Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, and Bergeron had "the big one" and has taken some nasty head hits since without long term problems. I am concerned about Crosby's future, but I would hardly write him off at this point. In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]
     bergy took a full calendar year off(zero contact) after his first concussion. jones hit in oct 2007, didn't play until the next season. savard back too early, horton back too early, crosby back too early. shut down horton, shut down crosby, try again next year. FOR YOUR HEALTH. not writing anyone off, just sayin' take time off, try again next season. best chance of coming back healthy.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    adk..... please respond to my above post; you just skipped over it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]hate to be a downer, but the sidney crosby story does not have a happy ending. think about how harmless the contact was that sat him out this past time. just sayin'. he's an incredible talent, undoubtedly, but he is damaged goods. i'd prefer horton not return this season, let him rest and try again next year. everyone can say..."but the doctors cleared him"- to that i'd say..."wasn't he cleared before that last time also?" - it's a sad reality folks, let's get used to it. once you've had "the big one", your days are numbered in the nhl. am i glad sid's cleared for contact, of course. that means he's feeling better, great for him. it says nothing about his future in the nhl. sad but true. i'd be willing to put $ on the fact that he doesn't play another full season in the nhl the rest of his career. ask mark savard 
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    While there is truth to this, every concussion is different.  The odds of Sid playing 80 games / year for the next 10 years arent as great as they once were; however, you cant just assume that he'll never make a full recovery.

    We just dont know.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    I'm hoping he stays out as long as Savard has to. Not enough bad things can happen to the "Penguins" seriously? is that a F@**ing penguin on your jersey?

    I hope he never comes back, I'd call that fair since nobody tried to intentionally injure him, like his DB team mate did -
     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]adk..... please respond to my above post; you just skipped over it.
    Posted by Olsonic[/QUOTE]
    they might have well said he has an "upper body" injury. please explain where the soft tissue is in the neck. they didn't. the spinal cord? neck muscles? a neck injury that has "concussion-like" symptoms? this to me is nothing but pr material. there is no such thing as "concussion-like" symptoms, it's a concussion, or it's not a concussion. they never would have even used the word concussion, if they didn't have to(it's a loaded gun these days), meaning it was a concussion!  my guess is, it's their way of avoiding blame for him coming back too early. "oh no it's not his head, that would be a concussion, sidney has a soft tissue neck issue, with concussion-like symptoms. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. we as team doctors are in no way responsible for clearing him too early. whew, i hope they buy it." damage control my friend.  just my opinion. and btw, there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.  


     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:[QUOTE] Karma has Crosby out indefinitely. Compliments of Ulf Samuelson and Matt Cooke. Posted by lambda13[/QUOTE]

    Instant Karma will get you, most peculiar momma whoa ~ Lennon
     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    Always remember Pittsburgh,What go's around, comes around.In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions : Instant Karma will get you, most peculiar momma whoa ~ Lennon
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions : they might have well said he has an "upper body" injury. please explain where the soft tissue is in the neck. they didn't. the spinal cord? neck muscles? a neck injury that has "concussion-like" symptoms? this to me is nothing but pr material. there is no such thing as "concussion-like" symptoms, it's a concussion, or it's not a concussion. they never would have even used the word concussion, if they didn't have to(it's a loaded gun these days), meaning it was a concussion!  my guess is, it's their way of avoiding blame for him coming back too early. "oh no it's not his head, that would be a concussion, sidney has a soft tissue neck issue, with concussion-like symptoms. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. we as team doctors are in no way responsible for clearing him too early. whew, i hope they buy it." damage control my friend.  just my opinion. and btw, there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.  
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]


    The irnoy of your statement here is pretty striking. You indict Sidney Crosby, his agent, Mario Lemieux and the Penguins, the NHL, and Thomas Jefferson University Hospital as perpetrators of an elaborate, coordinated PR-hoax (based on absolutely zero evidence) and then accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. You're either a brilliant troll, or you've just made a pretty blatant logical error.

    There's absolutely no way they are lying about this. I'm not a doctor, but it would be a significant scandal if they were lying. TJU is one of the most reputable medical schools in the country and they have one of their neuroligists QUOTED as calling it a soft-tissue injury with significantly less recovery time. Just imagine the liabilities of making false statements to their reputation, let alone the insurance companies. It's completely delusional to think they are making this up.

    I just googled *.edu sites and brought up a few other Research institutions studying soft-tissue neck injuries that result from whiplash, feel free to search their indexed pages for information on soft-tissue injuries.

    this is just the first page of google results: 
    Yale, Harvard, NYU, UCSD, Ohio State, Texas
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]When the healthy Bruins played the healthy Penguins, the Bruins looked significantly better. I have a couple of friends who are Pens fans and they just kind of shook their head saying that Bruins team has no weakness. I think the Pens are awesome and they are better than the Rangers, but if Boston gets the two RW's back their depth is unmatched. A Pens-Bruins playoff match could be epic.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    I think the Pens have less depth simply due to their two big ticket players (Malkin and Sid) which takes a significant portion of their cap space away. This makes signing the decent depth players a major issue. It seems every year Shero is scrambling to fill the roster with enough quality skaters who are usually on 1 year contracts.

