Cross Finally Signs......

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Ya shame on #4, I wish he never played here... Wait a second... No.
    Posted by lambda13

    Lam, the the closest I'll ever come to saying something bad about Orr.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Exactly right San. I like that he led his team to 2 titles more than I care about his offensive potential. Maybe it's Orr's fault that some Bruins fans expect every D-man to put up points now.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    I expect better numbers in his offensive stats year after year in junior or college no matter how defensive a defenseman they are.  What I'm looking for is IMPROVEMENT over that time.  We can be talking about this progression, 0, 2, 4, 8 and I would like that.

    Defensive defenseman from current roster examples 
    Andrew Ference in juniors, 0, 44, 68
    Seidenberg in the German league, 0, 7, 20.
    Zanon was 29, 28, 25, 25 in college, but GP was 42, 39, 41 and 32, so 9 less games, but the same number of points.

    Even if you are a defensive defenseman, your offense should be improving in juniors and college, you should be learning to get more time and space and those odd shots that get goals should happen more frequently.

    These stats go right out the window when they turn pro or for evaluating pros, no way would I expect the offense to translate to the NHL.

    And Regehr is totally dreaming was my point, like saying I've got a VW and the high end comparison is a Bugatti, nice to dream about, but come on.  Regehr outweighs him by 16 lbs. and comparing a #19 overall to a #35 overall.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Exactly right San. I like that he led his team to 2 titles more than I care about his offensive potential. Maybe it's Orr's fault that some Bruins fans expect every D-man to put up points now. Posted by dezaruchi


    Yah no kidding what about Dick Redmond and Gary Doak LoL!

    PS. Like the new add to the signature "15 more wins" !
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : I expect better numbers in his offensive stats year after year in junior or college no matter how defensive a defenseman they are.  What I'm looking for is IMPROVEMENT over that time.  We can be talking about this progression, 0, 2, 4, 8 and I would like that. Defensive defenseman from current roster examples  Andrew Ference in juniors, 0, 44, 68 Seidenberg in the German league, 0, 7, 20. Zanon was 29, 28, 25, 25 in college, but GP was 42, 39, 41 and 32, so 9 less games, but the same number of points. Even if you are a defensive defenseman, your offense should be improving in juniors and college, you should be learning to get more time and space and those odd shots that get goals should happen more frequently. These stats go right out the window when they turn pro or for evaluating pros, no way would I expect the offense to translate to the NHL. And Regehr is totally dreaming was my point, like saying I've got a VW and the high end comparison is a Bugatti, nice to dream about, but come on.  Regehr outweighs him by 16 lbs. and comparing a #19 overall to a #35 overall.  
    Posted by BadHabitude

    And the point many of are trying to make is you can't base a guy's career arc soley upon things you get off the back of a hockey card.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : And the point many of are trying to make is you can't base a guy's career arc soley upon things you get off the back of a hockey card.
    Posted by dezaruchi

    That's absolutely true, I'm only talking about the odds of them getting a regular job in the NHL, nothing more than that.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Exactly right San. I like that he led his team to 2 titles more than I care about his offensive potential. Maybe it's Orr's fault that some Bruins fans expect every D-man to put up points now.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Offensive potential ? I don't think that's why Adam McQuaid was picked in the 2nd round either . Trying to determine if certain players ( defensive defenceman ) have improved going by stats is not a good indicator. 

    The reason for my sarcasm with Badhab's formula ( stats ) with Tommy Cross.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Yah no kidding what about Dick Redmond and Gary Doak LoL! PS. Like the new add to the signature "15 more wins" !
    Posted by SanDogBrewin

