Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    I hate the "agitator" designation.  Like it's a role that you look to fill.  Hate it.  And those guys almost never answer the bell against a designated fighter, so what does a goon do to curb their antics?  Nada.  Not sure how they could get to a subjective call on whether a fight was "staged" or not. 

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=433262

    "Yes, I believe a player should get a game misconduct for fighting," Yzerman told The Dreger Report. "We penalize and suspend players for making contact with the head while checking, in an effort to reduce head injuries, yet we still allow fighting."

    When asked if the league and players should stop trying to make fighting safer and focus on banning fighting in general instead, Carolina Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford said, "We've got to get rid of fighting, it has to go."

    "It won't happen overnight, but we need to be leaders, not followers in this area," he explained. "I respect other GMs and their views, but we need to look at this and not just when an incident like last night (Parros) happens."

     

    Right on cue...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=433262

    "Yes, I believe a player should get a game misconduct for fighting," Yzerman told The Dreger Report. "We penalize and suspend players for making contact with the head while checking, in an effort to reduce head injuries, yet we still allow fighting."

    When asked if the league and players should stop trying to make fighting safer and focus on banning fighting in general instead, Carolina Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford said, "We've got to get rid of fighting, it has to go."

    "It won't happen overnight, but we need to be leaders, not followers in this area," he explained. "I respect other GMs and their views, but we need to look at this and not just when an incident like last night (Parros) happens."

     

    Right on cue...

     



    Rutherford has one of the biggest clowns in the league.  Westgarth.  So he really thinks it should go?   How about when someone injuries his star player with a knee on knee like what happened at the worlds. Oh yeah.  Hes a goalie to boot.  Weirdos. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    Kinda surprised Yzerman is so firmly against it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaymiller. Show jaymiller's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    And the last paragraph of the blog ..........

    "Ninety-eight per cent of NHL players polled in 2011-2012 were in favour of keeping fighting in the game and while there's no immediate plan to conduct a new players survey, the overwhelming support to leave things as they are may not change. And while sensitive to Parros' injury, Flyers forward Vincent Lecavalier said Wednesday that if he was asked to vote again, he would vote the same way and believes fighting still has its place."

     

    Didn't think it was that high, but that's a pretty HIGH percentage if you ask me.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to jaymiller's comment:

    And the last paragraph of the blog ..........

    "Ninety-eight per cent of NHL players polled in 2011-2012 were in favour of keeping fighting in the game and while there's no immediate plan to conduct a new players survey, the overwhelming support to leave things as they are may not change. And while sensitive to Parros' injury, Flyers forward Vincent Lecavalier said Wednesday that if he was asked to vote again, he would vote the same way and believes fighting still has its place."

     

    Didn't think it was that high, but that's a pretty HIGH percentage if you ask me.



    i hope it stays at 98. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    Let em fight. But it will result in a Game Misconduct.

    If it happens in the Third Period, they're out for the next game.

    Referees and rules keep players 'honest'

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    and the great mastermind Scotty Bowman also believes fighting should be banned....

    funny that he had guys named Probert, Kocur, and McCarthy, just to name a few, who made it easier for his skilled guys on those cup-winning teams....

    Yzerman was another one who thrived because those guys had his back....

    all this because of a freak accident that occured last night....

    i think this decision should come from those in the trenches....   

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    "i think this decision should come from those in the trenches.... " - days-of-Orr

     

    No the decision will come from the Courts, the Insurance Companies.

     

    Bettman will be a leader or a coward. He will deal with this stupid anomaly of the game - or it will be dealt with for him.

     

    Last night the most nervous guys in the room were Bettman, Daly and their raft of NHL lawyers - Look at the NFL - The very worst thing that can happen to a  professional sports league - other than a death on the field - is the prolonged negative fallout of being be sued by its own players. Sued for not providing a safe workplace.

     

    Parros is a smart guy. When the fog clears, he's gonna be googling 'How To Sue Your Employers for Unsafe Working Conditions." 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    Ok, that's hilarious, gord.  I can picture him with a little bandaid over the 'stache, squinting at his screen....

    That said, you sign on to play a game where highly conditioned, very strong grown men travel at upwards of 30Km/Hr on a surface that is both extremely slippery and hard as concrete with two yards of tempered fibreglass weaponry in their hands and razor sharp blades on their feet, and they're looking to collide, as part of the purpose of the game, with one another...how do you begin to say "safe working conditions" and not laugh?  Oh, and they're wearing body armour that is harder than the side panels on jeep.

    NFL is in deep on the question of concussions because they built a culture where guys would get sent back in not knowing the damage they could be doing to their brains.  A fight?  Pretty sure you know what you're in for.

