Clown vs. Clown

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Today's article about Thornton fighting his former teammates, and a good friend reinforces how ridiculous the staged fight is.  As has been stated before, fights should be born out of emotion, anger, frustration.  They are not dates. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    They probably map it out in an e-mail before the game....

    Fighting does nothing - actually, that's not true -

    Fighting diminishes everyone
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]Today's article about Thornton fighting his former teammates, and a good friend reinforces how ridiculous the staged fight is.  As has been stated before, fights should be born out of emotion, anger, frustration.  They are not dates. 
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]
    Agreed Scooter. Strangely enough, I think the article's intention was to applaud Thornton and his willingness to fill his role but it made it seem foolish instead.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown : On one hand you are saying that you can't intimidate anymore, but on the other you are implying that the Bruins do intimidate the Leafs by saying that Rosehill & Orr may be in the game Saturday night.  Am I reading htis correctly?
    Posted by MeanE[/QUOTE]
    MeanE, I'll be interested to see who the Leafs do end up dressing Saturday. It'll say something about Thornton's role moving forward if he plays while the Leafs don't dress a scrapper. A question I've always had about Thornton is does he need to play 82 games?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Thornton did have a great Final last year - and if he intimidated or made a Canuck get rid of a puck ill-advisedly or in-a-hurry it was because of his skating and hitting. Not his fighting - because there was no fighting.
    I was impressed. And I've HATED his game since the get-go.

    I don't understand why he can't play that way all the time - this fighting with his buddies just seems like so much 'singin to the choir' - it just seems the easy way out - a cop-out, a short-cut - an excuse for not just going up and down his wing playing hard skating hard-hitting hockey. If he played his game and not some version of what people think his game should be, he - and The Bruins would be a lot better off.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]Today's article about Thornton fighting his former teammates, and a good friend reinforces how ridiculous the staged fight is.  As has been stated before, fights should be born out of emotion, anger, frustration.  They are not dates. 
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree.  Hate the staged fight.  Love the mayhem of boiled over emotions and anger in a hard fought game.


    I have mixed feelings on Thornton.  I wish he would play in about half the games, to keep Chara/Lucic/Horton from having to fight other goons.  When in the lineup, I wish Thornton would play a little nastier and not be such a gentlemen under the code.  If you're going to use a spot in the lineup on a tough guy, I would like that tough guy to be actively intimidating and pestering the other team (snow the goalie Shawn!).  I think he definitely played a role and making Vancouver tuck their tail and run last year.  I'd like to see him do it more.  Otherwise, put a more skilled guy there.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from saxydogg77. Show saxydogg77's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Fighting is fun to watch.  It also keeps hockey players humble.  Not too many obnoxious, "me, me, me" guys that those other "real sports" have.  I wish the NBA had similar fighting rules to the NHL, I might actually consider watching!  Imagine how sweet it would be to see some preening idiot catch one in the kisser after showing up his opponent when he makes a bunny layup?  Heaven... 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Someone should ask Shawn Thornton if he likes to fight - if he loves to fight.

    Maybe Fluto Shinsawa should ask him
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from saxydogg77. Show saxydogg77's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Awry, your point went a little "awry" with your absurd Mike Vick comparison. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from matttt87. Show matttt87's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Awry it's still a stupid comparison, the only similarity at all is two "things" are fighting. Every other aspect is different.

    DaveyN, I know that but just because a player can fight alot doesn't mean he can't be useful in other areas. If you have a fourth line center who is good in the faceoff circle, and can kill penalties - as well as take care of the fighting, sounds like a pretty good player to me. When I think of "clown" I think of a player on a team that is there purely to fight, with no other actual skills to bring to the table (excluding veteran presence etc, I mean pure skills).
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]I don't know if I'd consider Konopka a clown, he's pretty good on the PK and from what I remeber excellent in the faceoff dot - seems like a pretty good fourth liner to me. I know you've praised Campbell and Paille before for there value to the team, I think Konopka brings that same value - with the ability to fight.
    Posted by matttt87[/QUOTE]

    Im pretty sure he led the league in fighting majors for the past two seasons...he may be good on the PK ,but to me if you lead the league in fighting majors at any point in your career, that kinda constitutes a clown label most of the time.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Okay, now this thread has gone from bad to worse.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    'saxydogg77'

    Why absurd? You like watching 'things' fight for your own amusement, right? You said 'fighting is fun to watch'. I am assuming you don't let something as pesky as a regard for 'your' fighter's well-being or feelings get in the way?
    You don't really care if 'your fighter' gets hurt doing it, really do you? And when 'your fighter' ceases to be able to 'win' anymore I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate a second to toss him aside for a younger stronger version of the same thing who would do it for half the money? Right?

    What's absurd about the comparison? Isn't Shawn Thornton 'your dog'?