    It worked last year San.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : I expect better numbers in his offensive stats year after year in junior or college no matter how defensive a defenseman they are.  What I'm looking for is IMPROVEMENT over that time.  We can be talking about this progression, 0, 2, 4, 8 and I would like that. Defensive defenseman from current roster examples  Andrew Ference in juniors, 0, 44, 68 Seidenberg in the German league, 0, 7, 20. Zanon was 29, 28, 25, 25 in college, but GP was 42, 39, 41 and 32, so 9 less games, but the same number of points. Even if you are a defensive defenseman, your offense should be improving in juniors and college, you should be learning to get more time and space and those odd shots that get goals should happen more frequently. These stats go right out the window when they turn pro or for evaluating pros, no way would I expect the offense to translate to the NHL. And Regehr is totally dreaming was my point, like saying I've got a VW and the high end comparison is a Bugatti, nice to dream about, but come on.  Regehr outweighs him by 16 lbs. and comparing a #19 overall to a #35 overall.  
    Posted by BadHabitude


    All this ^^^^ being irrelevant in 5-6 Bruins players that I posted before to you who didn't show improvement in their junior/college careers.

    What you expect and what you like is not always the route players take on their way to becoming NHLers.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : All this ^^^^ being irrelevant in 5-6 Bruins players that I posted before to you who didn't show improvement in their junior/college careers. What you expect and what you like is not always the route players take on their way to becoming NHLers.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

    Look back at that post and check the stats.  Every other Bruin followed the improvement pattern.

    And no, this stat pattern is not a hard and fast rule.  It is the pattern of the MAJORITY of NHL players.

    This isn't rocket science stats analysis I'm talking about, it's pretty evident.

    If your game isn't improving in those critical development years of 16-21, it's not impossible that you will make it to the NHL, but the odds go down.

    And look at the obvious great ones, Bobby, Wayne and Mario - their numbers all got significantly better every year of juniors.

    Wayne had only 2 years of junior, 3 pts in 3 games his first season, and then went to 3 pts a game his second year.  You see that you have to say wow.

    Mario practically doubled his stats each year.  You see that and you have to say wow.

    In those cases it's easy to say that the guy is probably going to make an impact in the NHL.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Look back at that post and check the stats.  Every other Bruin followed the improvement pattern. And no, this stat pattern is not a hard and fast rule.  It is the pattern of the MAJORITY of NHL players. This isn't rocket science stats analysis I'm talking about, it's pretty evident. If your game isn't improving in those critical development years of 16-21, it's not impossible that you will make it to the NHL, but the odds go down. And look at the obvious great ones, Bobby, Wayne and Mario - their numbers all got significantly better every year of juniors. Wayne had only 2 years of junior, 3 pts in 3 games his first season, and then went to 3 pts a game his second year.  You see that you have to say wow. Mario practically doubled his stats each year.  You see that and you have to say wow. In those cases it's easy to say that the guy is probably going to make an impact in the NHL.
    Posted by BadHabitude

    And here I thought I was simple.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......



    I give up.  Stats mean something.  If the Bruins have a greater goal differential than their opponants for at least 15 more games these playoffs, their liklihood of bringing another cup home is pretty good.

    I said it first about Hamill and I'm saying it now about Cross, and I only say it because of the stats they put up.  We'll see if they can rack up a season in the NHL.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    I give up.  Stats mean something.  If the Bruins have a greater goal differential than their opponants for at least 15 more games these playoffs, their liklihood of bringing another cup home is pretty good. I said it first about Hamill and I'm saying it now about Cross, and I only say it because of the stats they put up.  We'll see if they can rack up a season in the NHL.
    Posted by BadHabitude


    Thank you for giving up ( although I doubt it . You haven't with null either ) and you're right they do mean something.

    I'm arguing that it doesn't apply with everyone. In this case with Tommy Cross being labelled more of a defensive defenceman ( I believe ) I think you're going overboard on expecting his offensive numbers to improve the way you want. 

    If he is a defensive defenseman his improved play should be measured in how he's improved in his own end. Not on a piece of paper that shows he contributed offensively.

