David or Carl?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    David or Carl?

    Can the Bruins keep both of these centers?  Both are UFA's after next season. Both are 28 years old.  Both are going to command raises.  Can the Bruins go into the season with both of them without extensions?  Obviously Krejci is the much more proven commodity.  However, he is also the greater cost.  What do you think Krejci would take? $6.5, More or Less?  What about the one-eyed swede?  Would $3.0 million be enough?  Has Spooner shown enough that he makes one of them expendable?  PC has his work cut out for him, with 4 other UFA's Boychuk, Paille, Campbell, and McQuaid. I only see 2 of the 6 remaining with the team because of the cap constraints. What are your thoughts?


    Street hockey is great for kids. It’s energetic, competitive, and skillful. And best of all it keeps them off the street.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    Krecji will get a contract similar to Bergeron. Soderberg will move on....he is a third liner after all and will get second liner money from some other team.

    Spooner has not scored yet in the NHL so he is still a big "if." This year, the final year of his EL will be a  "show me you can do it" year in which he will get an opportunity with the big club.

    Boychuk will be traded....McQuaid injured. Much will ride on the progress of Morrow in Providence to determine what to do on the back end.

    Campbell and Paille are spare parts but could be retained should no prospects be ready to replace them.

    All bets are off if PC pulls the trigger on a blockbuster this summer.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    "PC has his work cut out for him, with 4 other UFA's Boychuk, Paille, Campbell, and McQuaid. I only see 2 of the 6 remaining with the team because of the cap constraints. What are your thoughts?"

     

    The cap will go up next summer so I don't know about just being able to keep 2 of those 6 players. I don't ever see Paille being in any other uniform other than the Bruins, his play in the 2013 SCF was phenomenal. Campbell is replaceable unless he wants a pay cut to stay in Boston.

    McQuaid has a very cap friendly contract and I don't see having to pay Adam a lot to retain him, Morrow is not the same type of defenseman. Miller is not Adam's replacement just yet, as some might think, as he failed miserably during the Canadien series. McQuiad was missed in the playoffs.

    Soderberg's lose will hurt there is no doubt as he is a 2nd line center playing on the 3rd line. He will get a nice offer from another team to play much more minutes. Chiarelli might have to package him at the deadline next March to get something for him. That would be very tough if Carl is playing well again, which I expect.

    I don't know how the Bruins are going to replace Boychuk's hitting prowess and toughness during the playoffs next season. But in the end having a 1st and 3rd winger that can puck in the net is the price you pay.

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to jmwalters' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Krecji will get a contract similar to Bergeron. Soderberg will move on....he is a third liner after all and will get second liner money from some other team.

    Spooner has not scored yet in the NHL so he is still a big "if." This year, the final year of his EL will be a  "show me you can do it" year in which he will get an opportunity with the big club.

    Boychuk will be traded....McQuaid injured. Much will ride on the progress of Morrow in Providence to determine what to do on the back end.

    Campbell and Paille are spare parts but could be retained should no prospects be ready to replace them.

    All bets are off if PC pulls the trigger on a blockbuster this summer.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So do you think that PC should just get what he can out of Carl and let him walk at the end of the year?  Or should he move him  before the season starts or at the trade deadline in order to get something for him?  At only $1 million and tight against the ceiling, probably makes sense to have him play out the string.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    You can't cheap out on all positions every time.  Great players get paid, and without great players, the team is average.

    And no, Spooner hasn't shown enough to make either expendable.  He hasn't even scored one NHL goal.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You can't cheap out on all positions every time.  Great players get paid, and without great players, the team is average.

    And no, Spooner hasn't shown enough to make either expendable.  He hasn't even scored one NHL goal.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. I think Spooner WILL be good, but he's not running anyone out of here yet.

    Also, even though Soderberg is a natural center (and lets face it, he played at his best when he was moved to center) do you think rather than moving him/letting him hit free agency and replacing him with another center, they would just move him the LW on the 2nd or 3rd line? 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    McQuaid is a bottom 4 d who can't stay healthy, so I would have him very low on the priority list if at all. Campbell would be just ahead of him. Time to start getting a little offense out of that fourth line.




     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You can't cheap out on all positions every time.  Great players get paid, and without great players, the team is average.