    The B's have done well with a lack of true superstars to have to pay for but I am starting to worry with the new contracts to Peverly, Krecji, and Boychuk, who are all getting hefty raises, and with Seguin and Lucic due after next year (not to mention Tukka in July) that the B's may have a serious cap problems going forward.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions : The irnoy of your statement here is pretty striking. You indict Sidney Crosby, his agent, Mario Lemieux and the Penguins, the NHL, and Thomas Jefferson University Hospital as perpetrators of an elaborate, coordinated PR-hoax (based on absolutely zero evidence) and then accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. You're either a brilliant troll, or you've just made a pretty blatant logical error. There's absolutely no way they are lying about this. I'm not a doctor, but it would be a significant scandal if they were lying.  TJU is one of the most reputable medical schools in the country. I just googled *.edu sites and brought up a few other Research institutions studying soft-tissue neck injuries that result from whiplash, feel free to search their indexed pages for information on soft-tissue injuries. this is just the first page of google results:  Yale, Harvard, NYU, UCSD, Ohio State, Texas
    Posted by Olsonic[/QUOTE]

    who exactly did i indict? when it comes to injuries suffered by professional athletes, ALL teams are less than truthful. ever notice how vague they are when speaking of injuries(upper body, lower body)? why is it impossible to believe they would downplay his injury? i in no way called you a conspiracy theorist, i called MYSELF one. i don't believe everything i read. sometimes we are just being spoon fed what they want us to hear. then i ask you, what is your evidence? it's what they chose to release to the public. it's my opinion, which is what i stated. you on the other hand know nothing but what has been released by the penguins, but are "absolutely sure" what they told you/us is the truth. how do YOU know this? i never said there was no such thing as soft tissue neck injuries, i said i questioned whether that was really the case with crosby, you know, because he had "concussion-like" symptoms. the fact that researchers are studying it doesn't have anything to do with anything. i spoke as if this scenario was a possibilty, not the undeniable truth. you think everything you read in the nhl press releases is the undeniable truth. what the hell got you so worked up? remember when the sabres said miller was concussed? we all know that was the truth right? keep believing everything you read. wow, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions : who exactly did i indict? when it comes to injuries suffered by professional athletes, ALL teams are less than truthful. ever notice how vague they are when speaking of injuries(upper body, lower body)? why is it impossible to believe they would downplay his injury? i in no way called you a conspiracy theorist, i called MYSELF one. i don't believe everything i read. sometimes we are just being spoon fed what they want us to hear. then i ask you, what is your evidence? it's what they chose to release to the public. it's my opinion, which is what i stated. you on the other hand know nothing but what has been released by the penguins, but are "absolutely sure" what they told you/us is the truth. how do YOU know this? i never said there was no such thing as soft tissue neck injuries, i said i questioned whether that was really the case with crosby, you know, because he had "concussion-like" symptoms. the fact that researchers are studying it doesn't have anything to do with anything. i spoke as if this scenario was a possibilty, not the undeniable truth. you think everything you read in the nhl press releases is the undeniable truth. what the hell got you so worked up? remember when the sabres said miller was concussed? we all know that was the truth right? keep believing everything you read. wow, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. 
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    My initial statements point out how weak your argument is, so I'm not going to re-hash (anyone reading this feel free to look back one page). You've done nothing here other than point out that I can't be 100% certain, which I can't. But unfortunately you've offered nothing substantial to make me believe that this is an organized, elaborate, PR-move. Just imagine if Sidney got a concussion again, ending his career, forcing the penguins to acknowledge they intentionally mislead the public, and a prestigious medical school forced to acknowledge they were complicit in this scandal. And for what? Just so Sidney could play and the public could momentarily believe that there isn't a concussion epidemic and their star players can be fixed by science? And please note that they would be doing this despite their massive public awareness campaign over concussions.

    Of course it could be a lie, but lets just point out that the stakes would be enourmously high and the benefits would be extremely low (can you even point out a benefit?). You haven't even given probable cause (like the sabres trying to get Lucic suspended). It doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. You're not making any sense.