    There are good players in every league on the planet Earth who don't get points because of their offensive limitations and do other things that help their teams win. Could Cross be one of them ?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Thank you for giving up ( although I doubt it . You haven't with null either ) and you're right they do mean something. I'm arguing that it doesn't apply with everyone. In this case with Tommy Cross being labelled more of a defensive defenceman ( I believe ) I think you're going overboard on expecting his offensive numbers to improve the way you want.  If he is a defensive defenseman his improved play should be measured in how he's improved in his own end. Not on a piece of paper that shows he contributed offensively. There are good players in every league on the planet Earth who don't get points because of their offensive limitations and do other things that help their teams win. Could Cross be one of them ?
    Posted by Chowdahkid-

    Chowda, I suspect Cross was given specific instructions on what he should work on in order to make it to the next level. By all accounts, the Bruins seemed happy with his progress.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......


    Chowda - fair enough.  And you're right, I won't give up.  True, not all players fit my stats analysis, but if they did they would only have 3 or 4 rounds of the draft and everyone would play in the nhl or the a.  However, some teams are better at drafting than others.  I would like to see the Bruins improve in that regard and I would like to see better prospects in the system.

    Dez, how would you know if the Bruins were unhappy with his progress?  From what I have observed, they will only express their unhappiness long after they felt that way.  Look at Hamill, they only expressed that he was not living up to expectations long after he failed everyone else's expectations.

    I was upset with that 2007 draft because of my own evaluation based on stats, legit or not, it's turned out that way.  Not one guy who's going to have a season in the NHL, not one.  I had misgivings about Hamill at the time, but a lot of people had him rated highly.  I can understand that.  The only reason I see that they drafted Cross was because he was a local kid.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    Chowda - fair enough.  And you're right, I won't give up.  True, not all players fit my stats analysis, but if they did they would only have 3 or 4 rounds of the draft and everyone would play in the nhl or the a.  However, some teams are better at drafting than others.  I would like to see the Bruins improve in that regard and I would like to see better prospects in the system. Dez, how would you know if the Bruins were unhappy with his progress?  From what I have observed, they will only express their unhappiness long after they felt that way.  Look at Hamill, they only expressed that he was not living up to expectations long after he failed everyone else's expectations. I was upset with that 2007 draft because of my own evaluation based on stats, legit or not, it's turned out that way.  Not one guy who's going to have a season in the NHL, not one.  I had misgivings about Hamill at the time, but a lot of people had him rated highly.  I can understand that.  The only reason I see that they drafted Cross was because he was a local kid.
    Posted by BadHabitude

    His signing a pro contract was a decent indicator.

    http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-bruins/bruins-talk/Cross-Bruins-prospect-continues-to-impre?blockID=677156
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : His signing a pro contract was a decent indicator.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    They signed Denis Reul to an ATO and he didn't have the skills to play junior.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : They signed Denis Reul to an ATO and he didn't have the skills to play junior.
    Posted by BadHabitude

    What does that have to do with Cross signing an actual contract? Reul played not 1 but 2 years in the Q so I really don't know what you're trying to say. Do you?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : What does that have to do with Cross signing an actual contract? Reul played not 1 but 2 years in the Q so I really don't know what you're trying to say. Do you?
    Posted by dezaruchi

    That signing a contract does not necessarily mean that they are "happy" with him in the sense that he's going to have a successful NHL career.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : That signing a contract does not necessarily mean that they are "happy" with him in the sense that he's going to have a successful NHL career.
    Posted by BadHabitude

    Are they going to give a signing bonus of 87,500$ to a player whose progress they were unhappy with?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Are they going to give a signing bonus of 87,500$ to a player whose progress they were unhappy with?
    Posted by dezaruchi


    Bingo.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Are they going to give a signing bonus of 87,500$ to a player whose progress they were unhappy with?
    Posted by dezaruchi


    I don't understand why they did that.

    Is he eligible to play in the playoffs?  If he is eligible, he's not going to play.

    I don't see this kid playing in the NHL, a career ahl defenseman maybe he might be.  Maybe.