    And no, Spooner hasn't shown enough to make either expendable.  He hasn't even scored one NHL goal.

    [/QUOTE]


    So are you suggesting signing both to extensions for around $9 -$10 miilion?  Is $16.5 million for top 3 centers good value?  Doesn't sound so bad to me, but does it also make for helicopter lines?  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    McQuaid is a bottom 4 d who can't stay healthy, so I would have him very low on the priority list if at all. Campbell would be just ahead of him. Time to start getting a little offense out of that fourth line.




    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah I love McQuaid, and they certainly could've used him this postseason, but the guy just cant seem to get a break anymore.  He is so injury prone now.  

    I agree completely with the 4th line comment too.  Campbell and Paille are great defensively, but they need to put together a line that is a little more balanced in my opinion.  No fourth line is going to be an absolute scoring threat, but that doesnt mean they cant bring 1 (or 2) guy(s) in that can contribute a little bit more offensively and have a more effective forecheck.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to MeanE's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    So do you think that PC should just get what he can out of Carl and let him walk at the end of the year?  Or should he move him  before the season starts or at the trade deadline in order to get something for him?  At only $1 million and tight against the ceiling, probably makes sense to have him play out the string.

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on the situation PC finds the team in come March and what offers other teams are giving him for Yeti.

    If the best that can be had is a second rounder or low level prospect PC might just as well keep him around until next summer.

    I don't see PC moving him before the season starts unless he is part of a blockbuster....

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    McQuaid is a bottom 4 d who can't stay healthy, so I would have him very low on the priority list if at all. Campbell would be just ahead of him. Time to start getting a little offense out of that fourth line.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know about offense, but (oh, the horror of modern stats) possession, yes.  You really saw it against the Canadiens, but it was true all year when I think about it - that line could not control the puck.  The biggest lack was the ability to complete a pass so that they could move up the ice and establish a forecheck and cycle that would wear down the opposition and generate energy for the rest of the club.  They were playing TimBit hockey - get to the puck, whack it toward the opponent's end, chase it.  There are a lot of things to like about Campbell, and he has shown in the past that he can be more of a third line grinding C who can play a bit, but you just don't see it from him very often on that line.  He needs a guy with some offensive moxie to replace Thornton, and maybe that makes a difference for him?
    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    The 4th lines duties are to spell the top lines, for rest, so they can go all out in a game they might be tied or down in later in the contest. If you replace Campbell and Paille, with Kelly on his way out, you had better have some good PK replacements.

    I think Soup is replaceable but I don't think Paille is at the moment.

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Soup is replaceable but I don't think Paille is at the moment.

     [/QUOTE]


    Paille definitely has more intangibles yes. Hopefully some prospects can handle a spot or two on the 4th line....much like Marchand did his first season. That would be ideal.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to jmwalters' comment:[QUOTE] I think Soup is replaceable but I don't think Paille is at the moment.  [/QUOTE]

    Paille definitely has more intangibles yes. Hopefully some prospects can handle a spot or two on the 4th line....much like Marchand did his first season. That would be ideal. [/QUOTE]


    Not a better place for Florek and Fraser to learn there grinder game.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to MeanE's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So are you suggesting signing both to extensions for around $9 -$10 miilion?  Is $16.5 million for top 3 centers good value?  Doesn't sound so bad to me, but does it also make for helicopter lines?  

    [/QUOTE]

    They call this "putting words in someone's mouth".  

    Bad form.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    McQuaid is a bottom 4 d who can't stay healthy, so I would have him very low on the priority list if at all. Campbell would be just ahead of him. Time to start getting a little offense out of that fourth line.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know about offense, but (oh, the horror of modern stats) possession, yes.  You really saw it against the Canadiens, but it was true all year when I think about it - that line could not control the puck.  The biggest lack was the ability to complete a pass so that they could move up the ice and establish a forecheck and cycle that would wear down the opposition and generate energy for the rest of the club.  They were playing TimBit hockey - get to the puck, whack it toward the opponent's end, chase it.  There are a lot of things to like about Campbell, and he has shown in the past that he can be more of a third line grinding C who can play a bit, but you just don't see it from him very often on that line.  He needs a guy with some offensive moxie to replace Thornton, and maybe that makes a difference for him?
    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]

    That is well said, I cannot tell you how many times either Campbell or Thornton would make a pass from the defensive to Paille in the neutral zone and either the pass was off or Paille couldn't coral it. Sometimes it would be the first pass out of the defensive zone. Does anyone know where to look to see how many times they turned the puck over in the Montreal series? I know there are TO stats for each individual player but I don't think it tells the whole story.




