniture stores is not a fair comparison (BTW didn't JJ start out in furniture).  The NHLPA is also not thinking of all the players but only to maintain an influence on the players to keep it's existance.  Neither the NHL or the NHLPA are truly businesses.  

    To add, cost accounting once again raises it's ugly head when calculating revenue for the NHL and the individual teams.  So SteveGM you are correct to criticize the Winnipeg argument posed by North.  I also agree that the two are close to agreement.  Why does it not seem that way, cause the conversations between Fehr and Bettman are not formalized in a traditional meeting format.  50/50% is correct, roll backs are not part of the picture, and a scheme of six years or so will make the two sides agree on those conditions.  Cheers, meanwhile I suffer!

     




    I'm thinkin "franchise' furniture stores, and they are a reasonable comparison.  They share in some expenses, and leverage overall economies of scale, but they're hardly partners.  They compete ferociously.  As an operating business, they do nothing to help the other in the course of normal daily activities.



    Agree to a point, but if my wife and I need a bedroom set, we can go to Jordans, Bernie and Phyls, Bobs, and local ones.  Competition abounds, with the NHL it is the KHL.  Ahhh not the same thing imo.  Essentially the NHL has a monopoly on elite professional hockey in North America.  Now the furniture analogy is stil not the same even with the economies of scale argument.  OMG I wish I was talking about Hamilton, Seguin, and Rask rather than the efffing CBA stuff.  The thing is I understand both sides of the argument, both are logical.   



    Can't have much of a conversation with that philosophy.   :)



    The only thing I can say is you don't bother to read my posts not only on this thread.  I do read yours though.  I will not go into my "free enterprize/free labor" elongated philosophy.  All I can say is owners and players have a right to promote their interest.  I can have a conversation but not with the legalese mumbo jumbo bantered by both sides.  

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games


     

    CBA stuff.  The thing is I understand both sides of the argument, both are logical.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Can't have much of a conversation with that philosophy.   :)

    [/QUOTE]

    The only thing I can say is you don't bother to read my posts not only on this thread.  I do read yours though.  I will not go into my "free enterprize/free labor" elongated philosophy.  All I can say is owners and players have a right to promote their interest.  I can have a conversation but not with the legalese mumbo jumbo bantered by both sides.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Whoa!  I do read and enjoy your posts.  The above was  light hearted hyperbole regarding your ability to see the big picture.  Meant as a compliment to the way you thoughtfully contribute here.

    The smile :)  was meant to accentuate that point. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    This is a big mistake. Very bad for the NHL, that was on an upswing.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    There is a lot of talk about the loss of the casual fan.  I don't see the merit.  How would this happen?  Someone watches a lot of hockey for a couple of years and enjoys it, but if a few months are canceled, the person no longer likes it?

     

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    There is a lot of talk about the loss of the casual fan.  I don't see the merit.  How would this happen?  Someone watches a lot of hockey for a couple of years and enjoys it, but if a few months are canceled, the person no longer likes it?

     

     




    I think the huge spike in recent growth heightens that potential.  The NHL was very stable for decades, then grew at an unprecedented rate over a few years.(33%) Of course that was money, but it equates to interest/fans.  As that came out of the blue,...it can also leave.

    Even without a work stoppage, it's quite possible NHL numbers could wane a bit.  Growth doesn't happen forever, and being "out of sight, out of mind" doesn't help.

    On the other hand, it's also possible the lockout could have the opposite effect too.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    I am supposing here, but, the new CBA will involve realignment and playoff format.  That said once large market team ie. NY Rangers faces a team like Detriot in the Stanley Cup finals then the so-called casual fans will return along with new "younger" fans.  Avid hockey fans will always return imo, there is no way I will watch Basketball if the NHL returns.  Will hockey ever usurp any other of the four sports in NA?  I really don't care, it is the best game in the world to this fan.  

