Did our best line become our worst???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Did our best line become our worst???

    Krecji Last night -- 2 assists, minus 1

    Got me thinking of the value that line is bringing to the team.  Nitpicking for sure given the tear the Bruins are on, but figured it would be a good topic for discussion.  Last year that was the line that we looked for to score goals and win games for us.  Krecji, was our #1 center, Lucic our #1 goal scorer, and Horton who came in here with expectations of 30 goals/year.  Now, even with the scoring back on track, they still lag behind the rest of the team in terms of +/-.

    I know there are some who are going to completely dismiss the plus/minus stat, but the fact is in last nights game, even though Horton scored two goals, his line got scored on three times.

    By line:
    KHL  91 points, plus 14
    BMS 106 points, plus 87
    KPP 67 points, plus 54
    CTP 28 points, plus 18

    Even the 4th line is doing better.  Are they THAT bad defensively and we just haven't been noticing because of all the winning?  I don't remember them being such a liability on defense
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mb30. Show mb30's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    In Response to Did our best line become our worst???:
    [QUOTE]Krecji Last night -- 2 assists, minus 1 Got me thinking of the value that line is bringing to the team.  Nitpicking for sure given the tear the Bruins are on, but figured it would be a good topic for discussion.  Last year that was the line that we looked for to score goals and win games for us.  Krecji, was our #1 center, Lucic our #1 goal scorer, and Horton who came in here with expectations of 30 goals/year.  Now, even with the scoring back on track, they still lag behind the rest of the team in terms of +/-. I know there are some who are going to completely dismiss the plus/minus stat, but the fact is in last nights game, even though Horton scored two goals, his line got scored on three times. By line: KHL  91 points, plus 14 BMS 106 points, plus 87 KPP 67 points, plus 54 CTP 28 points, plus 18 Even the 4th line is doing better.  Are they THAT bad defensively and we just haven't been noticing because of all the winning?  I don't remember them being such a liability on defense
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]

    Chappy, they had a really rough start to the season so I wouldn't look too much into it at this point.  Their line has been on fire for the past 10-15 games or so, and it all starts with Krejci starting to find his game, and Horton getting back into form.  Lucic has been the consistent factor to the line so far in the season, but now that Krejci and Horton are finding their stride this line is going to be far more dangerous from here on out.  Look for that +/- number to continue climbing up from now until the end of the season.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    That's kind of what I was getting at.  The problem isn't that they aren't scoring, because they are.  I think both Lucic and Horton are on pace for 25-30 goals which is what you would hope for.  The problem is that they seem to be the that is on the ice when we get scored on.  They are clearly on the ice for more goals against than any of our other lines -- by a long shot

    Last nights game was case in point.  You hear that Horton got 2 goals, and DK 2 assists, and then notice that they were both minus 1 for the game.  To me that means they did more bad then good --- if you remove their effect from the game, we win 3-0, instead of 5-3

    Thorton is the only player on the team with a lower plus minus than DK and Horton -- which to me means that something is off.

    Tough to say this far into the season that it is the slow start.  Almost half way through the season stats start to mean something
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    Love Lucic and Horton but they need to play with more emphasis on defense and  discipline. No offense guys.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    I also think these guys have contributed alot on the PP. Not looking it up but I think they have contributed more on the PP than other lines which would effect the +/- as well.

    Lucic has beena  beast on the PP this year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mb30. Show mb30's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    In Response to Re: Did our best line become our worst???:
    [QUOTE]That's kind of what I was getting at.  The problem isn't that they aren't scoring, because they are.  I think both Lucic and Horton are on pace for 25-30 goals which is what you would hope for.  The problem is that they seem to be the that is on the ice when we get scored on.  They are clearly on the ice for more goals against than any of our other lines -- by a long shot Last nights game was case in point.  You hear that Horton got 2 goals, and DK 2 assists, and then notice that they were both minus 1 for the game.  To me that means they did more bad then good --- if you remove their effect from the game, we win 3-0, instead of 5-3 Thorton is the only player on the team with a lower plus minus than DK and Horton -- which to me means that something is off. Tough to say this far into the season that it is the slow start.  Almost half way through the season stats start to mean something
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]