     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]



    Not a better place for Florek and Fraser to learn there grinder game.

    [/QUOTE]

    True...I could see those two as well. I wish Florek had more snarl though. He's a big guy. That's why Fraser is a good bet.

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    They call this "putting words in someone's mouth".  

    Bad form.

    [/QUOTE]

    So you weren't suggesting Krecji get Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin money? :)

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    Soderberg over DK anytime ....Soderberg is improving game after game ....Krejci could be traded this summer...I like Soderberg's physical presence , he will get a fantastic season 2014-15 .....

     

     Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011 & 3 more Cups by 2020

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    What is Soderberg worth? $4?  And I think Krejci will most likely accept that there's now a "Bergeron cap" in Boston, and no forward is going to make more than Patrice for the next few years at least.  So say the two can be had for $10.5M.  That's $4.25M more than they currently make, which is going to make it tricky to manage the Cap next year and for a few years after.  If you pencil in Smith at $2.5M (I'd rather estimate high) and say they rebuild the fourth line for $3.5M total (an increase of $600K over what Cap Geek currently lists for Campbell and Paille), that's a total of about $7.35M more than what they have on the books for 10 forwards right now: about $45M for the forward group without carrying a spare.  That's with Savard in and no Iginla, but leave that question for now.

    On D, I don't think Boychuk and McQuaid are the issue.  Neither guy, to my mind, is a risk to go anywhere for big money.  For Boychuk, look no farther than Volchenkov and Seidenberg.  Especially AV.  Freight train, shot blocker, strong as a horse - but at $4M for NJ, not worth the cash because he brings nothing on O and he's starting to break down.  Seidenberg is only slightly older than JB, contributes more offensively, and only makes $4M.  Boychuk is at $3.37M already, so I don't see his raise being more than $700K because I don't think he'll get to UFA to test the water.  McQuaid might not be back because he gets supplanted or dealt before the end of the year, but barring a huge season, how does he make a claim for more than the $1.6 he's making now?

    The real salary pressure on D will come from Hamilton and Krug.  Hamilton's EL deal expires, and it looks for all the world like he could be looking for Pietrangelo money if he progresses the same amount this year as he did last year.  I'm hoping for a bridge deal at $3.5, but I won't be surprised if it's 5 at $5+M.  Krug will likely be between $2-3M this year depending on how long a bridge he gets.  Add that all up with a bridge for Hamilton rather than the big deal and $2.5M for Krug, it's about $6M more than what CapGeek has for the D group now - with Miller as a spare:  $23.5M give or take some change. 

    That's $68.5M for the roster, plus $8M for the goalie position, for $76.5M.  The Cap would have to rise $5.5M for that to happen next year.  Of course, they could put an EL guy into the lineup in place of Savard (meaning no high profile RW for Krejci) and save about $3M that way, and a $2.5M increase seems like a more reasonable assumption.

    All of this assumes no new money comes on board this year, too - so no bonus overage from an overager like Iginla, and no deal with Marchand that increases the salary for next year.  Etc.

    I think they play out the string, try to get Soderberg signed as soon as they have some projection of what the Cap will look like, and then deal with the Cap in the off-season.  Be good to see what happens with Soderberg playing with Lucic and whoever on the top line for a stretch just to see if he can really be the guy.  I have my doubts.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The 4th lines duties are to spell the top lines, for rest, so they can go all out in a game they might be tied or down in later in the contest. If you replace Campbell and Paille, with Kelly on his way out, you had better have some good PK replacements.

    I think Soup is replaceable but I don't think Paille is at the moment.

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

    [/QUOTE]

    I wasn't necessarily suggesting a complete turnover, just staying within that bubble.  Paille is a palatable commodity at $1.3M.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeanE's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So are you suggesting signing both to extensions for around $9 -$10 miilion?  Is $16.5 million for top 3 centers good value?  Doesn't sound so bad to me, but does it also make for helicopter lines?  