    What I've seen Cross do more than once.  Loose puck in the crease and a forward jabbing at it.  What does Cross do?  He starts jabbing at the puck as well trying to help the goalie cover it.  I think in that situation he should be playing the man.  And all sorts of other situations where he should be playing the man and plays the puck instead.  Several occasions in camp and in games I've seen him throw passes way off the market when there is no one on him or the other guy.  I've seen him bang it off the boards to no one to get it out of the zone when he has guys wide open.

    I see nothing in this kid anywhere I look.  The one thing I hear is his "leadership qualities" and there's no way I can pass any judgement on that.

    I have no idea what the Bruins see in him.

    The people who like him say stuff like he was on a Championship team he was a captain, but no one says anything about playing qualities like good vision, good hockey sense, big shot, big hitter, good outlet passer or good shot blocker.

    Where is it?  I don't see it.  The Bruins *think* they do.  God bless them.

    I'll make a promise.

    If Cross plays 80 games in the NHL, $200 to the charity of your choice and I'll do it in your name or in the name of Tommy Cross so you can check on it later.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : I don't understand why they did that. Is he eligible to play in the playoffs?  If he is eligible, he's not going to play. I don't see this kid playing in the NHL, a career ahl defenseman maybe he might be.  Maybe. What I've seen Cross do more than once.  Loose puck in the crease and a forward jabbing at it.  What does Cross do?  He starts jabbing at the puck as well trying to help the goalie cover it.  I think in that situation he should be playing the man.  And all sorts of other situations where he should be playing the man and plays the puck instead.  Several occasions in camp and in games I've seen him throw passes way off the market when there is no one on him or the other guy.  I've seen him bang it off the boards to no one to get it out of the zone when he has guys wide open. I see nothing in this kid anywhere I look.  The one thing I hear is his "leadership qualities" and there's no way I can pass any judgement on that. I have no idea what the Bruins see in him. The people who like him say stuff like he was on a Championship team he was a captain, but no one says anything about playing qualities like good vision, good hockey sense, big shot, big hitter, good outlet passer or good shot blocker. Where is it?  I don't see it.  The Bruins *think* they do.  God bless them. I'll make a promise. If Cross plays 80 games in the NHL, $200 to the charity of your choice and I'll do it in your name or in the name of Tommy Cross so you can check on it later.
    Posted by BadHabitude

    Sounds great BH as I know you're not the welching kind (ahem Stanley).
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : Sounds great BH as I know you're not the welching kind (ahem Stanley).
    Posted by dezaruchi


    except when it comes to ignoring the null.  I'm trying but it's hard to resist when you want to beech slap that piece of distended baboon rectum.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Cross Finally Signs......

    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs......:
    In Response to Re: Cross Finally Signs...... : I don't understand why they did that. Is he eligible to play in the playoffs?  If he is eligible, he's not going to play. I don't see this kid playing in the NHL, a career ahl defenseman maybe he might be.  Maybe. What I've seen Cross do more than once.  Loose puck in the crease and a forward jabbing at it.  What does Cross do?  He starts jabbing at the puck as well trying to help the goalie cover it.  I think in that situation he should be playing the man.  And all sorts of other situations where he should be playing the man and plays the puck instead.  Several occasions in camp and in games I've seen him throw passes way off the market when there is no one on him or the other guy.  I've seen him bang it off the boards to no one to get it out of the zone when he has guys wide open. I see nothing in this kid anywhere I look.  The one thing I hear is his "leadership qualities" and there's no way I can pass any judgement on that. I have no idea what the Bruins see in him. The people who like him say stuff like he was on a Championship team he was a captain, but no one says anything about playing qualities like good vision, good hockey sense, big shot, big hitter, good outlet passer or good shot blocker. Where is it?  I don't see it.  The Bruins *think* they do.  God bless them. I'll make a promise. If Cross plays 80 games in the NHL, $200 to the charity of your choice and I'll do it in your name or in the name of Tommy Cross so you can check on it later.
    Posted by BadHabitude


    Cross hasn't stood out to me in the few times I have seen him play. Still, not ready to make a proclamation about his entire career at this point. Let's wait and see how he makes the transition.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share