    I will reiterate:
    Someone should ask Shawn Thornton if he loves to fight - or even likes to fight

    I'm guessing if everyone was being honest and brave - the answer would surprise

    I'd like to see Fluto Shinsawa ask him. For that matter, I'd like to see what Shinsawa's stand is on this - One thing's for certain - the issue of fighting in hockey is not going away - everyone's gonna have to have one - a stand, that is

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]'saxydogg77' Why absurd? You like watching 'things' fight for your own amusement, right? You said 'fighting is fun to watch'. I am assuming you don't let something as pesky as a regard for 'your' fighter's well-being or feelings get in the way? You don't really care if 'your fighter' gets hurt doing it, really do you? And when 'your fighter' ceases to be able to 'win' anymore I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate a second to toss him aside for a younger stronger version of the same thing who would do it for half the money? Right? What's absurd about the comparison? Isn't Shawn Thornton 'your dog'? I will reiterate: Someone should ask Shawn Thornton if he loves to fight - or even likes to fight I'm guessing if everyone was being honest and brave - the answer would surprise I'd like to see Fluto Shinsawa ask him. For that matter, I'd like to see what Shinsawa's stand is on this - One thing's for certain - the issue of fighting in hockey is not going away - everyone's gonna have to have one - a stand, that is
    Posted by Awry[/QUOTE]
    I'll ask you does Thornton have to fight? I'm pretty sure those dogs do so yeah, it's an awful comparison. Thornton is a pro athlete so if a younger, cheaper player can do the job, so be it. The same holds true of every guy on the team, regardless of the amount of fights they appear in. Fluto can ask him if he ever thought he'd make 3 million dollars in the last 5 years working at the steel mill. He's a man that made a decision to do what he does. You don't like his choice but it's his to make.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    'Dezaruchi'

    Thornton has to fight. His Owner doesn't have to demand it.

    It's a choice that isn't. And if you must call it a choice then it's neither a fair, nor a moral one - it's a Faustian one.

    Whatever it's called Gary Bettman - on behalf of the NHL Owners - should eliminate the choice and legitimize the NHL game. Until then, I stand by the comparison.

    ---------------------------------

    "Every other tough guy in the league would rather do anything but fight on the ice. They would love to score tons of goals, become more and more talented, and earn bigger salaries, all the things hockey players dream of the moment they become hockey players. And I was one of those. I never enjoyed fighting.

    I did it because it was my job and the only way for me to keep playing in the NHL. Period." - Georges Laraque

    -------------------------

    Who created this 'job'? Who hires for this 'job'?  What's this 'job' even called?

    Wake up. Coaches, GM's, Owners, Fluto - they will all come up with any name under the sun except; 'Fighter' - they're called 'Policemen', 'Enforcers', 'Goons' and on and on - but it's almost as if, no one wants to be incriminated by association with the word. Almost as if no one wants to take responsibilty for the safety of these players. Shawn Thornton talks about what he does as if he's something akin to a fireman, like it's heroic.

    It's embarrassing

    Fighting in hockey is a big f**king lie




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]'Dezaruchi' Thornton has to fight. His Owner doesn't have to demand it. It's a choice that isn't. And if you must call it a choice then it's neither a fair, nor a moral one - it's a Faustian one. Whatever it's called Gary Bettman - on behalf of the NHL Owners - should eliminate the choice and legitimize the NHL game. Until then, I stand by the comparison. --------------------------------- "Every other tough guy in the league would rather do anything but fight on the ice. They would love to score tons of goals, become more and more talented, and earn bigger salaries, all the things hockey players dream of the moment they become hockey players. And I was one of those. I never enjoyed fighting. I did it because it was my job and the only way for me to keep playing in the NHL. Period." - Georges Laraque ------------------------- Who created this 'job'? Who hires for this 'job'?  What's this 'job' even called? Wake up. Coaches, GM's, Owners, Fluto - they will all come up with any name under the sun except; 'Fighter' - they're called 'Policemen', 'Enforcers', 'Goons' and on and on - but it's almost as if, no one wants to be incriminated by association with the word. Almost as if no one wants to take responsibilty for the safety of these players. Shawn Thornton talks about what he does as if he's something akin to a fireman, like it's heroic. It's embarrassing Fighting in hockey is a big f**king lie
    Posted by Awry[/QUOTE]
    As previously stated, if your opinion was popular amongst the fans then fighting would already be abolished. Perhaps you prefer the stick work and other dangerous play that is prominently featured in leagues that have no fighting? Why is it you feel those who disagree with you need to "wake up". Perhaps it's you that needs to excercise the same right that all consumers have and don't buy the product if it offends you so. BTW, stand by your dog fighting comparison all you want, that doesn't make the comparison somehow correct or any easier to stomach. It just means it's incredibly hard to get you off of your soapbox.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown



    It diminishes the game

    It diminishes all of us

    It will be abolished whether you agree with my opinion or not - the ball is already in motion and you know it. No conversation about head shots and conscussions (another popular topic around the rinks these days, no?) can rationally exclude the topic of fighting anymore and any that do are disingenuous

    Fighting in hockey is a lie.