    And relax, it's o.k. to be wrong, its liberating to admit it once in a while. It doesn't invalidate everything you say, just means that in this case you were a little cavalier with your statements

     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    i'd hate to be the team doctors responsible for letting crosby back too early, making another concussion more likely(and jeopardizing his career, and long term health). i just think they COULD have been a little less than truthful in what exactly is the reason why he is sidelined again. you know exonerating themselves of the responsibility. the ONLY people that know this are the pens team doctors(and you evidently), and i'm fairly certain they would not hold a press conference saying "our bad, he returned too soon". so when he has concussion-like syptoms, after this last time, it of course is something entirely different(soft-tissue blah blah), not our fault. you see i not once spoke in absolutes, it's simply a POSSIBILITY. nothing more nothing less. this is a discussion board, not a place to go to win or lose arguments(as you and so many others do believe). i never once stated these as facts, just a POSSIBILITY.  but if it makes you feel better to put things in that context.... olsonic 1, adk 0. congratulations, you can read press releases.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    Actually, this has nothing to do with the Pens doctors. When sid's symptoms came back he got a second opinion on his own on the advice of Tom Brady. This doctor found evidence that he had had damage to his neck vertebrae recently. That damage can cause soft tissue (the nervous and connective tissue which is not bone) pain. Such symptoms can include headache, nausea and other "concussion-like" problems. This discovery was important because it seems the mild contact he received in the Pens-Bruins games probably had nothing to do with his symptoms returning nor did him coming back to soon. In fact, the bone damage probably had a lot to do with why his concussion symptoms were so bad when he was initially out. It wasn't just head trauma.


    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]i'd hate to be the team doctors responsible for letting crosby back too early, making another concussion more likely(and jeopardizing his career, and long term health). i just think they COULD have been a little less than truthful in what exactly is the reason why he is sidelined again. you know exonerating themselves of the responsibility. the ONLY people that know this are the pens team doctors(and you evidently), and i'm fairly certain they would not hold a press conference saying "our bad, he returned too soon". so when he has concussion-like syptoms, after this last time, it of course is something entirely different(soft-tissue blah blah), not our fault. you see i not once spoke in absolutes, it's simply a POSSIBILITY. nothing more nothing less. this is a discussion board, not a place to go to win or lose arguments(as you and so many others do believe). i never once stated these as facts, just a POSSIBILITY.  but if it makes you feel better to put things in that context.... olsonic 1, adk 0. congratulations, you can read press releases.
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]Actually, this has nothing to do with the Pens doctors. When sid's symptoms came back he got a second opinion on his own on the advice of Tom Brady. This doctor found evidence that he had had damage to his neck vertebrae recently. That damage can cause soft tissue (the nervous and connective tissue which is not bone) pain. Such symptoms can include headache, nausea and other "concussion-like" problems. This discovery was important because it seems the mild contact he received in the Pens-Bruins games probably had nothing to do with his symptoms returning nor did him coming back to soon. In fact, the bone damage probably had a lot to do with why his concussion symptoms were so bad when he was initially out. It wasn't just head trauma. In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]
     thanks for the info, and the delivery. that's how it's done. i just can't believe they don't shut him down for the season. he's the face of the nhl, and their cash cow. i'd be taking no chances with him. makes me wonder what the dynamic is between the gm/coach/doctor/player when it comes to being "cleared to play". can a coach/gm sit a player out even they are cleared? i doubt it, but he's their investment, can't they protect their investment? anyone know? has this ever happened before?  
     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    Doctors aren't perfect, but they are bound by the hypocratic oath. They aren't going to clear him to play if in their best estimation it would do harm.
     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:
    [QUOTE]Doctors aren't perfect, but they are bound by the hypocratic oath. They aren't going to clear him to play if in their best estimation it would do harm.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
    can a doctor clear an athlete to play(legitimately), but the coach and/or gm refuse to allow him to play, protecting their investment? has anything like this scenario ever played out?  OR, can or would a doctor clear a player(legitmately), because they met the "clear to play standards", but behind closed doors not recommend that same player to compete-? "yes, he met criteria, but i would advise him to sit him out until next season". anyone know? 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    adk, not sure how exactly that works.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    I'm not sure if it is exactly comparable, but there was discussion about timing for clearing cap space back when Sturm was on the IR.  The conclusion I remember is that the decision to activate a player is solely at the GM's discretion.  Given that came from a bunch of us picking through the CBA, I can't say that it true for certain.

    If it is, and a GM blocked a healthy player from playing against his will, I would expect the NHLPA to file a complaint, or do whatever it is they can do in such a situation.

    Could something like Savard's case have implications here?  They decided to cancel his whole season, at the beginning.  That suggests that injured players don't have to be continually evaluated to make sure they aren't cleared to play.
     
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    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    In Response to Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions:[QUOTE]adk, not sure how exactly that works. Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    "They aren't going to clear him to play if in their best estimation it would do harm."

    No I think you are onto something Red and of course Shero is going ask for records plus x-rays to back up his doctors claims but he went to law school not med school.

    I would also be inclined that if Sid wasn't ready to play even if he had clearance he would say "I'm not ready". Crosby is way to smart and he was already mis-diagnosed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Crosby out again indefinitely.....recurrence of concussion symptions

    I am currently working for a physician, she is honorable to her profession, and yes openly critical of the medical profession.  When speaking of neurology, well the amount of knowledge does not meet the standards of perfection our society demands especially in sports.  Reality, Crosby, he just might have to make it a career.  
     
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