Columbus is crazy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]Seguin is better than Nash. I think the term "franchise center" is a bit of an oxymoron. Teams rarely have much success building around a star wing. Almost every champion has their best players at center and/or defence, and good goaltending. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a champion build around a franchise wing. Ever. The closest one that comes to mind is the Canadiens with LaFleur, but that team was strong in every possible position. He was the face, but their centers were great too. For decades every team that was led by a star wing has come up short to teams with star centers or occasionally star D and goaltending. It's for that reason most of all that I would trade for Nash. I wouldn't trade a bag of pucks to them if it meant taking on an $8mil contract for a wing. He'd be making a million more than Chara while contributing far less to the outcome of games.  If the Bruins are going to bring in an outside player with a bloated, unnecessary contract, I would sooner it be Suter or wait a year and make it Weber. Having a long-term contract with your highest paid player playing the least important position on the ice is a poor way to structure a team in a cap system.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]
    Mike Bossy and Brett Hull.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]Seguin is better than Nash. I think the term "franchise center" is a bit of an oxymoron. Teams rarely have much success building around a star wing. Almost every champion has their best players at center and/or defence, and good goaltending. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a champion build around a franchise wing. Ever. The closest one that comes to mind is the Canadiens with LaFleur, but that team was strong in every possible position. He was the face, but their centers were great too. For decades every team that was led by a star wing has come up short to teams with star centers or occasionally star D and goaltending. It's for that reason most of all that I would trade for Nash. I wouldn't trade a bag of pucks to them if it meant taking on an $8mil contract for a wing. He'd be making a million more than Chara while contributing far less to the outcome of games.  If the Bruins are going to bring in an outside player with a bloated, unnecessary contract, I would sooner it be Suter or wait a year and make it Weber. Having a long-term contract with your highest paid player playing the least important position on the ice is a poor way to structure a team in a cap system.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    The Dallas Stars and Brett Hull.

    Edit: sorry dez, didn't see that you beat me to it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    Mike Bossy is a decent example, especially because the Islanders were known for having multiple skilled wings who were strong along the boards. However, I would argue that their 1-2 punch at center with Trottier and Goring was more pivotal. Pre-Goring the Islanders couldn't get it done. With Trottier and Goring winning their first two playoff MVP's, I would say they were pretty significant. I think it would be harder to replace Trotier's game at center than Bossy's on wing. The league's best defenseman and goalie didn't hurt either. I'm not diminishing Bossy's achievements as one of the best ever by any stretch, but having two point-per-game type centers in the lineup is consistent with almost every champion in the last 3 or 4 decades, while not every one had an elite wing.

    Brett Hull, well I don't think he was considered the top forward on any of his championship runs. By the time he was a winner he was a complimentary piece. The likes of Modano-Nieuwendyk and Yzerman-Federov were the leading scorers of his championships.

    I'm not saying having a skilled winger isn't nice or isn't valuable, just that almost every champion has as their top scorers a couple of centers. I'm sure it can be done with having wings as your money players, and the Devils might do it this year, but I'd rather play the odds and have my money on two -or three - centers, a star D or two and a goalie. I like how the Bruins have their cash spread out on multiple very good, but not great, wings so that all of their centers have good talent to play with.


    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy : Mike Bossy and Brett Hull.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    You mean the player who was fourth in goals and points in the Stars playoff run after a pair of high-end centers? I wouldn't call him a franchise wing. Mike Modano was a franchise center, however.

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy : The Dallas Stars and Brett Hull. Edit: sorry dez, didn't see that you beat me to it.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy : I think Nash is a franchise winger. Does he have the numbers Malkin,Crosby and Ovechkin do?No, and I'll admit you have a much stronger argument than i do, numbers clearly suggest he is not in their class but I've seen him play a ton as he is a favorite of mine and I think he is a franchise player. I know more people are going to agree with you, but I think if you put Nash on a team like Boston and he nets 50. Just my opinion and i hope one day you can say I was right, cause that'll mean he is lighting it up for the B's. Would love to see him here. I'd put Kovalckuk in that franchise winger class as well.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this, except for the part about Nash scoring 50 in Boston. I think given the Bruins' system, it would be awfully hard for anyone outside the more skilled scorer to get 50 while playing in Boston.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    It was more common in the distant past - Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard, Bobby Hull, Frank Mahavolich.  Most recently, the one guy who you could argue - though they had the best 1-2 defense in a long time - is Teemu and the Ducks.  He was their best forward and leading scorer by a mile in the regular season.  He was fourth on the team in playoff scoring as Getzlaf and Perry feasted on second and third lines.  Selanne had to play with Andy MacDonald.

    Every other team to win has been strong down the middle or had a troika of two D and a franchise goalie or both.

    But those teams also had some pretty freaking good wingers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    I wouldn't trade Seguin for Nash straight up, nevermind sweetening the pot. Seguin is arguably just as good offensively as it is, and still has LOADS more potential to fill. Nash is who he is, which is between above average and elite, and he won't be getting any better.