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    Still amazes me that all these fools let this happen. Both sides knew when the CBA ended and did nothing to get a deal done. MLB was in the same boat but both sides started working on the new deal a yr prior to it ending and they hammered out a deal. Silly that these fools couldn't do the same. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    The worst thing will be if the final agreement comes in at 50-50.  We'll all be saying: "It took you guys all this time, and all these lost games, to get to the logical settlement point?"

     

    What a bunch of morons.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to 49-North's comment:

    The worst thing will be if the final agreement comes in at 50-50.  We'll all be saying: "It took you guys all this time, and all these lost games, to get to the logical settlement point?"

     

    What a bunch of morons.




    In a way I agree, but in reality this is just rhetoric, as is everything we have read.  My belief is that no matter what deal ultimately gets signed, in the end it will be called a 50/50 deal, or at the very least a deal that goes to 50/50 by terms end.  How can we possibly know the outcome before the process plays out?  We can postulate this because in the end it will be in both sides best interests to hug say wonderful things about eachother and to say this is a partnership moving forward (again).  The reality is, that the true negotiating battle will be regarding HRR, and most of us will not know how jersey sales are defined, or even how much impact apparel sales have on the total value of HRR.  For me, and I assume for most fans, almost everything about HRR will remain a mystery making the term "50/50 split" arbitrary rhetoric.

    I will be interested to come here though to see what all of you think about the HRR definitions, because I do suspect you all will have insights on the final definition of this term.

    Look forward to chatting about camp battles and ideal lines, talk to you all soon I hope.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to ipotnyc's comment:

    They need to put a lockout in the calendar every 7 years. At this rate the NHL just might contract to a 6 team league by 2019.....




    +1. At this point I hope the owners keep their lockout in place long enough for the players to start their own league.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to carnie's comment:



    +1. At this point I hope the owners keep their lockout in place long enough for the players to start their own league.




    The players aren't smart enough or rich enough to start their own league.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:



    +1. At this point I hope the owners keep their lockout in place long enough for the players to start their own league.




    The players aren't smart enough or rich enough to start their own league.




     

    Are they smart enough to hire people who can start their own league?

    They could play in the smaller venues that college and jr. a & others might rent to them.  They would take an ENORMOUS pay cut for a few years, but after a few years I think the owners would cave or at least the ones who are still around.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

     

    Are they smart enough to hire people who can start their own league?

    They could play in the smaller venues that college and jr. a & others might rent to them.  They would take an ENORMOUS pay cut for a few years, but after a few years I think the owners would cave or at least the ones who are still around.

    [/QUOTE]

    This would be interesting.  I've thought of this as well. I'd love to see the teams stay intact and play out of the same region their NHL roots were (other than moving stupidly located franchises to Canada).  This would keep the hard core fans in it for a while anyway. 

    What would end up happening would be group of NHLPA teams playing and the NHL teams filled with rookies and minor league fringe players and paying them better than the NHLPA league.  Over time the NHLPA league would be old timers and washed up players and the NHL would again be the elite. 

    Nice thought but over time not sustainable. 

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    Are they smart enough to hire people who can start their own league?

    They could play in the smaller venues that college and jr. a & others might rent to them.  They would take an ENORMOUS pay cut for a few years, but after a few years I think the owners would cave or at least the ones who are still around.



    They have it made right now.  Goons are making seven figures.  All of their needs are met.  Life is freakin' great for every single one of them.

    And no, they are not smart enough to hire people to start a new league.  New leagues don't work, let alone having a bunch of farm boys with GEDs making decisions.  See the USFL, WHA and XFL for more on this.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    The only way the players could start their own league is to get new billionaries to fund it. The players need the owners, without them the players wouldnt make money. I doubt any owner became rich because of owning an NHL team. They were rich long before they became one.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: CBC: NHL to Cancel All November Games

    Via Twitter Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

    "NHLPA negotiating committee conference call, Sunday at 3:30 PM (Eastern). #TSN"

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Bill+Daly+says+marathon+session+with+Steve+Fehr+covered+ground/7496313/story.html

    Just finish this up now for Petes sake...

     
  • Sections
    Shortcuts

    Share