    Chappy, I see your point but my point is that most of the minus's that they've been out there for were in that first 15 game stretch of the season.  It's not like the line is a minus.. they're still a plus 14 and they have been trending upward over the two months.  We really don't have a "worst line".  We have 4 good lines.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    Even looking at last night's game, the culprits are not the forwards, but the defensive pairings, especially Corvo, that they play with. recognizing that the D pairings are not consistent, it is still a 5 man effort. In addition, Bergeron is a monster at both ends of the ice, and Seguin is picking up his defensive capabilities more often than not; Kelly's line is also a full sheet skating and defensive line; Campbell's line is not intended to be offensive, while Kreji's line is focused on the offensive side. Sometimes stats don't tell the entire story.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    In Response to Re: Did our best line become our worst???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Did our best line become our worst??? : Chappy, I see your point but my point is that most of the minus's that they've been out there for were in that first 15 game stretch of the season.  It's not like the line is a minus.. they're still a plus 14 and they have been trending upward over the two months.  We really don't have a "worst line".  We have 4 good lines.
    Posted by mb30[/QUOTE]

    "worst" is a relative term, so yes we have a "worst" line even if all four lines are good-excellent.  We do not have a bad line.

    Again, this isn't to say that they are bad by any stretch of the imagination, but more to point out that although they can score some goals, they are by far the worst line defensively on the team -- to the point where they get scored on almost as much as they score -- which says a lot for a team that is blowing the league away in goal differential

    Similar to the Kessel knock -- how valuable is all that scoring when you don't play defense?

    Don't get me wrong, I love the whole team and everybody on that line, but I am surprised and disapointed that half way through the season our once "first" line has a worse plus minus than our fourth line -- with Horts and Krecji at a mere plus 3.  Half way through the season its time to stop blaming things on the slow start.  We've played almost thirty games since the 3-7 start, and these guys are the only ones who haven't been able to execute defensively
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karl-Hungus. Show Karl-Hungus's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    i noticed horton was -1 too despite two goals.  those are dollar phil kessel numbers! 

    i wouldn't worry about it.  tuukka made some really nice saves in the first period when the khl line wasn't on the ice.   
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    Wait a minute, all of you. Did you notice that all three Wpg goals were deflected once, and one was deflected twice, before they went in?

    I'm sure Krejci, Horton and Lucic cannot be faulted for that. I can't think of any player, past or present, who could defend against that.

    This is an ocassion where you have to read between the numbers, and not take them for gospel.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LordByron77. Show LordByron77's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    Would think that the KHL line pair against other teams top lines most games. That alone explains some of the discrepancies in the plus/minus

    I don't care how good you are, not gonna stop all goals from being scored.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    They are not bad defensively, they are great defensively. That is why they match up against the Crosbys, Littles and Sedins of the world.  They will be scored on because good opposing players score, that's life. Adam McQuaid had a fantastic +/- last year because CJ was careful never to put him on against top players. When looked at in that way a high +/- could possibly be looked at as a bad thing.  But even with the tough match-ups, the Krejci +/- is trending upward.  Just a few weeks ago DK was -8 hampered by an early injury and possibly distracted by contract talks.  Now he is +3. That means he is averaging about +1 per game during that time period. Not too shabby.  +/- is a record of offence and defense, but is only ever of any use when used in context. If you watch that line play, you know that Krejci is an excellent two-way player, Horton back-checks with the same passion he drives to the net to score, and all three are seldom caught out of position.  They are also outstanding at keeping opponents bottled in their own end, and as we know, the puck must leave your defensive zone for you to score.

    In Response to Did our best line become our worst???:
    [QUOTE]Krecji Last night -- 2 assists, minus 1 Got me thinking of the value that line is bringing to the team.  Nitpicking for sure given the tear the Bruins are on, but figured it would be a good topic for discussion.  Last year that was the line that we looked for to score goals and win games for us.  Krecji, was our #1 center, Lucic our #1 goal scorer, and Horton who came in here with expectations of 30 goals/year.  Now, even with the scoring back on track, they still lag behind the rest of the team in terms of +/-. I know there are some who are going to completely dismiss the plus/minus stat, but the fact is in last nights game, even though Horton scored two goals, his line got scored on three times. By line: KHL  91 points, plus 14 BMS 106 points, plus 87 KPP 67 points, plus 54 CTP 28 points, plus 18 Even the 4th line is doing better.  Are they THAT bad defensively and we just haven't been noticing because of all the winning?  I don't remember them being such a liability on defense
    Posted by Chappy28[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Did our best line become our worst???

    This team has the most goals for.

    The team has the least goals against.

    This team is tied for most wins in the NHL

    Let's call out a few players for scoring badly in a meaningless stat.

    Lucic has 32 points in 38 games.  That fool better start playing some defense.
     
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