    Dougie could very well be the next great Boston defenseman, and I don't even know if Rick Nash is that much of an improvement over our top 2 left wings on the B's right now. Scoring wise, he isn't.

    In my opinion, there is no case where Nash should be traded to Boston. At all.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    If the Devils win tonight it's the Devils and the LA Kings . Parise , Kovalchuk and Dustin Brown. All wingers and two of them captains and sit on top of their team's scoring .

    You could make a case for any of these wingers as being their team's best forwards .  



     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    If the Devils win the Cup, they'll be at least as good an example as the Ducks because they don't have a dominant D.  Kings aren't as clear - Kopitar is a point behind Brown, Richards is third on the team, and some - maybe Conn voters - will argue Quick is the key guy.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    Strangely enough Kovalchuk can laugh if he wins the Cup.  Lamoriello will too.  As for Brown, well he was almost a Bruin according to the trade rumors circa March, and he will laugh in the same verve.  And Richards and Carter were deemed cancer in Philly and.....???  Ah what the hockey world has created.  The reality is you are one player removed from winning the Cup unless you are Vancouver.  If you are smart you balance promise with talent and build within until you have reached maximum potential in the organization, then you trade.  PC has a big day coming in the summer months.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]Seguin is better than Nash. I think the term "franchise center" is a bit of an oxymoron. Teams rarely have much success building around a star wing. Almost every champion has their best players at center and/or defence, and good goaltending. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a champion build around a franchise wing. Ever. The closest one that comes to mind is the Canadiens with LaFleur, but that team was strong in every possible position. He was the face, but their centers were great too. For decades every team that was led by a star wing has come up short to teams with star centers or occasionally star D and goaltending. It's for that reason most of all that I would trade for Nash. I wouldn't trade a bag of pucks to them if it meant taking on an $8mil contract for a wing. He'd be making a million more than Chara while contributing far less to the outcome of games.  If the Bruins are going to bring in an outside player with a bloated, unnecessary contract, I would sooner it be Suter or wait a year and make it Weber. Having a long-term contract with your highest paid player playing the least important position on the ice is a poor way to structure a team in a cap system.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Seguin is not better than Nash. I think he will be, but not right now. Put Seguin on Columbus and see if he hits the 40 goal mark in his second year, and I say this as I think Seguin will be a top 5 in the league sooner rather than later.  You've made some good points but you've also made some ridiculous ones as well. Comparing him to Teddy Purcell is just ludicrous. Columbus is so bad, we have yet to see what Rick Nash can do, but anyone who knows what they are watching has an idea of what he is capable of doing when he is not playing for a team loaded with AHL players. Teddy Purcell is a good player, but Rick Nash played on the first line for Team Canada the last olympics. One can argue wether he's a fit for a team, worht the cap hit etc..but there is no argument for as far as skill level here. Two 40 goal seasons and five 30 goals seasons on an absolute terrible team and a slot on the first line on Team Canada of all countries kind of makes my argument for me.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Columbus is crazy : Seguin is not better than Nash. I think he will be, but not right now. Put Seguin on Columbus and see if he hits the 40 goal mark in his second year, and I say this as I think Seguin will be a top 5 in the league sooner rather than later.  You've made some good points but you've also made some ridiculous ones as well. Comparing him to Teddy Purcell is just ludicrous. Columbus is so bad, we have yet to see what Rick Nash can do, but anyone who knows what they are watching has an idea of what he is capable of doing when he is not playing for a team loaded with AHL players. Teddy Purcell is a good player, but Rick Nash played on the first line for Team Canada the last olympics. One can argue wether he's a fit for a team, worht the cap hit etc..but there is no argument for as far as skill level here. Two 40 goal seasons and five 30 goals seasons on an absolute terrible team and a slot on the first line on Team Canada of all countries kind of makes my argument for me.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Honest, accurate and unbiased

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    Nash is a top talent, the type of guy we are missing. If you roll out z and seids, bergy sequin up middle along with a Nash threat on 1st line and pp to go along with solid depth scoring through Marchand pev lucic iif not dealt Horton, then add tuukka in net, that's a pretty complete team with great pp and first two lines. I see little downside if tt and or krejci are the main components. Nash is really only $2mill more than krejci, which is basically the salary of a guy like zannon
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Columbus is crazy

    One thing is certain, Nash or not, we are missing offensive punch for the playoffs, in particular on pp. We have no parise/Ilya, kopitar, Richards/gaborik. Point totals aside, just use your eyes when watching the skill level of the devils pp or a guy like Nash in the Olympics as kel says. Sequin will get to the elite level, putting another guy with his type of skill gives u a real 1st line and pp. I'm not willing to wait another 39 years to see a historical goaltending performance be the majority of our reason for a cup rrun. In my humble opinion, we are one top end talent player away from winning it again, and not needing a 950 save percent to make up for an o fer pp
     
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