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to gord11's comment:

    "i think this decision should come from those in the trenches.... " - days-of-Orr

     

    No the decision will come from the Courts, the Insurance Companies.

     

    Bettman will be a leader or a coward. He will deal with this stupid anomaly of the game - or it will be dealt with for him.

     

    Last night the most nervous guys in the room were Bettman, Daly and their raft of NHL lawyers - Look at the NFL - The very worst thing that can happen to a  professional sports league - other than a death on the field - is the prolonged negative fallout of being be sued by its own players. Sued for not providing a safe workplace.

     

    Parros is a smart guy. When the fog clears, he's gonna be googling 'How To Sue Your Employers for Unsafe Working Conditions." 




    actually Parros is a very smart guy and knows what he signed on for when he joined the nhl....

    he knew his hands were going to be used for more than just holding a stick....

    i guess the next time a player lands on his head following a bodycheck, he should sue also....

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

     

    Yup the fighters know what they're in for - and that's called 'consent' - but that, and all of the other impediments to a player-led lawsuit still can't prevent them from happening. And when they do - and they will - The NHL will have to figure out in a hurry what it wants to do . If a group of players thinks the League is responsible for their brain injuries, it's up to the League to prove they aren't. 

    The court will be one of public opinion and no business can withstand that kinda negative publicity (it's doubtful, the League has a billion dollars, like the NFL does, to settle with its players)

     This could be Bettman's undoing. He needs a plan.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    People, people, people - smarten up!

    What's all the fighting about?

    One word: oil.

     

     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    "NFL is in deep on the question of concussions because they built a culture where guys would get sent back in not knowing the damage they could be doing to their brains.  A fight?  Pretty sure you know what you're in for." - bookboy

     

    This is just it. The NHL built the same culture and now with the burgeoning amount of science-based evidence regarding concussions and brain injuries in hockey, with the concerted effort by everyone around the game to try and mitigate if not eliminate concussions through rule changes and equipment suggestions, head injuries have never been more highlighted or scrutinzed, they have never been taken more seriously.

    The likes of Yzerman are merely pointing out inherent hypocrisy in saying you're going to deal with  'the concussion problem' while not addressing the effects of bare-knuckle fist shots to the head (or the danger of one's head smashing on the ice, during a fight).

     

    A fight? Now EVERYONE knows what these guys are in for

     

    It might be - and maybe should be - out of the fighter's hands

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near


    Pretty spirited bout by Iginla tonight.

    Turned him from a bad guy to a hero in about 90 seconds.

    Regarding the Parros thing, good luck banning fighting based on that injury.  It had absolutely nothing to do with fighting. Players fall awkwardly on the ice during play all the time.

    That injury was a better argument for mandatory visors or even cages than banning the supposed "activity" that started it.

    Although if the league eliminated the staged fights or even worse, the ridiculous need to call out players after a hard legal check, I wouldn't miss those at all.  The only play that should have resulted in a fight tonight should have been the dirty crosscheck to Lucic's back.

    And I dont think game misconducts for fights would end them either. Its not like the skating clowns fight 3 times a game.

     

     

     







     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    Oh Gord11 I knew you were going to chime in LOL ... Not going to debate you on fighting AGAIN! Cheers

     
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    Looks like fighting might be up this year. Tons of it in pre-season and so far numerous fights.

    Looks like, dare I say, the enforcers are going down fighting?....

    Okay, that was bad.




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    game 1 in this season showed us everything. Thornton fight...stupid. eliminate it. Goon went after goon. They were both on the ice to fight each other. what's the point? Iginla's fight? great.  Iginla got dumped on a check. he got up and wanted to avenge himself. He asked, his opponent was willing, they fought. great for the game. keep that, get rid of the staged fights. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near


    I like many could do w/out the goon bouts but I love a bout between two angry guys that comes from hard competition. That type of fight will never be removed from the gm. Just my opinion. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to gord11's comment:

    "i think this decision should come from those in the trenches.... " - days-of-Orr

     

    No the decision will come from the Courts, the Insurance Companies.

     

    Bettman will be a leader or a coward. He will deal with this stupid anomaly of the game - or it will be dealt with for him.

     

    Last night the most nervous guys in the room were Bettman, Daly and their raft of NHL lawyers - Look at the NFL - The very worst thing that can happen to a  professional sports league - other than a death on the field - is the prolonged negative fallout of being be sued by its own players. Sued for not providing a safe workplace.

     

    Parros is a smart guy. When the fog clears, he's gonna be googling 'How To Sue Your Employers for Unsafe Working Conditions." 