    Instant ejection from the game
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    But Awry, the 'choice' isn't to fight or not.  The choice is to make $1 million a year playing hockey (with the difficult role of fighting) or go back home to wherever and find a regular job.

    I would be lying awake in a cold sweat if I had to go fight the goons of the NHL every other night for my job, granted.  But, if I was good at it, and they offered to pay me $1 million bucks a year to do it, I think I'd give it a shot.  And I certainly wouldn't then claim that I was then being victimized afterwards.

    It's a tough job, no doubt.  Certainly no worse than serving in the military though, and those guys are lucky to make $40k a year.  I think a lot of NHL fighters are living the dream, even if it is a dangerous profession.

    When you compare it to dog fighting, remember that you are talking about someone who is in the upper 2% of the annual income bracket, has fame, fan fare, and has the choice to walk away at any time and find another job.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Awry, your comparison is absurd. You're trying to compare a MAN who gets PAID to fight and play hockey to a DOG that is forced into a ring and tortured into fighting for its life. Do NHL fighters fight to the death? Common sense dictates that your comparison is asinine.

    What reward do the dogs in dog fights get? To live? In horrendous conditions? Yeah thats a great reward alright.

    What reward does Thornton and other fighers/hockey players get? $1,000,000. Popularity. Luxuries that almost every single one of us can't afford.




    On another note, if we were to take your comparison seriously Vick would be like Jacobs. So then its Jacobs you should be having the conversation about as he sanctions Thorntons actions. And Thornton, the one you so eloquantly called the dog, is being forced against his will to fight for his life...

    I seriously hope you see how misguided your comparison is after that. If not, total lost cause.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LUCICmilan17. Show LUCICmilan17's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Awry may i suggest you follow womens hockey or ice dancing?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    OMG these NAS posts are getting annoying.  I agree the on the "skating clowns" theory.  I agree the instigator rule is bogus, or the third man in is a bogus rule, and that fighting will ruin the game if not controlled.  But to have the clown fighting discussions go on this long is boredom.  Shawn Thornton should not be on the team, fighting should not be ruled out of the game (KPD is a recent convert to European football... an his columns on hockey are just hockey puck).  YET! the sport needs to define itself to the UFC younger crowd where fighting is ok, and the hockey mom Canadians who think likewise. Fine monetarily speaking a hockey player for fighting but do not eliminate it from the game.  I much rather have a fight than spearing, slashing, and butt ending not called and a fight to make sure it does not happen again. Shenanigans!!!!!!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Yeah, Isla, you hate the topic so much you weigh in with 11 lines on it.

    It's a legit topic where there are two clear sides drawn.  I find it much more interesting than all of us agreeing that Bergeron is a great player.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown:
    [QUOTE]It diminishes the game It diminishes all of us It will be abolished whether you agree with my opinion or not - the ball is already in motion and you know it. No conversation about head shots and conscussions (another popular topic around the rinks these days, no?) can rationally exclude the topic of fighting anymore and any that do are disingenuous Fighting in hockey is a lie. Instant ejection from the game
    Posted by Awry[/QUOTE]
    What I know is that the idea to abolish fighting was struck down again this year at the GM's meeting. What I suspect is you've watched "V for Vendetta" one too many times. When enough people of your opinion stop going to games and buying merchandise, then you may see changes made. Until fighting takes money out of the owner's pockets, it will continue to be a part of the game.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Awry. Show Awry's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    'lambda13'

    Getting warm-er...

    The NHL belongs to the Owners - The Game and everyone who plays it.

    Fighting exists because they say it does, because they discovered long ago that there is an element out there who like it - who, maybe, need it. They found out that they could sell tickets to people who didn't have to have any interest in hockey whatsoever - 'they came for the fight and they stayed for the game' - They found that this worked, particularily well in markets where the game, in and of itself, could not fill the rink.

    There are rinks today that would be full all year long, that would be full even if there was never another fight in them ever - Montreal and Toronto and Vancouver, Detroit? ...

    and 'dezaruchi'

    'Bingo!' As long as Owners cling to the 'short' money (the money they squeeze from the violence porn) they will never make the big bucks that would come from the thousands and thousands of people - not 'of my opinion' - who want to go to the game but don't like watching meaningless fights - and don't like exposing their kids to the ugly side of humanity just yet, the roar of the bloodlust, if you will.

    You're right, as long as the Owners are satisfied making the 2 dollars (or losing 2 dollars!) they get from fighting, they will never make 5

    Now, if only we could teach dogs to skate and hold a hockey stick...hmm...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Clown vs. Clown

    Islamorda, love your post. Spontaneous fighting, passioned response are definitely part of hockey. These other statements are really bogus
     

Share