    [/QUOTE]

    They call this "putting words in someone's mouth".  

    Bad form.

    [/QUOTE]


    Bad form?  I am trying to understand what you were saying.  Thus the question marks.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What is Soderberg worth? $4?  And I think Krejci will most likely accept that there's now a "Bergeron cap" in Boston, and no forward is going to make more than Patrice for the next few years at least.  So say the two can be had for $10.5M.  That's $4.25M more than they currently make, which is going to make it tricky to manage the Cap next year and for a few years after.  If you pencil in Smith at $2.5M (I'd rather estimate high) and say they rebuild the fourth line for $3.5M total (an increase of $600K over what Cap Geek currently lists for Campbell and Paille), that's a total of about $7.35M more than what they have on the books for 10 forwards right now: about $45M for the forward group without carrying a spare.  That's with Savard in and no Iginla, but leave that question for now.

    On D, I don't think Boychuk and McQuaid are the issue.  Neither guy, to my mind, is a risk to go anywhere for big money.  For Boychuk, look no farther than Volchenkov and Seidenberg.  Especially AV.  Freight train, shot blocker, strong as a horse - but at $4M for NJ, not worth the cash because he brings nothing on O and he's starting to break down.  Seidenberg is only slightly older than JB, contributes more offensively, and only makes $4M.  Boychuk is at $3.37M already, so I don't see his raise being more than $700K because I don't think he'll get to UFA to test the water.  McQuaid might not be back because he gets supplanted or dealt before the end of the year, but barring a huge season, how does he make a claim for more than the $1.6 he's making now?

    The real salary pressure on D will come from Hamilton and Krug.  Hamilton's EL deal expires, and it looks for all the world like he could be looking for Pietrangelo money if he progresses the same amount this year as he did last year.  I'm hoping for a bridge deal at $3.5, but I won't be surprised if it's 5 at $5+M.  Krug will likely be between $2-3M this year depending on how long a bridge he gets.  Add that all up with a bridge for Hamilton rather than the big deal and $2.5M for Krug, it's about $6M more than what CapGeek has for the D group now - with Miller as a spare:  $23.5M give or take some change. 

    That's $68.5M for the roster, plus $8M for the goalie position, for $76.5M.  The Cap would have to rise $5.5M for that to happen next year.  Of course, they could put an EL guy into the lineup in place of Savard (meaning no high profile RW for Krejci) and save about $3M that way, and a $2.5M increase seems like a more reasonable assumption.

    All of this assumes no new money comes on board this year, too - so no bonus overage from an overager like Iginla, and no deal with Marchand that increases the salary for next year.  Etc.

    I think they play out the string, try to get Soderberg signed as soon as they have some projection of what the Cap will look like, and then deal with the Cap in the off-season.  Be good to see what happens with Soderberg playing with Lucic and whoever on the top line for a stretch just to see if he can really be the guy.  I have my doubts.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

    [/QUOTE]

    Well thought out Book.  Sounds pretty reasonable.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lex44. Show Lex44's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    In response to StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Soderberg over DK anytime ....Soderberg is improving game after game ....Krejci could be traded this summer...I like Soderberg's physical presence , he will get a fantastic season 2014-15 .....

     

     Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011 & 3 more Cups by 2020

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the big question here. How good is Soderburg?  If he was as good as D.K. It would be foolish to trade him now. He won't have D.K's value in the trade market until he puts up the numbers of a top scorer. In Claude's system of no changes he wasn't given the opportunity to see how well he could do with the front line players .Hes stuck behind Bergy and D.K.he just needs a chance.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: David or Carl?

    I think (guessing here) that they resign Krejci and Spooner develops into a role that makes Soderberg obsolete.  We all love what Soda turned into this year, but he would probably be even more desirable on a team that needs help at center.  I think a trade will make sense for him, and you've gotta like that he could bring some thing useful back.  

    The Soderberg experience has already been like finding a $50 in an old pairs of jeans on the way to Goodwill, and if that $50 can be used to bring in something even more useful, that would be icing on the cake.

    Spooner will find the net and the Bruins will stay deep at center.  A greater concern will be balancing out the defensive corps as Chara is no longer capable of playing like your #1 and #2 at the same time.

     
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