    Your right the NHL needs to replace that hard ice, what do you suggest they replace it with?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    The existence of fighting in the NHL has been discussed on BDC before.  If one looks at the big four in USA sports, the various leagues have made efforts to reduce concussions.  The primary rationale is the health of the players.  The legal systems and insurance companies actions are a product of the better understanding of concussions (I dislike acronyms).  All of those are basic facts.  The real issue for ownership and the Board of Govenerors in connection with health of the players is the NHL's appeal to a larger spectators audience in the sports market. 

    The sport though needs to clean up the review process for infractions like spearing, butt ending, crosschecking, and illegal hits before the discussion of eliminating fighting takes place.  So Shupe said it best, there will be a consquence for having no fighting.  Injuries will not diminish imo, in fact I would believe the concussion occurences would not diminish drastically. 


    Lastly thinking to last year's thread, why not have discussions with regards to nascar (deaths), MMA (mixed martial arts) restrictions, equistrian injuries, motorcross injuries, etc. Why? I think you know why?

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    You guys want to keep the emotional, spur-of-the-moment, defending a teammate fights, right? But you want to get players like John Scott, Colton Orr, and probably even our very own Shawn Thornton out of the league, right?

    Here's a thought. I haven't looked too much into the exact number of fights for the average goon, but let me throw out the number of....Six. There's no scenario where a legitimately good hockey player who happens to fight a bit (Chara, Iginla, Lucic, etc.) can't keep their fighting majors number under that. That would still allow for them to defend themselves and teammates if necessary. For goon guys like the ones listed above? They have no place in the NHL if they can only fight 5 or 6 times per year.

    What happens if they break this barrier? Suspended for 10-15 games. This idea comes from basketball's rule on technical fouls (I have no idea where they draw the line, I just know there's a rule in place).

    Granted, there are some legitimately good hockey players who fight more than that now (Wayne Simmonds and Ryan Clowe both had 10 fighting majors in 2011-2012), but I'm sure there were a few fights in there that didn't need to happen (staged, to a degree).

    Hopefully this would create a scenario where the "skating clowns" and punching bags would be out of the league in a short period of time.

    "6" doesn't have to be the magic number here. It could be higher or lower; I just have no idea where the line should be drawn. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to TheGuyWithDaThing's comment:

    You guys want to keep the emotional, spur-of-the-moment, defending a teammate fights, right? But you want to get players like John Scott, Colton Orr, and probably even our very own Shawn Thornton out of the league, right?

    Here's a thought. I haven't looked too much into the exact number of fights for the average goon, but let me throw out the number of....Six. There's no scenario where a legitimately good hockey player who happens to fight a bit (Chara, Iginla, Lucic, etc.) can't keep their fighting majors number under that. That would still allow for them to defend themselves and teammates if necessary. For goon guys like the ones listed above? They have no place in the NHL if they can only fight 5 or 6 times per year.

    What happens if they break this barrier? Suspended for 10-15 games. This idea comes from basketball's rule on technical fouls (I have no idea where they draw the line, I just know there's a rule in place).

    Granted, there are some legitimately good hockey players who fight more than that now (Wayne Simmonds and Ryan Clowe both had 10 fighting majors in 2011-2012), but I'm sure there were a few fights in there that didn't need to happen (staged, to a degree).

    Hopefully this would create a scenario where the "skating clowns" and punching bags would be out of the league in a short period of time.

    "6" doesn't have to be the magic number here. It could be higher or lower; I just have no idea where the line should be drawn. 



    I dont know either.  Imagine being on number 4 and something happens and you dont answer the bell.  Or a back to back where someone like orr takes lucic out for the second gm bc of a fight.   Same thing would apply if it were just a game misconduct.  Someone would goat lucic into a game.  Leave it the way it is.  Give refs the option to get the goons outta the game by calling it a skating clown penalty and fine the team and player.   2 perfect examples of real and staged.  Iggy. Very real with anger.  ST staged with no benefit.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    I think fighting will always be part of the game, over time you'll just see less and less enforcers doing it.




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Cue the Bugle Corps: The end of Fighting is Near

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I think fighting will always be part of the game, over time you'll just see less and less enforcers doing it.






    I keep thinking the same.  Then teams keep bringing them in.  Look at the leafs, they have 2.  Ottawa has Neil, felt the need to bring in Kassian.  Montreal had Prust-White and brought in Parros.  Everyteam but Detroit and possibly the Caps have a legit Clown.    They should grandfather goons.  Have a skill test.   Gotta pass to be considered for the NHL, they is applied from past resume.  

     
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